Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

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jmac70 said:
If you are not prepared to clarify your view of what constitutes performance how do you expect anybody to take you seriously?
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Ok jmac Ill repeat it yet again. An effective gameplan, the ability to motivate players, no more ridiculous team selections, to get the team players playing for one another as a cohesive unit, to be able to man manage different players and not simply dump them because he cannot get the best out of them etc. The player exodus has been extraordinary under his reign and it needs to stop. The list goes on.

Ive always said if we lose we lose but its the way we lose that matters.
 
Personally I think we are in a far better position now than we would have been had MM stayed. I think the list in a better place and at the end of the day it is the list that goes out there and wins the game. Of all the players we have lost I would only see Daisy, Heater and Beams as making us potentially better. Even then, Heater is the only one where we had a real say in whether he stayed or left.

The team Bucks inherited was not capable of matching with the very best, particularly when there was a spate of long term knee injuries to critical players in 2012. After that the ageing of Jolly, Ball, Brown, Johnson, Didak, Maxwell meant that the window was closed.

We then had to rebuild the team to address our serious shortcomings. No quality ruckman, lack of pace, and lack of skill by foot. We now have a core group of first round draft picks that we can build a strong future on.

I like what has happened under Buck's reign so far. Yes it has not been perfect but I like the general direction. The strong base for the future has been set. Hopefully we start seeing the benefits of the regeneration this year.
 

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ClaytonM said:
Personally I think we are in a far better position now than we would have been had MM stayed. I think the list in a better place and at the end of the day it is the list that goes out there and wins the game. Of all the players we have lost I would only see Daisy, Heater and Beams as making us potentially better. Even then, Heater is the only one where we had a real say in whether he stayed or left.

The team Bucks inherited was not capable of matching with the very best, particularly when there was a spate of long term knee injuries to critical players in 2012. After that the ageing of Jolly, Ball, Brown, Johnson, Didak, Maxwell meant that the window was closed.

We then had to rebuild the team to address our serious shortcomings. No quality ruckman, lack of pace, and lack of skill by foot. We now have a core group of first round draft picks that we can build a strong future on.

I like what has happened under Buck's reign so far. Yes it has not been perfect but I like the general direction. The strong base for the future has been set. Hopefully we start seeing the benefits of the regeneration this year.
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Getting a bunch of 1st round draft picks is great but isn't something you should be congratulating the coach for.

We have a lot of potential in our youth but Buckley still needs to prove he is in the top 4 coaches in the AFL, the time for going backwards is over.

Our gameplan has gone downhill DRASTICALLY since 2010, where we were the ones leading the way. Since then our forward line has been a mess and we are one of the worst teams in the AFL at transitioning the ball from defence to offence.

What have you liked under Bucks reign apart from trading out established players for draft picks? (which is more the list manager's area of expertise).


I'm not on the sack Bucks bandwagon, but equally I don't understand the "give Bucks a free pass because we got some high draft picks" line of thought either.
 

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I try to stay away from this debates of late, I really do.
But it's really hard when I read garbage like Bucks took over a side that wasn't capable of matching it with the best, keeping in mind we just came of the best home and away season in Club's history and aren't the only ones to deal with injuries and retirements.
It doesn't take a genius to trade established stars for high draft picks but keeping the side united, earning respect of the established players, showing coaching nous, minimising injury toll is another ball game.
Yes we do have nice kids coming through but so does half the comp, we will most likely miss the finals for the next 2 years and when and if our kids come good the new franchises and a couple of other sides will be at least as good as ours.
Basically I'm of the opinion we'll need a miracle to get close to the flag in the next 4/5 years.
And people that are happy with what has happened under Bucks have our Club's haters for company.

tl:dr optimism is fine but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining
 
PieBeast said:
I try to stay away from this debates of late, I really do.
But it's really hard when I read garbage like Bucks took over a side that wasn't capable of matching it with the best, keeping in mind we just came of the best home and away season in Club's history and aren't the only ones to deal with injuries and retirements.
It doesn't take a genius to trade established stars for high draft picks but keeping the side united, earning respect of the established players, showing coaching nous, minimising injury toll is another ball game.
Yes we do have nice kids coming through but so does half the comp, we will most likely miss the finals for the next 2 years and when and if our kids come good the new franchises and a couple of other sides will be at least as good as ours.
Basically I'm of the opinion we'll need a miracle to get close to the flag in the next 4/5 years.
And people that are happy with what has happened under Bucks have our Club's haters for company.

tl:dr optimism is fine but don't piss down my back and tell me it's raining
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The main difference between you and me is where you thought we were at the end of 2011. Despite what happened during that year I believe that Hawks, Geelong and Sydney had better lists by the end of 2011. Mix that with the fact our game plan was on the way out and it was game over as far as winning the flag.

I like lots of us got caught in the hubris of 2010/11. But on reflection the 2011 prelim against the Hawks and the GF showed that we were on the decline. The talent wasn't there to match the very best.
 
Kappa said:
It's not about Buckley v MM, it's about Buckley V the best candidate available atm. What is best for the club
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Agreed but would tossing out Buckley now make us better? in the short term I doubt it because it would cause huge disruptions within the club.

Secondly, who is it we could get? You can throw up all the names you like (eg Clarkson) but the question is can we get the best.

Like Buckley or not I think getting rid of him before now would have been a mistake. Having started in the job you have to give it time. If things go really poorly this year, or there isn't real improvement over the next two years then we should be looking to replace him. But any change unti then is likely to be more negative than positive.
 
Kappa said:
3 years is a long time for an AFL coach, most aren't so lucky.
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Yeah, but most coaches probably get sacked too soon by weak clubs who cave in to pressure from outside, including from fans. I'm glad we dont. Look at Carlton, Melbourne, St Kilda, Gold Coast, now even the Dogs, Richmond until recently. Not where we want to be.

We need to keep on this path for this season, and into 2016. Our kids will improve this year. We need them to work together, get the chemistry going, the familiarity with each others' play.

Lets review this again at the end of the season.
 
ClaytonM said:
The main difference between you and me is where you thought we were at the end of 2011. Despite what happened during that year I believe that Hawks, Geelong and Sydney had better lists by the end of 2011. Mix that with the fact our game plan was on the way out and it was game over as far as winning the flag.

I like lots of us got caught in the hubris of 2010/11. But on reflection the 2011 prelim against the Hawks and the GF showed that we were on the decline. The talent wasn't there to match the very best.
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I'm not saying our list was capable of dynasty but we were a very powerful side. And to stay on top we needed some tweaking, not a full demolition of the side. In 2012, the only year I give Bucks a pass mark, we had a horrific injury run and JMac's tragedy yet still made a prelim.
Now we're miles away from contending and comforting ourselves with hopes of bright future.
Even Ed is on the record saying it will be considered a failure if we don't win the flag in the first 3 years of Bucks' tenure, so no amount of re-writing history and saying we were in need of a rebuild changes the fact things clearly didn't go according to plan.
So I can understand people trying to stay positive and optimistic about our future, after all thats what all supporters do but I can't fathom why would anyone be happy with what has happened to date under Bucks.
 
PieBeast said:
I'm not saying our list was capable of dynasty but we were a very powerful side. And to stay on top we needed some tweaking, not a full demolition of the side. In 2012, the only year I give Bucks a pass mark, we had a horrific injury run and JMac's tragedy yet still made a prelim.
Now we're miles away from contending and comforting ourselves with hopes of bright future.
Even Ed is on the record saying it will be considered a failure if we don't win the flag in the first 3 years of Bucks' tenure, so no amount of re-writing history and saying we were in need of a rebuild changes the fact things clearly didn't go according to plan.
So I can understand people trying to stay positive and optimistic about our future, after all thats what all supporters do but I can't fathom why would anyone be happy with what has happened to date under Bucks.
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Because as it has always been it is the list that plays and wins the game and not the coach, and the list Buckley inherited was in decline and shallow on top end talent coming through. The list was suffering from a long period in the finals (no access to the top echelon of kids each year) and the trading of top draft picks for Wood, Jolly and Ball in the final few years of MM.

Given our list profile at the end of 2011 we may have been able to win in 2012 but injuries killed any chance of that. After that many of the key players were in decline and there was limited top end young talent coming through after Sidebottom and Beams because of our trading. Hell in one year Jackson Payne was our first live pick in the draft at about fifty. Our decline has much to do with those trading decisions leading up to 2010.

I am happy because we could have put our heads in the sand and kept thinking we could win the flag with a bit of tinkering. But we haven't. We have taken decisive action to rebuild for our next tilt. It is going to be really hard to compete against Gold Coast and GWS over the next decade, you have to have a really strong list if you are to have any chance.
 
ClaytonM said:
Because as it has always been it is the list that plays and wins the game and not the coach, and the list Buckley inherited was in decline and shallow on top end talent coming through. The list was suffering from a long period in the finals (no access to the top echelon of kids each year) and the trading of top draft picks for Wood, Jolly and Ball in the final few years of MM.

Given our list profile at the end of 2011 we may have been able to win in 2012 but injuries killed any chance of that. After that many of the key players were in decline and there was limited top end young talent coming through after Sidebottom and Beams because of our trading. Hell in one year Jackson Payne was our first live pick in the draft at about fifty. Our decline has much to do with those trading decisions leading up to 2010.

I am happy because we could have put our heads in the sand and kept thinking we could win the flag with a bit of tinkering. But we haven't. We have taken decisive action to rebuild for our next tilt. It is going to be really hard to compete against Gold Coast and GWS over the next decade, you have to have a really strong list if you are to have any chance.
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It's similar to when the Pies dropped down in 2006 and picked up Thomas & Pendelbury, then Beams & Sidebottem. We've had a lot of top 20 draft picks in the last few years. MM was given 10 years to win a flag, 3 more than any non premiership winning coach has lasted. Bucks deserves at least 5 to 6 years IMO
 
PieBeast said:
I'm not saying our list was capable of dynasty but we were a very powerful side. And to stay on top we needed some tweaking, not a full demolition of the side. In 2012, the only year I give Bucks a pass mark, we had a horrific injury run and JMac's tragedy yet still made a prelim.
Now we're miles away from contending and comforting ourselves with hopes of bright future.
Even Ed is on the record saying it will be considered a failure if we don't win the flag in the first 3 years of Bucks' tenure, so no amount of re-writing history and saying we were in need of a rebuild changes the fact things clearly didn't go according to plan.
So I can understand people trying to stay positive and optimistic about our future, after all thats what all supporters do but I can't fathom why would anyone be happy with what has happened to date under Bucks.
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Ed would have made that comment thinking that the side would stay together for at least two of the three years.
Long term injuries, faster than expected declines in players like Jolly, Didal etc, MM in Daisy's ear from day 1, sooks being sooks. Nah not happy with what happened in 13 and 14 but don't want Bucks' head on a platter yet.
 
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