Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)
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Do you understand what the word parroting means?
Oh yes there's something definitely going on.
I think the God question continues because of the human ability for intuitive thought.
You'll will get people debating the " God question " mixed in with the " Book Question".
Should be another thread but this is a Footy Forum so I can't complain.
This is not true, if you dont believe in a religions god you can be a pantheist, just like einstein was.Many great minds were pantheists.
I do not have problems with atheists, many atheists are intelligent people but militant atheists are a problem.I left this debate due to shitloads of personal abuse over a simple discussion.
I dont label them, they label themselves.I dont believe in the god of religion myself, i dont consider myself a theist.
The 2nd paragraph i totally agree with
actually i am what you would call a ship jumper i was raised catholic until i found myself not believing, its not some revelation it occurred over time in my early 20's i had what some would call a "crisis" of faith, I no longer believed in the catholic faith but i wanted to believe in god, i was raised like many that we existed because god allowed it god gave us purpose. etc, etc. and my issues were clear ethical errors within church doctrine.
understand at this time i wasn't an atheist i wasn't even agnostic i was a theist without a church. not wanting to be led down the garden path again i went and did a secular studies course on the history of religion and the evolution of religion. and through it. i realised when it comes to faith all are completely ignorant, once you analysis what is being taught where it comes from you find its all bollocks different cultures blending together mixed with political ethos and conditions, lead to religious ideals emerging overtime. no divine inspiration no perfectly guided hand spread throughout history.
it's all crap and then when finally sit back and realise that the monotheist religions today were once all pagan and that many of the concepts of the religion have no historical grounding i realised religion for what it is. ignorance, its a structured belief system designed to re-enforce social norms of there times and quite simply got out of hand.
which is what brings me to where am today. i don't believe in god. i don't rule out the possibility of god existing, but having actually sat down done actual research about religions and what we have today I know far more about most of those the religions then most people who are supposedly religious. I understand the crutch most people have, their need to believe, i went through it. i pity the vast majority.
but its also through analysing not just religion but the history of innovation and discovery how we learn, how we evolve socially. it leaves me as and out and out optimist. religion is simply another fairytale an evolutionary hang over from a time when we didn't understand the world religion is grand dad telling it was built to keep the rabbits out, rather then admit he doesn't know. We created our gods all of them. and time after time as we evolve as we learn. they retreat, they die out and a whole new areas once left to "gods" is opened for our discovery.
i still have "faith" if you'd like to talk call it that, But its faith in mankind that i have. because that is what has guided us through the centuries. each other.
If you want me believe in a man in sky however, i only ask for proof, because i'm done believing fairy tales i understand them i've studied them wrote
essays on them. all ask is the same thing i'd ask of anyone making a spectacular claim and that is evidence.
and it is this position which has lead me to but anti-religious, because religion stands in opposition to all of that, its stands against reason, against logic and against evidence, but above all it stands against mankind.
the few religions that remain are rotting apples that refuse to fall so the next generation can start to grow.
Dirtyglobalist
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No wonder, Thats exactly what the RC Church do, Lead people down the garden path, Teach no truth anyway, Worship idols etc, You get the gist.
Lol, Nice contradictions,
By the way bloods, What level Freemason are you ??
Why do you keep requesting for proof of something you don't believe in, Your an atheist, who doesn't believe in GOD, but wont rule of the possibility of him existing.
Speaking of fairytales, Do you really believe rocks turned in Dogs ??.
IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN
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Yeah nah.
Except to our knowledge, there was one chance, and nailed it on the first crack. In fact I'm fairly sure that goes quite some way beyond chance.
We're pretty happy to say aliens do exist based on the odds of it (and I'm more than happy to accept that argument), so if Boston tiger's quote is legit, and the science behind it legit, it's pretty ******* clear cut IMO.
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I pan theists all the time.
IAMJUNGLEMUFFIN
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I was like "Yeah, I can dig that". Then the pan bit gave me a flashback to Tumblr with all their SJW freeeaaaaaaks.
Pansexual, I still don't ******* know what that even means....
Got to come in all guns blazing. Rip a few apart limb from limb (Bushie style), and the front runner types go quiet fairly quickly. You're then left with more or less reasonable types. Ruling with an Iron first isn't so bad, Stalin copped a bum wrap.[/QUOTE]
you're getting more unhinged everyday. there's no contradictions in anything i posted.
if someone tells me they saw they lithgow panther, i don't 100% deny they exist.
I reply quite simply: "i don't believe you, If you want me to believe you show me some proof"
it's called evidence based logic, two things you clearly don't understand.
and no Rocks don't turn into dog's although a few Dog's have been turned into rocks, by way of fossilization.
and as for your pointless attack on the catholic church you completely misread the situation (as usual) my lack of belief stemmed being able to read, nothing to do with idol worship or any of bizarre conspiracy theories your cult group like to spread about other faiths.
and for 70,000 time freemason's believe in god they must have a religion its a core part of organisation, you cannot be an atheist and be a freemason.
you are probably the most irrational person on bigfooty.
reminds me of the time i tried online chatting back in year 7, some "girl" claimed to be a pansexual. from what i gathered "she" would pretty much root anything. a true pansexual would even be down for ******* horses.
Basically think of a mate who has "no standards" then remove the few standards he has such as "person must be alive" and you've got a "pansexual"
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But we don't know that there was only one chance. We used to think there was one planet, one sun, one solar system etc. There's no reason to think that something like that only happened once. In fact, there is no reason not to assume that such events couldn't have easily happened a near-incomprehensible amount of times. We don't know if it did. We don't know if it didn't (although, as I said, there is surely precedent NOT to assume that things in existence happen in one's). And here, in our current frontier of knowledge is where people in this discussion invoke God. Looking at the current frontiers of scientific knowledge and appointing a God of the gaps has always happened, at all times throughout most cases in recorded human history. They've always eventually been wrong. To think that you are special in this regard, that you just happen to have stumbled into the limit of what is possible to be know, is a massive display of hubris.
I still think this God question comes down to how your brain is wired. Intuitive thinking v analytical thinking or something similar. The God concept does seem to be unique to humans unless those elephants who mourn and carry on have got something going on.
GETTUCKED
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Isnt that looking at it a bit to simply though? How does your suggestion allow for people who once did not believe but now do and vice versa?
And sorry can you clarify what you are saying about the elephants? Are you saying that if you mourn the death of something you must think there is a god. How do you reach that conclusion? Not having a go, just getting some discussion going.
On the elephant thing I was making the point that the God concept is a human thing but who really knows what other life forms are capable of. Maybe if an animal mourns and carries on then then maybe they have a concept of a higher power. Wouldn't bet on it.
People believing and not believing. I thought of think that some people are just wired not to get the God concept or be able to tune into the spiritual side etc. While some can float in and out of it.
I rekon where you are the autism spectrum may be a factor. This all just what I rekon so no real basis.
doesn't really stack up. the autism thing. theres plenty of autistic believers in fact a large problem is autistic kids who believe in an afterlife is they have greater propensity to attempt suicide, they simply do the math and decide its better to be in heaven. aside from struggling with abstract ideas, its one of main issues religious education of autistic children programs cater for.
furthermore studies of religious autistics show they are more likely to take a literalist interpretation and are more likely to be religious fundamentalists and reject anything that challenges their belief system.
one of the main reasons autistic people are less likely to be believers is simply because most parents struggle to communicate and teaching their children even basic concepts, they have issues in social environments and behavior so environments such as churches aren't easy.
Given the presence of religious belief among autistic belief and devout belief at that, i simply can take claims autism and the concept of god are linked seriously. one of the main gripes i have with studies so fair is that they take random samples and don't take into account whether the child was taught religion. they simply compare belief across a spectrum and note the more severe autism the less likely they are to believe. one study even discounted religious service attendance saying it wouldn't account for the deference, even though the lack of any religious service can be an indicator of the family's level of religious belief, let alone the child's.
many of the studies completed also did not have the kids actually analysed for autism, what they did was have them take a test with questions that are associated with autism such as "do you enjoy doing the same thing the same way over and over" and then asked about their religious beliefs as well. a standardised test is a poor indicator of autism particularly when high functioning autistic children tend answer questions in a way they think others want it answered.
Until a serious indepth study is completed rather than repeating a superficial study with ever increasing numbers i won't buy it.
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The autism spectrum was a stab in the dark. I think there might be some kind of spectrum for this type of thinking though.
People believing there is a God because they have been told or read about it v those who have thought about and felt it may also be at other ends of things.
I'm just basically waffling here.
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If elephants believe in a higher power, do they believe they were made in gods image too? If so, who is right? Humans or elephants?
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A deity can be anything you like if you use a broad enough descriptor....
In most cases it ends up being "just the vibe".
Just "what I choose to believe"and I have no issue with that as long as it never effects me or mine.
People are free to believe what ever it is they wish.
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Why do they go elephant grave yards?
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