Round 15: Hawthorn vs Fremantle

[blue harvest]

The opponent is irrelevant. We will be resting players at some stage in the second half of the season. It may as well be this one

A trip to Tassie is not the same as a trip to Melbourne, and round 15 is late enough in the season that makes it a perfect game to rest players. Whether we rest them in round 15 or 19 is irrelevant, the week off is the important thing

The opponent is very relevant. Why would you rest them against a good team and risk 4 points? Surely you have your best team in to play the Hawks and rest them when you are playing a crap side. Travelwise a trip to Tassie is the same as a trip to Melbourne so that shouldn't be a factor.

 

[blue harvest]

Every club that is serious about finals rests players in the second half of the year. Some clubs, like yours, just stagger them

We took a week off against St Kilda in 2013 and made the grand final

You're trying to get a rise out of Freo supporters but it's a completely unemotional issue for us. We will probably rest a whole pile of players against you because we are going to Tassie late in the season. It's just a fact

But that game against StKilda was in the last round and barring a massive upset you were locked into 3rd on the ladder, so there was nothing to gain by sending a full team and trying to win. However round 15 against another finals side there is a lot at stake, conceding the game could cost you a home final and I still don't see what Tassie has got to do with anything.

 

[Eski3]

The opponent is very relevant. Why would you rest them against a good team and risk 4 points? Surely you have your best team in to play the Hawks and rest them when you are playing a crap side. Travelwise a trip to Tassie is the same as a trip to Melbourne so that shouldn't be a factor.

I haven't had to play footy in Tassie and Melbourne, but if a trip to Tassie is in any way more taxing than Melbourne for some reason they will choose that game to rest everyone. Looking at the draw, we may end up sending everyone over for Hawthorn and take the rest in round 19 against St Kilda. But we will rest players against someone around that time of the season

 

[Juggs Magnetic]

I really don't think Freo will rest players for the Hawks match. We have home games against GWS in round 18 and Melbourne in round 22, surely it would make more sense to rest players for those matches?
The argument could be that Ross doesn't want to take the older players on such a long flight to Tas, but it's round 15 and there's plenty of time to recover before the finals. If the long flight really takes it out of the older players, there's always rounds 18 and 22.

After such a great start to the year, and where finishing top 2 is so critical I can't see us resting players, especially against a fellow top 4 side. I'd be incredibly disappointed if we did. I want to beat the Hawks in Tas, I can't imagine a freo supporter who doesn't.

 

[Eski3]

I really don't think Freo will rest players for the Hawks match. We have home games against GWS in round 18 and Melbourne in round 22, surely it would make more sense to rest players for those matches?
The argument could be that Ross doesn't want to take the older players on such a long flight to Tas, but it's round 15 and there's plenty of time to recover before the finals. If the long flight really takes it out of the older players, there's always rounds 18 and 22.

After such a great start to the year, and where finishing top 2 is so critical I can't see us resting players, especially against a fellow top 4 side. I'd be incredibly disappointed if we did. I want to beat the Hawks in Tas, I can't imagine a freo supporter who doesn't.

Unfortunately we travel too much to have the luxury of using our home games to rest players. I think that if the club is concerned about giving 4 points to a fellow contender they will rest them in round 19 against St Kilda, and if they are more concerned about the effects of travelling to Tassie late in the season, they will rest them against the Hawks

 

[Milang_Panthers]

I reckon the club would love for the game to be moved to the MCG, doubt the AFL will do it though.

Tassie deserve a decent game every now and then

This

 

[Darcy 2 Fyfe]

This

Doesn't pay the bills unfortunately.

 

[blue harvest]

Doesn't pay the bills unfortunately.

Actually it does, we get millions from it.

 

[Darcy 2 Fyfe]

Actually it does, we get millions from it.

*Premiership

 

[blue harvest]

*Premiership

*Premiership
*Premiership
*Premiership

 

[Darcy 2 Fyfe]

*Premiership
*Premiership
*Premiership

Glad we agree. Nice join date.

 

[iBeng]

Problem I see here is that Freo will flog Brisbane to the tune of 30 points (Thats a flogging to Ross) and then come into the Hawks game overconfident.

Of course, the game will also be influenced by how many people Lewis/Hodge deck in the games leading up to round 15.

 

[Crankyhawk]

That may be true, but you get a deliberate preferential draw by the AFL every year by getting a below average (even for a Victorian team) number of away interstate games. Most years you have the lowest number of away interstate games in the league. Most years. You get 5 this year, and that's unusually high. But still below average. Combined with a high number of 'home' games (because you don't play interstate teams away, you have to play them at home), it's clearly a preferential draw.

Not that I complain about travelling to Launceston, but given the lack of MCG games we get and the home ground advantage you're guaranteed to get in the grand final, it is starting to piss me off.

5 interstate away games is what average would be for a vic club with a truly rotating draw. Should roughly play 2 non vic twice and split the other 6 to 3 home and 3 away,

I floated an idea once of every vic side played every interstate side away, and on vic sides played 7 double ups against the other non vic sides while vic sides then played double ups vs 7 other sides. Would even up travel (everyone would get 16 or 17 home state games in a 24 round season) but non vic sides would never see Victoria/ mcg.

 

[Crankyhawk]

You've offered a few incorrect facts up in this thread to conveniently back your skewed argument mate.

You have 11 home games, not 10. So don't cry poor. Go back and check your fixtures, I just did.

For starters, you only travel "on a plane" as you put it, 5 times to play at an opposition ground this year. Not 9 as you have repeatedly stated. You have 4 extra home games that should be at the G. The 1 home game you conveniently left out is at Etihad, again probably sold was it? Either way its not Port's home ground, so whose home game is it? You want to sell them, that's your choice, not the AFLs. So Tassie home games don't count as "travel" I'm afraid. Freo don't get to choose our away games you are right, but Hawthorn (inadvertently) choose Tasmania for us because of your self serving arrangement. That is the point I think us Freo fans are trying to get across to you.

I'm not big on excuses or worrying too much about other teams, but time and time again in this thread the facts being raised are incorrect and they paint a wildly different picture to the truth. My main issue with the Tassie game is that if we play you as a home game, it should be at the G. Let the Dogs, Dees, North, Saints play you down there to honour your arrangement, they get enough "away" games at the G as it is. There's your 4 games. That would actually expose Tasmania to new people who may make actually make the trip down, which would make more sense from a sponsorship side of things. Might actually get some of those people to return to Tassie on holidays, but that's not really the reasoning behind the deal is it? I think it is only fair that Freo get that extra game at the G for touch and exposing the players to a decent sized crowd away from Subi. No one made Hawthorn play home games in Tassie, your mob are paid handsomely for the trouble, why should Freo be the ones to pay the price for your club's coffers?

Etihad game not sold, forced there by crap stadium agreement with afl. Yet host Melbourne at mcg....

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

Thought this was worthy of a bump, surely this game should be played at the G again this year given the bragging rights on offer?

Top side versus the two time reigning premiers, played at a neutral boutique stadium?

AFL need to have a look at this fixture in future, no offence to Tassie but surely a blockbuster game like this warrants it be played at the MCG.

Madness.

 

[eaglespremiers]

I think that if the club is concerned about giving 4 points to a fellow contender they will rest them in round 19 against St Kilda

Round 23, 2013 v St Kilda - Lost by 71pts
Round 18, 2014 v St Kilda - Lost by 58pts

Gee, do you have a pact with St Kilda or something?

 

[Badesumofu]

Well there was not so much reason to think it would be a blockbuster when it was scheduled. In fact when I saw it, I thought oh great another Freo match. They haven't been great to watch.

They aim to fixture the games that would draw low crowds in Melbourne. Can't always predict the future with accuracy, however. I'll be interested to see what sort of crowd this one gets, though.

 

[Flukey!]

Yep, it should be at The G.
But I am over us playing in Tassie now.

 

[Freoforever86]

Just giving tassie a look at the Nathan Fyfe Australian tour

 

[Grape Bear]

Hi, guys! This is from our preview thread. Would be interested to see one from a Hawks perspective!



The last five times
R21, 2014, Fremantle 17.8 (110) d Hawthorn 13.13 (91) at PS
R3, 2014, Hawthorn 21.11 (137) d Fremantle 11.13 (79) at MCG
GF, 2013, Hawthorn 11.11 (77) d Fremantle 8.14 (62) at MCG
R4, 2013, Hawthorn 18.10 (118) d Fremantle 11.10 (76) at Aurora Stadium
R8, 2012, Hawthorn 17.17 (119) d Fremantle 9.9 (63) at Aurora Stadium

Form Line
Fremantle Dockers - WLWWW
Hawthorn Hawks - WWWWW

If there was ever a bogey side for the Dockers, the Hawks will be it. In 30 contests between the sides Hawthorn has completely dominated, winning 22 games to 8, including eight of the last 10 since 2008. Both our wins against the Hawks have both come at home - which puts the win-loss record into some perspective as playing the Hawks in WA has been as rare as hen's teeth. (Thank you, AFL fixturing... Not.)

The Last Time...

Last year's Round 21 encounter at Subiaco Oval was a must-win game for both sides, with Hawthorn wanting to lock away a top 2 berth and Fremantle needing a win to stay in touch with a top 4 finish. Both sides were missing key personnel - Roughead and Rioli for the Hawks, McPharlin and Ballantyne out with injury for the Dockers. Hawthorn were going for a 5 game winning streak into the finals, while Fremantle was coming off a heartbreaker loss at the hands of Geelong but was showing signs of a return to form.

The game started out with Hawthorn dominating the 1st term - but not capitalizing on their chances early. The Dockers found their mojo and played with more intent in the second, and the game that everyone had predicted to be a defensive grind turned into a high scoring shoot out, with both sides scoring goal for goal going into the long break. The Dockers gained ascendancy in the third term, scoring goals off uncharacteristic turnovers as the Hawks coughed up the ball from perceived pressure. When the smoke cleared, Fremantle was the last team standing with a 19-point win.

Pavlich turned back the clock and played a captain's game, booting 5 goals. Mundy and Fyfe shared best midfielder honors, with Fyfe firing early and Mundy tearing the game apart late.

This Time...

In the 3 years since RTB has taken the reins, the usual narrative of Dockers vs Hawks clashes has been that of the best defensive team taking on the best offensive team in the competition. Hawthorn have the enviable ability to slice through the Fremantle defense and score heavily and ruthlessly and kill the game in a short period of time. On the other hand, Fremantle is still striving to improve its attack to bring it up to the standard of their defense. And it's been harped on, ad nauseum - you can't win a flag if you can't kick a winning score. As such, despite Fremantle's 12-1 position on the ladder this year, pundits still don't think they're "convincing" contenders. (Never mind if Hawthorn won the 2013 flag off us by playing our pressure game better than we did.)

As expected, the Dockers have once more been sent on expedition to Antarctica by the AFL to accomplish what has been so far a mission impossible - take 4 points off the Hawks in their stronghold, Aurora Stadium. Oh, and just to make things even more impossible, let those Perth-based upstarts take one of the longest trips in footy off a 7 day break while the Hawks have a head start of 2 days recovery and a shorter ride. Given our dismal record at Aurora and Hawthorn's building form, no one is seriously giving the boys any chance of winning this encounter.

No one, maybe, expect the boys themselves. For the first time this year, they go in as the underdogs - and RTB usually knows how to use that underdog tag to his team's advantage. (Remember Geelong in 2013?)

Talking Points...

1. Despite Fremantle's lofty ladder position, the team has been playing pretty ugly, "unconvincing" footy for the last 5 weeks. From being a pretty good wet weather team the past two years, the side seems to be struggling with adapting our new game plan to the wet.
2. Hawthorn is first in the league for inside 50's and equal first for marks inside 50. We need to have ascendancy in the midfield to keep the ball from getting there, as the myriad scoring options that Hawthorn have in their forward line will kill the game for us before we can gain traction.
3. Who will be our avenues to goal? Mayne and Ballas, while giving us great defensive pressure, have both struggled to hit the scoreboard this year. Walters is in form and Pav seems to be working his way back into things, but we need dangerous targets in the forward 50 or be smart about where we kick in the ball if we don't want Hawthorn to outmark us and hurt us on the counter.
4. Goalkicking practice is a must. No point in dominating general play when we can't convert it into scoreboard pressure. (See Collingwood v Hawthorn in Round 14.)

Ins and Outs... (For Freo)

None, unless due to injury or illness

Tip...

I generally don't like tipping against our boys, but I cannot tell a lie. With the travel and the shorter break and the hard slog and Hawthorn's scoring power, I can't see us getting up for this - but I am hoping the guys will give it a good hot crack and break their duck in Tasmania.

Hawthorn by at least 3 goals... but will be happy as Larry to be proven wrong!

 

[Tasmaniac]

Have you ever even lost there?

Don't think we've lost many since 2008 (lost to Doggies in 2008, their field kicking that day was unbelieveable).

3:20 start on a Sunday in Tassie, gonna be a small crowd.

 

[TheInjuryFactory]

Well there was not so much reason to think it would be a blockbuster when it was scheduled. In fact when I saw it, I thought oh great another Freo match. They haven't been great to watch.

They aim to fixture the games that would draw low crowds in Melbourne. Can't always predict the future with accuracy, however. I'll be interested to see what sort of crowd this one gets, though.

43,583 at the MCG last year versus York Park capacity of 21,000???

Don't need to be blind freddy to see it deserves to be at the 'G until one or both teams slide down outside of top contention. Also a much needed MCG game for Fremantle who deserve the few opportunities we get to play there. Let the minnows from over east play the Hawks there.

Freo were never going to drop away that far despite a straight sets exit last year. Of course it was going to be a blockbuster, even if it was just a top 8 clash, let alone a clash between two of the top contenders.

That said, it is where it is and it should be an interesting/telling game regardless, just think it's a bit of a farce personally, and I know I'm not alone there.

AFL having a bit of a mexican standoff with Freo over this fixture it seems.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Have you ever even lost there?

Couple, Against sydney in 2012, Pretty sure the lions and saints also did us over in 2009, Dogs in 2008, Plus both games in 2005 because we we're a terrible team

However factor in the AFL wanting us to get out of tasmania ASAP to use it as a money spinner for under-preforming Vic clubs where in the AFL eyes just happens magicly, We cop either struggling vic clubs or the teams with no outside fanbase out of their states (port/dockers). We would tend to thump most clubs on the G honestly

 

[Hawkk]

Well there was not so much reason to think it would be a blockbuster when it was scheduled. In fact when I saw it, I thought oh great another Freo match. They haven't been great to watch.

They aim to fixture the games that would draw low crowds in Melbourne. Can't always predict the future with accuracy, however. I'll be interested to see what sort of crowd this one gets, though.

That is not the aim

Otherwise we wouldn't be playing home games against Gold Coast (2012, 2013) and GWS (2012, 2014) at the MCG while we play Sydney, North, WB in Tasmania

 

[Badesumofu]

43,583 at the MCG last year versus York Park capacity of 21,000???

Don't need to be blind freddy to see it deserves to be at the 'G until one or both teams slide down outside of top contention. Also a much needed MCG game for Fremantle who deserve the few opportunities we get to play there. Let the minnows from over east play the Hawks there.

Freo were never going to drop away that far despite a straight sets exit last year. Of course it was going to be a blockbuster, even if it was just a top 8 clash, let alone a clash between two of the top contenders.

That said, it is where it is and it should be a good game regardless, just think it's a bit of a farce personally, and I know I'm not alone there.

AFL having a bit of a mexican standoff with Freo over this fixture it seems.

That was the 4th lowest drawing fixture at the MCG involving Hawthorn in 2014, despite being the Grand Final replay and our premiership flag unveiling. The only lower drawing games were against St. Kilda, Melbourne and GWS. The AFL had every reason to think it would draw even lower this year when they made the fixture.