Resource Potential Port Adelaide father son players

[Ford Fairlane]

Im just pointing out that instead of having one pool (club) worth of players, the interstate clubs have several pools (clubs) worth of eligible fathers to choose from.

Yeah but Yoda you have to recognise that let's say in Port's case those 200 games have to have been played before 1997. So let's say any player would have been around 30yo by 1997, by now they are nearly 50yo. They're not having more kids, it's highly unlikely they would have had any in the past 10 years. They're not like drones servicing some football queen who squeezes out potential father-son recruits into a hive full of footballing honeycomb. You have to recognise the impact of the ageing process.

We might have a couple of kids from the SANFL part of the father-son rule still coming through but as far as anyone here knows right now we are already looking to the kids of our AFL players.

We'll be arm-wrestling for Tex before you know it.

 

[Portology]

The issue is that the 'several pools' the interstate clubs get to access from are in relative terms bathtub sized. Sure there are more bathtubs but unfortunately not enough bathtubs to make up the equivalent of a 'pool'.

And our 'bathtubs' over the 1971-1997 timeline were regularly drained of their quality fish in the (net) direction of the bigger, richer Vic. pools.

Tredrea's dad came over from Vic, but firstly Gary was more a fringe player in Vic and secondly even when here at Port did not play enough games to qualify Wazza as a F/S pick. The flow of fringe Vic players in the SA direction did not make up for the flow of quality SA players in the other direction.


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[bomberclifford]

They're not like drones servicing some football queen who squeezes out potential father-son recruits into a hive full of footballing honeycomb.

I'm pretty sure this was an episode of Dr Who during the Pertwee era.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

I am here in peace quietly going about my business. Asking how it works.

From the rules that Ford Fairlane kindly posted, you are allowed to grab sons of guns who played 200+ SANFL games from 1 of 6 SANFL clubs (PAFC, Woodville FC, WWT, North Adelaide, Centrals and West Adelaide). Now having that eligible criteria PLUS having the eligibility to select sons of guns who have already played 100+ AFL games allows you access to up to 7 times (6 SANFL + 1 AFL clubs players) the available Father/Sons whilst a long standing club such as Essendon only has the one pool of players to select from. ONLY Fathers who have played 100+ AFL games for the Essendon Football Club.

Hardly a disadvantage I would say.

I wrote this in late 2008 for the ill informed on the main board and its still appropriate.

The 200 SANFL game figure and 150 WAFL game figure is a smoothing exercise done by the AFL so that:

No. of eligible 200 game fathers for the 4 SANFL clubs attached to the Crows =
approx the no. of eligible 200 game fathers for the 6 SANFL clubs attached to Port =
approx the no. of eligible 150 game fathers for the 4 WAFL clubs attached to the West coast =
approx the no. of eligible 150 game fathers for the 4 WAFL clubs attached to Freo =
approx the no. of eligible 100 game fathers for the 1 V/AFL clubs or ex V/AFL side attached to that V/AFL side.

It has nothing to do with saying the VFL was x% better than the WAFL which was y% better than the SANFL.

If the no. of eligible 200 game fathers who played for 9 SANFL clubs = 3 times the no. of eligible 100 game fathers who played for Port in the SANFL until the GF in 1996 and the crows ended up with all those non Port fathers, then that wouldn't both me. It's the principal that counts for me.

If it meant that Martin Leslie who played about 150 games for Port (officially minus approx 25 pre season games the AFL don't count in their qualifying rule) had his son aligned to Port but we missed out on Mick Redden's son - Mick who played 300+ games for North, Bruce Lindsay's son, - Bruce played who played about 250 games for West Torrens and Max Parker's son , - Max who played 300+ games for Woodville and if those 3 sons were better than Martin's then bad luck we miss out. It wouldn't bother me to much.

I want blokes who played for the PAFC before 1997 to have the same qualifying rules apply to their sons as what the 10 Vic clubs have plus the South Melbourne/ Sydney swans fathers and the Brisbane Bears/ Fitzroy Lions/ Brisbane Lions fathers have.

That's all.

 

[scotty13]

The awful rules we labour under have already rendered Port stalwarts and legends Russell Ebert, Craig Ebert, Max James, Brett Chalmers, Scott Hodges, Paul Northeast and Mark Williams ineligible through the ages.

If you believe it's an advantage over the Victorian clubs who seem to regularly have father-son players flying out of their arses - Jonathan Brown (Brisbane-Fitzroy), Travis Cloke, Matthew Scarlett, Gary Ablett Jnr, Travis Cloke, Tom Hawkins, Joe Daniher, Jobe Watson, Josh P. Kennedy, Jack Viney, Tom Liberatore, Luke McDonald, Matthew Richardson - I can't help you m8.

I mean for goodness sake, we still have the odd punter who believes our entry concessions were unfair because we were able to pick the likes of Warren Tredrea (second-generation PAFC player) and Peter Burgoyne (second-generation PAFC player) outside the draft. It's a sliver of justice that we were able to draft Shaun Burgoyne with a first round pick and acquire Brad Ebert via trade relatively cheaply.

Travis isn't that good

 

[70sDinosaur]

Shaun has a boy or two. There was a story in the age in his 2nd or 3rd year at the hawks that his oldest boy calls them the chickens as thats what the logo looks like to him.

I used to think the Hawthorn logo from the 1980s looked like a shotgun instead of a hawk.

 

[Powerstufff]

Im just pointing out that instead of having one pool (club) worth of players, the interstate clubs have several pools (clubs) worth of eligible fathers to choose from.

Instead of looking for complexity in perpetually altering regulation look at how often it plays out. Brett Ebert came to us via father/son but amusingly only because the AFL screwed up on their own rules. Name the other father/son picks to either SA club. Or to the WA clubs.

 

[RossFC]

It should be anyones father who played for Port Adelaide (Magpies or Power) for 100 games or more qualifies.

Crows can take our other SANFL teams and their games can go from 200 to 250.

 

[Canoogs]

If it meant that Martin Leslie who played about 150 games for Port (officially minus approx 25 pre season games the AFL don't count in their qualifying rule) had his son aligned to Port but we missed out on Mick Redden's son - Mick who played 300+ games for North, Bruce Lindsay's son, - Bruce played who played about 250 games for West Torrens and Max Parker's son , - Max who played 300+ games for Woodville and if those 3 sons were better than Martin's then bad luck we miss out. It wouldn't bother me to much.

I want blokes who played for the PAFC before 1997 to have the same qualifying rules apply to their sons as what the 10 Vic clubs have plus the South Melbourne/ Sydney swans fathers and the Brisbane Bears/ Fitzroy Lions/ Brisbane Lions fathers have.

That's all.

My understanding was that the 200 games was also to account for the fact that the SANFL includes in its official game tally, all of the pre-season games and other "exhibition" type games. The understanding was that a 200 game player for Port was equivalent to a 150 game player in the WAFL due to this effect.

However, when the Father-Son Rule was redone (in 2007?), there was a utensil-up and this stopped being included... thereby handicapping the two SA clubs.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The crows and the SANFL ****ed it up by just handing over players who were in the 200 club.

WA SA and Vic set up the 200 club each as a way to reward players - pension type payments.

All 3 comps counted non premiership games but SA didnt keep seperate totals for premiership season and non premiership games. The SANFL forgot their own system and ****ed up

 

[raptalia]

The F&S rule is yet another example of free kicks handed to Victorian clubs. Personally I do not think there should be a father son rule. It is elitist and unfair, I believe that every one should be treated equally in the draft. To do otherwise is to compromise the whole deal.

A lop sided draw and the biased F&S rule hand the Victorian based clubs free kicks and it is no wonder they have the potential to dominate the AFL. The fact they don't is down to their own incompetence.

 

[Seanybruz]

Let the Dogs waste their first pick on another Cordy who might not be upto it, Ayce has shown less than Harvey in 5 years on an AFL list & his brother is being talked up on height alone again even though that article linked on the other page said he recently got 6 goals kicked on him by this years #1 pick.

I don't mind the rule even though it's flawed for non Vic clubs it'll take time for us to benefit from it, eg Wilbur, Lade, Burgoyne & most importantly Gavs son Tex. If we can convince him to stay in SA choosing us over Essendon it'll go someway to making up for a few other promising players we miss out on along the way.

It's a non negotiable really we can't let Essendon win that bid, before he hits draft age we need to convince Tex that the best thing for his footy career is playing for Port.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

Collingwood supporters are licking their lips in anticipation of Darcy Moore.

 

[philthy05]

Im just pointing out that instead of having one pool (club) worth of players, the interstate clubs have several pools (clubs) worth of eligible fathers to choose from.

when they set about making the interstate f/s rules they looked at the numbers and set the bar (200sanfl games for sa teams and 150 games for wa teams) so that a similar number of available fathers (so if the vic teams had an average of 80 eligible fathers they could draw father sons from the league set a number that allowed a similar pool of fathers to draw sons from. which is where the 200 game cut-off came in).

however , when they did the count to even it up they counted pre-season and cup games , then they wrote into the rules that pre-season and cup games don't count in the games count. this then reduced our amount of eligible fathers down way below what the average was.

hence port and the crows have a much lower pool available then most of the competition.


when port came in they wanted to have access to port father sons in the same manner carlton or anyone else but they got shoe-horned into the same model as the crows by the sanfl (who hated our guts at the time and still probably do) and the league. they didnt want to give us a separate model from the crows as they were probably afraid of the crows backlash and whinging. the crows received the sanfl spread model because they have no history to draw father sons from. port had a history and a connection.

russell ebert is a legend of the game and is port adelaide through and through with over 300 games at the club. his son only came to the club because the league hadnt realised its mistake yet.

brad ebert's father played 112 games for port adelaide and his immediate family has something like 1200 games of port adelaide football. think about that for a moment , port adelaide champions on his fathers and mothers side notching up 1200 games and we had to watch him waste away at west coast until we could trade to bring him back to where he was always meant to be and become the player he was meant to be.

 

[tribey]

Travis isn't that good

Ha! I have no idea how that happened - I wouldn't have meant Cameron or Jason the second time around... would I?

 

[1954]

Geebung have been arguably the biggest beneficiary of the father/son rule, but I reckon the bummers will do very well out of the Daniher family, and as custo sidevalve says, the wobbler supporters are very excited about Darcy Moore.

Re Port, probably too much water has flowed under the bridge for any son of Choco or Sean Burgoyne to come to us.

As for other SANFL clubs tied to Port under the father son, anyone else remember that fat C grade plonker Beythein ringing 5AA when the poms were zoned to the Power, saying no son of his would ever play for Port?

No problem this end Beythein, you merchant banker, they would have to have been 10 times better than you to be water boys at Alberton!

 

[Hellgood]

Geebung have been arguably the biggest beneficiary of the father/son rule, but I reckon the bummers will do very well out of the Daniher family, and as custo sidevalve says, the wobbler supporters are very excited about Darcy Moore.

Re Port, probably too much water has flowed under the bridge for any son of Choco or Sean Burgoyne to come to us.

As for other SANFL clubs tied to Port under the father son, anyone else remember that fat C grade plonker Beythein ringing 5AA when the poms were zoned to the Power, saying no son of his would ever play for Port?

No problem this end Beythein, you merchant banker, they would have to have been 10 times better than you to be water boys at Alberton!

What makes you say this? I don't think Williams holds much resentment in regard to the club at all. The end of his reign wasn't pretty, but he'll forever be a member of the Port Adelaide family. With Burgoyne, it depends on where he settles post footy - not that I have any idea of his personal situation, but it wouldn't be a stretch to speculate that he'd return to SA. Not to mention there'll be 15-20 year premiership reunions that you'd think would allow him to reflect with a more rose coloured view. Obviously, he'll have the same connection to Hawthorn, but I don't think he hates the club so much that he wouldn't want his kids playing there.

Time heals all wounds. Andrew Dunkley's son is coming through the ranks and will most likely go to the Swans as a father-son selection next year. That's despite Dunkley having a fairly well publicised fall out with the club (think his problem was mostly to do with Roos) and not even living in the state anymore. Dean Wallis' son also looks like he'll go to Essendon next year too - a couple of years after his father was given the boot from the clubs coaching department and has since been organising functions with Stephen Dank.

 

[Ford Fairlane]

No son of Choco's is eligible for Port anyway, absurd as that is.

 

[tribey]

The F&S rule is yet another example of free kicks handed to Victorian clubs. Personally I do not think there should be a father son rule. It is elitist and unfair, I believe that every one should be treated equally in the draft. To do otherwise is to compromise the whole deal.

A lop sided draw and the biased F&S rule hand the Victorian based clubs free kicks and it is no wonder they have the potential to dominate the AFL. The fact they don't is down to their own incompetence.

Had we not been forced to sign up to the horrible one-size fits all Frankenstein father-son rule so all SANFL clubs could be included (for some reason? like why the hell would Centrals or Glenelg care that one of their sons of guns has to leave the state?) it would suit us just fine.

Indeed, the only one of true quality we had a genuine growl about ended up on our list anyway.

We'll be loving the father-son rule in 10-15 years when a fresh generation of Lades, Wanganeens, Wilsons, Corneses and Tredreas are on deck.

No son of Choco's is eligible for Port anyway, absurd as that is.

Which is ultimately the point, random Bombers guy.

 

[Boxx]

Surely, now that we are one club and have no ties to the SANFL anymore - KT would be lobbying to align out F/S rule with the other traditional Vic clubs model.

I dont care if the Cows take every other clubs F/Ss... we just need to look after our own back yard!!!

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Surely, now that we are one club and have no ties to the SANFL anymore - KT would be lobbying to align out F/S rule with the other traditional Vic clubs model.

I dont care if the Cows take every other clubs F/Ss... we just need to look after our own back yard!!!

25th order priority for KT.

 

[Hellgood]

Yeah it's not really that pressing an issue and will become increasingly less so as we start to reach the next era of sons of guys who played 100 games for us in the AFL.

 

[Asgardian]

So are there are lads we can look at for 2015?

 

[Hong-Kong Phooey]

i dont think it would be on KT's list at all

 

[Hodges 153!]

It's a non negotiable really we can't let Essendon win that bid, before he hits draft age we need to convince Tex that the best thing for his footy career is playing for Port.

I saw Tex at the Geelong game, wearing a Power guernsey.....

So fingers crossed he's found the path of good, not evil already......