Analysis Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happening

[RussellEbertHandball]

Lastest Auditor General 6 monthly report into AO is out. The government only spent $415k this period.

Report on the Adelaide Oval redevelopment pursuant to section 9 of the Adelaide Oval Redevelopment and Management Act 2011 for the designated period 1 January 2015 to 30 June 2015298.62 KBDownload

 

[Portology]

Big news on Sydney stadium developments reported today in the Daily Terrorgraph - things talked about for two years as an on again/off again $500m set of stadium upgrades have turned into $1.6Bn worth of good new from the NSW State government for soccer/NRL/ARU. Works to be scheduled over the next 10 years is my guess.

- converting ANZ to a permanent square format (Dogs/Rabbitohs).
- replacement 30k stadium in the west (WSW/Eels). First cab off the rank, expected to be open 2019.
- replacement 50k stadium for Moore park (Waratahs/Roosters). Down from the original 65k proposal.
- new 12k indoor stadium near CBD
- 'completion of the SCG upgrade' (found a reference to this on the ABC version of this news, all out of the same pork barrel but apparently this is more about the Allianzprecinct than the SCG itself)

The 'justification' from Premier Mike Baird, aimed at non-ball-sport-lovers, is that SYD is behind MEL in terms of international class stadiums and hence 'uncompetitive in bidding for major world events. In practice it's all about buying votes via the three square field ball codes, balancing the pork around the 'interest groups' and snubbing the AFL, which must make them all snicker.

Pisses me off that soccer is by a mile the big winner here, not that the Rugby codes give a **** about that. I've long maintained that soccer is the AFL's true enemy, they certainly think so. It's yet another example of why AFL has to keep investing for the long term in NSW and QLD. One day the likes of Melbourne and North will be made to cash in their licenses to allow for expansion of TV audiences without unworkable bloody conferences. Hope I'm around to see international expansion as well.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Big news on Sydney stadium developments reported today in the Daily Terrorgraph - things talked about for two years as an on again/off again $500m set of stadium upgrades have turned into $1.6Bn worth of good new from the NSW State government for soccer/NRL/ARU. Works to be scheduled over the next 10 years is my guess.

- converting ANZ to a permanent square format (Dogs/Rabbitohs).
There is $400mil at least maybe as high as $700mil as you would have to shift the whole of the eastern stand ( or western stand) by 25m. That massive 200m arch will have to come down. There are 30,000 seats in each of the eastern and western stands so a minimum of $10,000 per seat for the conversion. Will be interesting if they touch the northern or southern end to bring them closer to the try zones as that will be expensive as it effects the way the western stand would stay put - well it would have to be adjusted if the end stands come in. The government gets the full control of the stadium in 2031 - it was a BOOT project.

- replacement 30k stadium in the west (WSW/Eels). First cab off the rank, expected to be open 2019.
$200mil would be a cheapie so probably $300mil+ given AAMI Park in Melbourne 31,000 capacity cost $286 mil about 5 years ago.

- replacement 50k stadium for Moore park (Waratahs/Roosters). Down from the original 65k proposal.
another $400mil - $500mil

- new 12k indoor stadium near CBD
- Another $150mil. There goes the Entertainment Centre as the CBD draw card for concerts etc

- 'completion of the SCG upgrade' (found a reference to this on the ABC version of this news, all out of the same pork barrel but apparently this is more about the Allianzprecinct than the SCG itself)
That would be $100mil - $200mil job. heck the Trumper stand is 6 years old and the Noble/Bradman stand is less than 2, so you wouldnt think they need an upgrade.

Edit Found the link to the Daily Telegraph article and a few others.
http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au/news/nsw-government-announce-1-billion-stadium-upgrades/
NSW Premier Mike Baird and Minister for Sport Stuart Ayres have today announced a $1 billion commitment to invest in new and old stadiums in Sydney. As a part of the announcement, a new 30,000-seat stadium will be built on the site of the current Parramatta stadium, a new rectangular stadium at Moore Park, seating between 50,000 and 55,000, and a new indoor arena near Sydney’s CBD. Further to the commitment includes a new outer western Sydney sporting venue, a possible retractable roof and redevelopment of ANZ Stadium and the completion of the SCG upgrade.
http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au/news/nsw-government-announce-1-billion-stadium-upgrades/
From NSW Govt press release
http://www.nsw.gov.au/news/1-billion-sydney-stadiums
New and old stadiums across Sydney will receive more than $1 billion investment during the next decade with the first project being a new 30,000 seat stadium in Parramatta. NSW Premier Mike Baird said Sydney needed world class sporting venues and that the investment would ensure fans and sporting teams had the facilities they deserved.

“Our first priority is building a new 30,000 seat stadium at Parramatta on the site of the existing facility, with work to begin as soon as possible and construction expected to be completed by 2019,” Mr Baird said. “This huge investment in our stadia will boost our capacity to attract big ticket events to NSW, as well as create and support thousands of jobs.”

Along with the Parramatta stadium, other upgrades and new stadiums will include a:

• new rectangular stadium at Moore Park with 50,000 to 55,000 seats
• redevelopment of Stadium Australia that could include a retractable roof
• new indoor arena near the CBD
• new outer western Sydney sporting venue
• completion of the SCG upgrade.

$600 million has been set aside in Rebuilding NSW and the NSW Government will provide a further allocation of funding to complete the projects.
http://www.nsw.gov.au/news/1-billion-sydney-stadiums
Daily Telegraph
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ums-set-to-begin/story-fni0cx12-1227511776729
THE biggest overhaul of Sydney’s sports stadiums is set to begin under a plan worth more than $1 billion announced by the Premier today, with priority being on a new 30,000-seat stadium in Parramatta.

A world-class football stadium will also be built at Moore Park, while Sydney’s former Olympics Stadium could be fully roofed and transformed into a permanent rectangular arena.

A 12,000-seat indoor stadium would also be built near the city for about $200 million.

The government initially intended to invest just $600 million but Mr Baird believes at least $1.5 billion will be needed to ensure Sydney is capable of competing with Melbourne and other cities for major events: “We want to be the best city in the world and, as part of that, you need sports facilities, you need cultural facilities.’’

The first stadium to be built will be home for the Western Sydney Wanderers and Parramatta Eels.The existing Pirtek Stadium will be demolished, with the new $300 million venue expected to open by early 2019.

A new hi-tech rectangular stadium of up to 55,000 seats at Moore Park will be the second stadium built. It will be built on the site of the antiquated Allianz Stadium — home to the Waratahs and Sydney Roosters — but building work is not expected to begin until the Parramatta venue is open.

Mr Baird also said there would be a new indoor arena close to the CBD and a new outer western Sydney sporting venue

The Cabinet meeting will be told at least $350 million should be invested at Sydney Olympic Park’s ANZ Stadium, the city’s biggest venue with 83,500 seats.

Mr Baird will insist the NRL guarantee its grand final and at least one State of Origin match be played in Sydney for at least 20 years.

ANZ bosses have developed a plan to move every seat across the stadium’s six levels up to 20m closer to the action, complete with a sliding roof. This is being promoted as Sydney’s own Wembley. The only catch is the $600 million price tag — $250 million more than the Premier’s commitment. Government sources say a new super trust to manage all major venues may decide Allianz only requires a renovation rather than a complete rebuild. The extra money could then be pumped into ANZ.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ums-set-to-begin/story-fni0cx12-1227511776729

A roofed ANZ Stadium/Stadium Australia at Sydney Olympic Park

 

[Portology]

- converting ANZ to a permanent square format (Dogs/Rabbitohs).
There is $400mil at least maybe as high as $700mil as you would have to shift the whole of the eastern stand ( or western stand) by 25m. That massive 200m arch will have to come down. There are 30,000 seats in each of the eastern and western stands so a minimum of $10,000 per seat for the conversion. Will be interesting if they touch the northern or southern end to bring them closer to the try zones as that will be expensive as it effects the way the western stand would stay put - well it would have to be adjusted if the end stands come in. The government gets the full control of the stadium in 2031 - it was a BOOT project.

- replacement 30k stadium in the west (WSW/Eels). First cab off the rank, expected to be open 2019.
$200mil would be a cheapie so probably $300mil+ given AAMI Park in Melbourne 31,000 capacity cost $286 mil about 5 years ago.

- replacement 50k stadium for Moore park (Waratahs/Roosters). Down from the original 65k proposal.
another $400mil - $500mil

- new 12k indoor stadium near CBD
- Another $150mil. There goes the Entertainment Centre as the CBD draw card for concerts etc

- 'completion of the SCG upgrade' (found a reference to this on the ABC version of this news, all out of the same pork barrel but apparently this is more about the Allianzprecinct than the SCG itself)
That would be $100mil - $200mil job. **** the Trumper stand is 6 years old and the Noble/Bradman stand is less than 2, so you wouldnt think they need an upgrade.

and the other big point was having a single Sydney wide SMA to rule over them all, not just some self-interested bunch of blokes from one or two of the codes skimming off the top.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

and the other big point was having a single Sydney wide SMA to rule over them all, not just some self-interested bunch of blokes from one or two of the codes skimming off the top.

The SCG Trust at the moment runs a few stadiums and the Sydney Olympic Park Authority run a few. But they have a few outside operators eg Packer runs All Phones/Superdome out at Sydney Olympic Park and do a great job. I guess it would make sense to have one body that owns and operates them like Stadium Queensland which has stadiums not just in Brisbane.

 

[Papa G]

Have never been to the SFS at Moore Park but it looked like a pretty good stadium on TV. Surprised they want to bulldoze it.

 

[The_Wookie]

The SCG Trust at the moment runs a few stadiums and the Sydney Olympic Park Authority run a few. But they have a few outside operators eg Packer runs All Phones/Superdome out at Sydney Olympic Park and do a great job. I guess it would make sense to have one body that owns and operates them like Stadium Queensland which has stadiums not just in Brisbane.

Venues NSW runs a couple as well.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Have never been to the SFS at Moore Park but it looked like a pretty good stadium on TV. Surprised they want to bulldoze it.

Its not a bad stadium but the corporate facilities and big screens and sound system etc are very 1990's. It was built in 1987 or 1988 and looks very tired compared to the SCG and of course AO and the MCG.

 

[madmug]

My Canadian mate came out to Oz in April 1991 - I took him to a Port v Norwood game at Footy Park and let him experience the old Port women in the front row of the members and then over the 1992/93 Christmas New Years period I took him to the cricket. We talked a lot about sports and the different markets around the world. He told me about the NFL case and the 500,000-700,000 rule of thumb and the National Hockey League back then had many of the Canadian cities that were in that zone and two of the US teams. Calgary was about 700k then, now 1.3mil thanks to the tar sands of northern Alberta, Edmonton about 900k now only 1.1mil as the tar sands haven't helped them as much, Winnipeg about 600k now 750k, Quebec city about 600k now 750k and the Ottawa-Hull metro area had about 900k now about 1.1mil. Buffalo NY state which is up near Niagara Falls border area had/have a team and population was about 800k then but now about 1.0mil. Hartford in upstate Connecticut was about 700k and now is about 1.1mil.

Canada back then had about 27 million people, the NHL paid more money back then to its players than the AFL do to its players now. The average club payroll was around $25mil 1992 dollars. There were 8 Canadian teams and 16 USA teams, 14 in the bigger cities in the 1992-93 with the Ottawa Senators playing its debut season in 1992-93 as did the Tampa Bay Lightning.

The NHL went into expansion mode over the USA and headed to add a few more "sunbelt" teams to go with LA, San Jose and Dallas. But there have been a few strange moves and teams folding and moving around Winnipeg was kicked out in 1996. Atlanta in 1999 got a team and then ended up moving to Winnipeg in 2011 - and just like the Cleveland Browns in the NFL, this is a new Jets team. Hartford Whalers were moved to 2 mil city of Raleigh - Carolina Hurricanes, Quebec was moved to Denver 4 mil and they became Colorado Avalanche.

New teams in the sunbelt were the Florida Panthers based in Miami, Anaheim Ducks in greater LA, Arizona Coyotes in Phoenix all these metro areas are at least 4 million. They went back to Minnesota (Minneapolis-St Paul 4 mil) snow belt who lost the Stars to Dallas in 1994, but got a new team the Wild in 1997, Columbus Ohio pop 2mil in the snow belt got the Blue Jackets and Nashville a city that gets a bit of snow in the heartland of USA, population 1.7 mil got the Predators.

Bottom line, when the NHL (which is closer to the AFL than the NFL because of the Canadian aspect) expanded, they didnt move to the 700k cities but the multi million people cities. The Gold Coast market is 600,000 people with 1.8 million people up the freeway.

Morally I think Tassie deserves a team in the AFL,s**t 4 Australian Football Hall of Fame's 24 legends come from Tassie, but I dont think basing it in a city of 200k vs the alternative 100k is gonna help. The government could move all their dollars from the Hawks and Roos and give it to the team and Cadbury's, Incat and gambling guru and MONA owner/founder David Walsh could pump in a lot of $$$ but it would suck a lot of $$$ out of other sports all across Tassie. Sports fans travelling from Devonport, Burnie etc to Hobart to watch a few games of a Tassie team playing in Hobart will not have as many $$$ for other sports teams in their local area.

But a Tassie team would have to be just like the smaller city Canadian based NHL teams - own their own stadium and make great returns to compete with the teams from the big 3 Canadian cities and big US cities. The Canadian teams dont have to share their stadiums with NBA teams and other events. Tassie would have to find that sort of comparative advantage. I have a copy of a 2011 Uni Toronto business case study/report - The New Economics of the NHL: Why Canada Can Support 12 Teams and it shows that in 2007-08, 6 of the top 7 average revenues earned per game from season tickets and other sales came from the Canadian teams and Edmonton was the smallest market then, because Winnipeg still didnt have a team, did better than 23 of the 24 US teams.

So a Tassie team would have to do something innovative to make sure it sold out every game, so just like the Canadians are hockey mad over their southern cousins and sell out their stadiums, the footy mad Tassie fans would have to sell out their stadium over the 4 northern teams were the market for footy is semi luke warm just like the hockey market is lukewarm in the sunbelt cities of the NHL.

The AFL is like the NHL in many ways. Its preference is to go to the bigger markets, where the passion isnt really there, but use subsidies to prop them up to try for long term gains in the bigger cities. In the NHL, national TV contracts are shared, but local ones, the local teams keep the revenue. So Canadian broadcasters pay the big $$$ but the monies get equally shared with the poor viewing US teams. The Uni of Toronto business study I have says

"NHL hockey is an attendance business. A high level of local fan support is essential for a team’s success because, unlike the situation in other North American professional sports leagues, ticket sales are by far the largest single source of revenue. According to the 2004 Levitt report ....... gate accounted for 52 per cent of league revenues....... NHL teams also earn significant additional attendance-related money after selling a seat through food sales, other concessions and advertising inside the arena. What the Levitt report termed “in arena revenue”—which included some fees from luxury boxes and premium seats—made up an additional 21 per cent of the average NHL team’s revenue .....In other words, according to the most credible public source
on league finances, tickets to a game, corporate boxes, sponsorships and other attendance-related activities account for nearly three quarters of the average team’s revenue stream. To a much greater extent than teams in the NBA, MLB or NFL—leagues that, unlike the NHL, enjoy extremely lucrative
national US TV contracts—the name of the game in the NHL is “bums in seats.”

So because Tassie doesnt have the corporates of SE Qld and Sydney, that team would need to work its stadium as hard, maybe harder than Geelong does with theirs. That would be bloody hard - not impossible, but bloody hard.

The conclusion the Uni Toronto business study is interesting when comparing Tassie no team v Northern states expansion and the no further Canada NHL expansion vs USA teams expansion. It also is instructive on why 10 teams remain in Victoria.

Canada should have more than six NHL teams. There are several Canadian cities that are clearly much better locations for a team than several current American NHL cities. They have more fans and would generate significantly higher revenues. All other things being equal, a business should want to locate where unsatisfied demand is highest, and where it would have the most customers and generate the highest revenues. If the NHL were a free market, these Canadian sites would be first choices for team movement or expansion, and not treated as last resorts to be avoided at all costs. The economic
case is clear. Canada can almost certainly support 12 NHL teams.

So why does Canada not have more than six NHL teams? The answer lies in the fact that the NHL is a monopoly (or more precisely a cartel), and not a free market. It artificially limits the supply of NHL teams, and controls where they play. The answer also lies in the fact that American local governments,
responding to the cartel’s control over supply, have been willing to use taxpayer dollars to entice one of those scarce teams into locating in their city—something Canadian governments have not traditionally done. The market did not decide that Canada should only have six teams, or that Southern Ontario should only have one—the NHL did. The league has no interest in having supply meet demand, but rather benefits from ensuring that supply always remains below demand. For the NHL, this is an entirely rational strategy: artificial scarcity in the number of teams drives up their value. A team that runs into trouble in one city can be sold to a hopeful owner in another city. In contrast, a failed restaurant in Phoenix is not moved to Winnipeg; it just fails. Artificial scarcity also allows owners of even successful franchises to extract a payoff from local governments in order to move, or to stay put. All of North America’s big professional sports leagues are structured to play this game. Artificial scarcity allows owners to create bidding wars among local
governments, with the city offering the most attractive subsidy package being granted a franchise. These subsidies generally take the form of building a stadium or arena with taxpayer dollars, and then allowing the team to play there at very low rent, or no rent at all. Canadian governments have largely stayed out of this game. Local American governments, in contrast, rarely refuse to play.

The barrier to Canada hosting more NHL teams is not economic. The barrier is legal and political.

I think the Tassie team v too many teams in Victoria v northern expansion arguments are legal, political, ego driven, power and economic.

I just read this excellent peace. the one team one city makes sense North America. Clearly the NHL & NFL are a lot more commercially run than the AFL. Having effectively a one city cartel is expensive & reduces the spending the AFL might do both on its teams but on development of the game in general. The other point is that people outside the Victorian Goldfish bowl can see what a self preserving system it is. The AFL claims to be the custodians of the game. They are merely the custodians of the VFL.

 

[western royboy]

- converting ANZ to a permanent square format (Dogs/Rabbitohs).
There is $400mil at least maybe as high as $700mil as you would have to shift the whole of the eastern stand ( or western stand) by 25m. That massive 200m arch will have to come down. There are 30,000 seats in each of the eastern and western stands so a minimum of $10,000 per seat for the conversion. Will be interesting if they touch the northern or southern end to bring them closer to the try zones as that will be expensive as it effects the way the western stand would stay put - well it would have to be adjusted if the end stands come in. The government gets the full control of the stadium in 2031 - it was a BOOT project.

- replacement 30k stadium in the west (WSW/Eels). First cab off the rank, expected to be open 2019.
$200mil would be a cheapie so probably $300mil+ given AAMI Park in Melbourne 31,000 capacity cost $286 mil about 5 years ago.

- replacement 50k stadium for Moore park (Waratahs/Roosters). Down from the original 65k proposal.
another $400mil - $500mil

- new 12k indoor stadium near CBD
- Another $150mil. There goes the Entertainment Centre as the CBD draw card for concerts etc

- 'completion of the SCG upgrade' (found a reference to this on the ABC version of this news, all out of the same pork barrel but apparently this is more about the Allianzprecinct than the SCG itself)
That would be $100mil - $200mil job. **** the Trumper stand is 6 years old and the Noble/Bradman stand is less than 2, so you wouldnt think they need an upgrade.

Edit Found the link to the Daily Telegraph article and a few others.
http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au/news/nsw-government-announce-1-billion-stadium-upgrades/
NSW Premier Mike Baird and Minister for Sport Stuart Ayres have today announced a $1 billion commitment to invest in new and old stadiums in Sydney. As a part of the announcement, a new 30,000-seat stadium will be built on the site of the current Parramatta stadium, a new rectangular stadium at Moore Park, seating between 50,000 and 55,000, and a new indoor arena near Sydney’s CBD. Further to the commitment includes a new outer western Sydney sporting venue, a possible retractable roof and redevelopment of ANZ Stadium and the completion of the SCG upgrade.
http://sportsbusinessinsider.com.au/news/nsw-government-announce-1-billion-stadium-upgrades/
From NSW Govt press release
http://www.nsw.gov.au/news/1-billion-sydney-stadiums
New and old stadiums across Sydney will receive more than $1 billion investment during the next decade with the first project being a new 30,000 seat stadium in Parramatta. NSW Premier Mike Baird said Sydney needed world class sporting venues and that the investment would ensure fans and sporting teams had the facilities they deserved.

“Our first priority is building a new 30,000 seat stadium at Parramatta on the site of the existing facility, with work to begin as soon as possible and construction expected to be completed by 2019,” Mr Baird said. “This huge investment in our stadia will boost our capacity to attract big ticket events to NSW, as well as create and support thousands of jobs.”

Along with the Parramatta stadium, other upgrades and new stadiums will include a:

• new rectangular stadium at Moore Park with 50,000 to 55,000 seats
• redevelopment of Stadium Australia that could include a retractable roof
• new indoor arena near the CBD
• new outer western Sydney sporting venue
• completion of the SCG upgrade.

$600 million has been set aside in Rebuilding NSW and the NSW Government will provide a further allocation of funding to complete the projects.
http://www.nsw.gov.au/news/1-billion-sydney-stadiums
Daily Telegraph
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ums-set-to-begin/story-fni0cx12-1227511776729
THE biggest overhaul of Sydney’s sports stadiums is set to begin under a plan worth more than $1 billion announced by the Premier today, with priority being on a new 30,000-seat stadium in Parramatta.

A world-class football stadium will also be built at Moore Park, while Sydney’s former Olympics Stadium could be fully roofed and transformed into a permanent rectangular arena.

A 12,000-seat indoor stadium would also be built near the city for about $200 million.

The government initially intended to invest just $600 million but Mr Baird believes at least $1.5 billion will be needed to ensure Sydney is capable of competing with Melbourne and other cities for major events: “We want to be the best city in the world and, as part of that, you need sports facilities, you need cultural facilities.’’

The first stadium to be built will be home for the Western Sydney Wanderers and Parramatta Eels.The existing Pirtek Stadium will be demolished, with the new $300 million venue expected to open by early 2019.

A new hi-tech rectangular stadium of up to 55,000 seats at Moore Park will be the second stadium built. It will be built on the site of the antiquated Allianz Stadium — home to the Waratahs and Sydney Roosters — but building work is not expected to begin until the Parramatta venue is open.

Mr Baird also said there would be a new indoor arena close to the CBD and a new outer western Sydney sporting venue

The Cabinet meeting will be told at least $350 million should be invested at Sydney Olympic Park’s ANZ Stadium, the city’s biggest venue with 83,500 seats.

Mr Baird will insist the NRL guarantee its grand final and at least one State of Origin match be played in Sydney for at least 20 years.

ANZ bosses have developed a plan to move every seat across the stadium’s six levels up to 20m closer to the action, complete with a sliding roof. This is being promoted as Sydney’s own Wembley. The only catch is the $600 million price tag — $250 million more than the Premier’s commitment. Government sources say a new super trust to manage all major venues may decide Allianz only requires a renovation rather than a complete rebuild. The extra money could then be pumped into ANZ.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/ne...ums-set-to-begin/story-fni0cx12-1227511776729

A roofed ANZ Stadium/Stadium Australia at Sydney Olympic Park

Sydney Olympic Park is hardly Rabbitoh heartland REH - I'm sure they'll come back to Moore Park very soon

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Sydney Olympic Park is hardly Rabbitoh heartland REH - I'm sure they'll come back to Moore Park very soon

I never said it was. That first line saying Dog/Rabbitohs was a cut an paste from the post I quoted - that's who calls it their home ground at the moment. CEO Shane Richardson stitched up a geat long term deal at Stadium Australia. I dont know when it runs out and I guess it depends on which gets upgraded first the SFS or Stadium Oz and who will offer them the best long term deal.

 

[western royboy]

I never said it was. That first line saying Dog/Rabbitohs was a cut an paste from the post I quoted - that's who calls it their home ground at the moment. CEO Shane Richardson stitched up a geat long term deal at Stadium Australia. I dont know when it runs out and I guess it depends on which gets upgraded first the SFS or Stadium Oz and who will offer them the best long term deal.

Can't see a future for ANZ stadium under this model - would be better off doing a good job of Parra & Allianz & bulldozing it and upgrading Spotless or whatever they call it for the Bulldogs

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Can't see a future for ANZ stadium under this model - would be better off doing a good job of Parra & Allianz & bulldozing it and upgrading Spotless or whatever they call it for the Bulldogs

The key to ANZ working long term is you need a big university ie 15,000 students on Sydney Olympic Park, 30,000 people working there every day and 25,000+ living in the precinct which is basically the sort of numbers the Sydney Olympic Park Authority's 2030 Masterplan envisages. The government takes full control of ANZ at the end of 2031. The other key is having a direct train service there. Currently except for the really big events and a handful direct services each day, you have to catch the train to Lidcombe, walk a few minutes up and over the rail lines to the Lidcombe Sprint train which runs every 10 minutes to Olympic Park.

If you take a map of Sydney and draw a horzitonal line and a vertical line so that they produce 4 quadrants which have same number of people living in it then those lines meet about 2km east and less than 1 km north of ANZ. So the ctachment area is there. They just have to make it easier to get there and not such a pain in the arse getting in and out of SOP when you get a decent crowd.

You get the crowds going out to the Superdome / All Phones arena next to it. Madison Square Garden in NY is no.1 in the world for venue attendance for a indoor arena then its daylight, but the Superdome is regularly between 2nd and 5th in the world and not much between those spots. ANZ need to get the right games out there just like the Superdome gets great events people want to go to.

 

[western royboy]

The key to ANZ working long term is you need a big university ie 15,000 students on Sydney Olympic Park, 30,000 people working there every day and 25,000+ living in the precinct which is basically the sort of numbers the Sydney Olympic Park Authority's 2030 Masterplan envisages. The government takes full control of ANZ at the end of 2031. The other key is having a direct train service there. Currently except for the really big events and a handful direct services each day, you have to catch the train to Lidcombe, walk a few minutes up and over the rail lines to the Lidcombe Sprint train which runs every 10 minutes to Olympic Park.

If you take a map of Sydney and draw a horzitonal line and a vertical line so that they produce 4 quadrants which have same number of people living in it then those lines meet about 2km east and less than 1 km north of ANZ. So the ctachment area is there. They just have to make it easier to get there and not such a pain in the arse getting in and out of SOP when you get a decent crowd.

You get the crowds going out to the Superdome / All Phones arena next to it. Madison Square Garden in NY is no.1 in the world for venue attendance for a indoor arena then its daylight, but the Superdome is regularly between 2nd and 5th in the world and not much between those spots. ANZ need to get the right games out there just like the Superdome gets great events people want to go to.

Waverley was in the geographic centre of Melbourne.....we all know how that ended and as a former resident of sin city - you know how people have this aversion to travel and the like - it sounds good in theory but in practice? 65k at Moore Park plus upgraded Parra would suffice

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Waverley was in the geographic centre of Melbourne.....we all know how that ended and as a former resident of sin city - you know how people have this aversion to travel and the like - it sounds good in theory but in practice? 65k at Moore Park plus upgraded Parra would suffice

Parramatta is the geographic centre of the Sydney basin, Concord is the demographic centre ie the 4 quadrants. I dont think pre 2000 there were as many people east of Waverley Park as there were west but I could be wrong.

The SFS at Moore Park has been scaled back to "new rectangular stadium at Moore Park with 50,000 to 55,000 seats" according to the Daily Telegraph article I quoted.

 

[chiwigi]

Have never been to the SFS at Moore Park but it looked like a pretty good stadium on TV. Surprised they want to bulldoze it.

It's dated in the way most 90's stadia have dated, poor foresight.

As for AFL not getting anything, are you effing kidding me. The AFL are the reason the Olympic stadium is so crap, the GWS had millions chucked at them and the upgrade of the SCG was for the Swans as much as cricket. For a minority sport it has received shitloads. Compare that to funding in SA for rugby, league and soccer.

 

[chiwigi]

Sydney Olympic Park is hardly Rabbitoh heartland REH - I'm sure they'll come back to Moore Park very soon

No chance, our support is Sydney wide now its a romantic ideal but would be a long term mistake.

 

[The_Wookie]

Found this interesting.

The FFA has done a deal with the SMA that Adelaide United werent party to until practically kick off on Friday night. Adelaide had no say in the venue used.
http://www.news.com.au/sport/footba...for-victory-draw/story-fndm8jzo-1227564628067

We don’t pick these venues we didn’t pick this game on this date,’’ Griffin said.

“The venue and the date were allocated by the FFA.

“We had no say in it, we’d like to be very heavily involved if we’re doing it again and say look “we think it should be round three or round four.

“People know the A-League is on and you’ve kicked the cobwebs out, it’s simply too big a blockbuster during the first week.

“The FFA have their own separate agreement with Adelaide Oval, which is negotiated without us. There’s a contract between Adelaide Oval the SMA and FFA which we’re not a party to.

“It’s our profit and our risk.

“There are two agreements, there was an agreement months and months ago between FFA and SMA and on Wednesday I was asked to sign a match day agreement with SMA.

“I signed it at 6.30pm on the pitch on Friday night.”

 

[NoddyHolder]

Greg Griffen is a campaigner and I don't care if his franchise is being shafted.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Last week the Auditor General's annual report was table in Parliament and contained the financial statements of the AOSMA Ltd for the 12 months ended 31st October 2014 ie 1 full cricket season with 2013-14 Ashes test vs poms and the 2014 AFL season. The information isnt as detail as I had hoped especially the breakdown of the monies collected in trust for the SACA and SANFL like we got in last years annual report ie the monies collected from Stadium Club memberships, the 32 x 18 people super boxes and the AOSMA Footy membership incomes. So its hard to work out exactly what is what but you get a decent sort of indication. You can down load the report - at

https://www.audit.sa.gov.au/Publications/Annual-reports/2015-Reports
and click on the following link and the AOSMA Ltd financials start at page 158 of the report. Dowloading the report is supper slow at the moment - takes about 8-10 minutes to down load a 482 MB file for Volume 1 of the 5 volumes. I will put some thoughts and extracts in following posts after i find stuff I put in this thread from last years report and spreadsheets I made and linked in here.

Appendix to the Annual Report - Volume 1 482.88 MB Download

 

[Malibu#27]

A 482meg document volume. Wtf is in it and why is it that big

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

The related part transaction ie Note 17 to the accounts is probably the most interesting part of the accounts. Rucci wrote last year that the SANFL got $14.9mil out of AO in 2014 and most of that would have been net revenue with very little associated costs. If that is right then the note below suggests that the SACA only got $300k out of it. The spreadsheet I have prepared and post in here late last year and I will find and put up the link, I estimated that the SANFL from its 69.7% share of the Stadium Club membership fees, plus 77% share of the 32 Superbox fees - the percentages come from last years accounts and how these revenue streams were collected on trust for the 2 bodies and distrubted to them, plus the fees from AOSMA Footy Membership fees which in 2014 the SANFL got 100% - was approximately $10.5mil - net of GST and that the commission paid for food and beverage sales equalled $4.4mil.

There must be something missing as the SACA had to get more than just $300k.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

A 482meg document volume. Wtf is in it and why is it that big

The Auditor General audits about 60 government departments, agencies and corporations. That's why its spread out over 5 volumes as full accounts for each organisation is presented ie about 600 pages per volume. The AOSMA Ltd only has about 30 pages

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Back on page 228 of this thread I put up my spreadsheet showing how I calculated the SANFL earning $10.5mil from their share of Stadium Club membership fees, the 32 Super box fees and AOSMA Footy membership fees. ie the non catering component of the $14.9mil Rucci wrote about that the SANFL earned from AO for the year ended 31st October 2014.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threa...shift-happening.554729/page-228#post-37385795

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Any SACA members out there got their 2014/15 annual report? They have pulled their annual reports page download page down.