Possible Father/Son in 2014

[WaynesWorld19]

Quick Question:
If there is a player that qualifies for father son, do you have to take him in his draft eligible year, or could you say wait 3 years and have him play SANFL rather than clog our list

Reason: Ayce Cordy is a Bulldogs father son ...been on the list 5 YEARS, and is only ;looking likely to be ready now .....waste of a list spot for 5 years?

 

[Rory Walkerfield]

Quick Question:
If there is a player that qualifies for father son, do you have to take him in his draft eligible year, or could you say wait 3 years and have him play SANFL rather than clog our list

Reason: Ayce Cordy is a Bulldogs father son ...been on the list 5 YEARS, and is only ;looking likely to be ready now .....waste of a list spot for 5 years?

Whilst I assume a player has to nominate for the draft and therefore if they didn't nominate for a few years then so be it, I'd also assume the AFL would do some draft tampering investigation and also look poorly on you if the kid tried to join you for training (which I'm pretty sure you need afl permission for non squad members to train with you).

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Quick Question:
If there is a player that qualifies for father son, do you have to take him in his draft eligible year, or could you say wait 3 years and have him play SANFL rather than clog our list

Reason: Ayce Cordy is a Bulldogs father son ...been on the list 5 YEARS, and is only ;looking likely to be ready now .....waste of a list spot for 5 years?

I believe a club can draft a player as a father son at any time. The window to draft a player with the father son, doesn't close.

Steven Morris at Richmond was a mature aged father son selection but saying that, the club also runs the risk of other clubs taking him as he can still nominate for that draft.

 

[WaynesWorld19]

I believe a club can draft a player as a father son at any time. The window to draft a player with the father son, doesn't close.

Steven Morris at Richmond was a mature aged father son selection but saying that, the club also runs the risk of other clubs taking him as he can still nominate for that draft.

Did Morris go as Father Son to Richmond??

 

[alex_is_on_fire]

Did Morris go as Father Son to Richmond??

Yes.

I strongly believe so.

 

[LiquidCrow]

Did Morris go as Father Son to Richmond??

Thought Morris was prelisted by GWS and traded on. Remember reading somewhere he'd been overlooked as a Richmond F/S selection a few years earlier.

 

[Vader]

Quick Question:
If there is a player that qualifies for father son, do you have to take him in his draft eligible year, or could you say wait 3 years and have him play SANFL rather than clog our list

Reason: Ayce Cordy is a Bulldogs father son ...been on the list 5 YEARS, and is only ;looking likely to be ready now .....waste of a list spot for 5 years?

Players remain eligible for F/S selection until the first time they are drafted.

 

[Elder van Berlo]

Thought Morris was prelisted by GWS and traded on. Remember reading somewhere he'd been overlooked as a Richmond F/S selection a few years earlier.

This is right. Wasn't a F/S selection.

 

[Apsaalooke]

I was talking about his media career not his football career.

Now that I agree with

 

[Apsaalooke]

But neither did john Platten with Carlton, Steven Kerhanan with Melbourne, Peter Mötley with footsgray, Andrew Jarman with Fitzroy (I believe) abd they all allegedly received payments from those clubs.

It's common knowledge that Carlton gave john Platten $10,000 to sign so e contract in like 1982 or something like that. Never played a game for the blues.

I've heard stories where that has happened to a few players in the 80's

It was all a bit messy then, but I'm pretty sure the under the table fees were for signings or pre-signings rather than being drafted where the player had no choice.
John Platten had a pre-contract agreement with Hawthorn but Carlton tried to lure him with more money until Hawthorn took them to court. McDermott and both Jarmans were drafted to Fitzroy at different times but never moved there, and I don't know about Kernahan or Motley (who would arguably have been the best of the lot if not for that tragic accident)

 

[PKnox]

Quick Question:
If there is a player that qualifies for father son, do you have to take him in his draft eligible year, or could you say wait 3 years and have him play SANFL rather than clog our list

Reason: Ayce Cordy is a Bulldogs father son ...been on the list 5 YEARS, and is only ;looking likely to be ready now .....waste of a list spot for 5 years?

If you were an 18 year old kid, would you forgo $80-$100k per year for a few years just so your father's former club can save some money? Would Ayce Cordy be developing the way he has been over the last few years if he hadn't been drafted in 2008?

 

[cmndstab]

Realistically, you can't (and wouldn't) ask the kid to sit out the draft. I know it happened a couple of times in the mid-90s but not anymore.

If you want to pick him up in a later year you have to hope that no club bids for him, then choose not to take him anyway, then hope he gets through the draft unselected, and take him next year. I'm not sure if you still have f/s rights to him at that stage though (Vader seems to think you do, and he's probably right). Of course, there's always the risk someone will take him for cheap (like us taking Kelly this year as a rookie after Collingwood neglected to select him), which realistically some club will do if the kid is actually any good.


As with any player, you have to weigh up whether it's worth having him on the list if he's going to take five years to develop. With a ruckman you probably wouldn't mind giving a low pick for that, if you're relatively confident he'll make it, but didn't the Bulldogs give up a first rounder or something for Cordy? There's long-term planning and all, but you'd want a quicker return than that I'd think.

 

[Marty64]

Of course, there's always the risk someone will take him for cheap (like us taking Kelly this year as a rookie after Collingwood neglected to select him), which realistically some club will do if the kid is actually any good..

I think Collingwood wanted him but hoped he would slide to their last pick, hoping to avoid a bidding war came back to bite them...

The odds are against you though at that end of the draft, although a few gems show up.

 

[Vader]

Just to clarify my previous statement..

If an F/S eligible player nominates for the draft, then the procedure is as follows:

1. The club can nominate to select him in the ND and the usual bidding process takes place (assuming the player agrees to the nomination).
2. If the club does not nominate him in the ND, then he is available to be drafted by the other clubs.
3. If the player is not selected in the ND, then the club gets a second bite at the cherry, with the option of nominating him as a F/S in the RD (there is no bidding process for the RD - the player is selected with the club's last selection in the draft).
4. If the club does not nominate him in the RD, then he is, once again, available to be drafted by the other clubs.
5. If the player is not selected in the RD then he remains eligible for F/S selection when the whole cycle begins again the following year (noting that draft nomination is valid for 3 years).

If an F/S eligible player chooses not to nominate for the draft in the first year of eligibility they remain eligible if/when they choose to nominate in the future.

Note that any club attempting to induce a player not to nominate for the draft would be likely to be busted for "draft tampering".

 

[WaynesWorld19]

Just to clarify my previous statement..

If an F/S eligible player nominates for the draft, then the procedure is as follows:

1. The club can nominate to select him in the ND and the usual bidding process takes place (assuming the player agrees to the nomination).
2. If the club does not nominate him in the ND, then he is available to be drafted by the other clubs.
3. If the player is not selected in the ND, then the club gets a second bite at the cherry, with the option of nominating him as a F/S in the RD (there is no bidding process for the RD - the player is selected with the club's last selection in the draft).
4. If the club does not nominate him in the RD, then he is, once again, available to be drafted by the other clubs.
5. If the player is not selected in the RD then he remains eligible for F/S selection when the whole cycle begins again the following year (noting that draft nomination is valid for 3 years).

If an F/S eligible player chooses not to nominate for the draft in the first year of eligibility they remain eligible if/when they choose to nominate in the future.

Note that any club attempting to induce a player not to nominate for the draft would be likely to be busted for "draft tampering".

This is the key point .....but is it draft tampering if he's a father son and you ask him to delay nominating for a year or two ......probably is

nothing to do about money, but why do a Mike Smith and tie your list up with a non producing list member for 5 years such as Cordy ......play him the SANFL until he develops or don't waste a list spot

 

[LiquidCrow]

This is the key point .....but is it draft tampering if he's a father son and you ask him to delay nominating for a year or two ......probably is

nothing to do about money, but why do a Mike Smith and tie your list up with a non producing list member for 5 years such as Cordy ......play him the SANFL until he develops or don't waste a list spot

Cordy is an interesting one, as I don't think he's come as far along as the Bulldogs have hoped. He was drafted at pick #14 from the same draft year as McKernan, who have had a similar unremarkable career to date. Obviously the F/S link doesn't prevent another club from pouncing: at the time the Saints were prepared to bid their first rounder on Cordy forcing the WB's hand.

 

[Kane McGoodwin]

This is the key point .....but is it draft tampering if he's a father son and you ask him to delay nominating for a year or two ......probably is

nothing to do about money, but why do a Mike Smith and tie your list up with a non producing list member for 5 years such as Cordy ......play him the SANFL until he develops or don't waste a list spot

If you didn't think a FS player is worth putting on the main list because they will take a while to develop, then look to rookie them instead, with the risk another club may draft them.

 

[weneverland]

If an F/S eligible player chooses not to nominate for the draft in the first year of eligibility they remain eligible if/when they choose to nominate in the future.

Note that any club attempting to induce a player not to nominate for the draft would be likely to be busted for "draft tampering".

Didn't Port get accused of paying a bunch of players not to nominate for the draft the year before they entered the competition. They were the darlings of the AFL so no penalty there.

 

[Vader]

Didn't Port get accused of paying a bunch of players not to nominate for the draft the year before they entered the competition. They were the darlings of the AFL so no penalty there.

They did... and should have been busted accordingly. I guess the AFL were lenient because they knew that Port had been screwed over with their pathetic start up concession - note that GWS & GC received far, far more concessions than Port.

Two points, in response to the posts above.

1. Inducing any player to stand out of the draft, whether eligible for F/S selection or not, is a clear cut case of draft tampering.
2. Surely we would be better off developing the player ourselves, rather than waiting for the much slower process of having them develop on their own, in the SANFL. AFL clubs are able to provide a full time training environment, with professional staff to direct and assist them in all aspects of their needs & development. Surely that is better than having them struggle in the part-time environment of a SANFL club, with far fewer staff & resources at their disposal?

 

[DJ75]

They did... and should have been busted accordingly. I guess the AFL were lenient because they knew that Port had been screwed over with their pathetic start up concession - note that GWS & GC received far, far more concessions than Port.

I've had a lot of fun with Port supporters over this. In fact I have thoroughly enjoyed pointing out to them that this year will be the first year in their history that their on field team isn't compromised by cheating.
Between the cheating they did by paying players to stay out of the draft to the ill-gotten father-son who didn't actually qualify (MegaHead Ebert) this is the first year without any of those players on the park.

Of course they did tank to get their current star players and get the AFL to bank roll them while they did it....

 

[WeeBlake]

F/S is only an advantage if you can get a player for cheap. Anything past 2nd round is a crap shoot anyway, so F/S is basically meaningless for fringe players.

 

[Mike Smyth]

Didn't Port get accused of paying a bunch of players not to nominate for the draft the year before they entered the competition. They were the darlings of the AFL so no penalty there.

What do you mean "were the darlings of the AFL" they still are. They paid Tredrea, Lade, Wilson and a 4th player, whose name escapes me, to stay out of the draft. They were fined $30k but their cheating won them a premiership, hence Bucky Cunninghams statement that the $30k "was the best money we ever spent".

Amazed how many supporters didn't know this. Ironically it only became common knowledge after the hypocritical Port people were bleeting how horrible we were for cheating re Tippett. Imagine if we did the same. We would be out of the draft for 5 years minimum.

 

[Mike Smyth]

I've had a lot of fun with Port supporters over this. In fact I have thoroughly enjoyed pointing out to them that this year will be the first year in their history that their on field team isn't compromised by cheating.
Between the cheating they did by paying players to stay out of the draft to the ill-gotten father-son who didn't actually qualify (MegaHead Ebert) this is the first year without any of those players on the park.

Of course they did tank to get their current star players and get the AFL to bank roll them while they did it....

It was Port people who asked the AFL to double check to see whether GibbS qualified for F/S.

 

[bomberclifford]

What do you mean "were the darlings of the AFL" they still are. They paid Tredrea, Lade, Wilson and a 4th player, whose name escapes me, to stay out of the draft. They were fined $30k but their cheating won them a premiership, hence Bucky Cunninghams statement that the $30k "was the best money we ever spent".

Amazed how many supporters didn't know this. Ironically it only became common knowledge after the hypocritical Port people were bleeting how horrible we were for cheating re Tippett. Imagine if we did the same. We would be out of the draft for 5 years minimum.

It was common knowledge back when it happened.
We got fined $50k and it wasn't four players.

 

[Mattrox]

It was common knowledge back when it happened.
We got fined $50k and it wasn't four players.

You are right. It was 5 players.

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