Religion The God Question (continued in Part 2 - link in last post)

[Taylor]

People can not provide absolute empirical proof of the existence of God, anymore than anyone can provide absolute empirical proof of God's non-existence.

Isn't that proof of gods non existence the lack of proof for the existence?

That is how claims about things existing are made, you prove your claim.

That is why people don't believe big foot sightings are what they are claimed to be.

Not that I'm relating religious people to big foot believers or god to big foot, there are fuzzy pictures of "big foot"

 

[Sydney Bloods]

Isn't that proof of gods non existence the lack of proof for the existence?

That is how claims about things existing are made, you prove your claim.

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is the go to defence for this. of course as usual it leaves open the question of why they don't extend the same level of consideration to all other religions. there is just as much evidence for rainbow serpent as their is for magic apples* and yet no Christian or any other god botherer would seriously consider that any god could exist but the one they subscribe too, they merely repeat the line rather then thinking it through to its obvious conclusion.

these are people who clap and celebrate as their "god" calls them sheep and views them as uneducated serfs to be lorded over. critical thinking and questioning what they believe in are not exactly at the forefront of religious thinking.

 

[Taylor]

"absence of evidence is not evidence of absence" is the go to defence for this. of course as usual it leaves open the question of why they don't extend the same level of consideration to all other religions. there is just as much evidence for rainbow serpent as their is for magic apples* and yet no Christian or any other god botherer would seriously consider that any god could exist but the one they subscribe too, they merely repeat the line rather then thinking it through to its obvious conclusion.

these are people who clap and celebrate as their "god" calls them sheep and views them as uneducated serfs to be lorded over. critical thinking and questioning what they believe in are not exactly at the forefront of religious thinking.

It is a shame that something invented to control masses of uneducated and starving people has gone on so long in a time when it is no longer needed in the Western World.

 

[Present Not Past]

Isn't that proof of gods non existence the lack of proof for the existence?

That is how claims about things existing are made, you prove your claim.

That is why people don't believe big foot sightings are what they are claimed to be.

Not that I'm relating religious people to big foot believers or god to big foot, there are fuzzy pictures of "big foot"

No, not at all. Scientists can't prove the existence of dark matter - that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Besides, there are many people who can tell you that they have "experienced" God - you don't just conjure up God in a science experiment.

 

[Present Not Past]

Yes I can.
God does not exist.
Because I have never seen any proof.
There is no proof, that I have ever seen.
C'mon God,show yourself,prove to me/us that you are here or there or anywhere.
Get it done,show me the money,give me a sign,give me something.......anything,do something.....
Waiting for Godot.

Wasn't that King Herod's line of inquisition

 

[Procrastinator35]

It is a shame that something invented to control masses of uneducated and starving people has gone on so long in a time when it is no longer needed in the Western World.

And yet here you are talking about a notion you say doesn't exist!

Much ado bout nufin from all ye of little faith....Sounds a tad obsessive to me, from all you card-carrying atheists!

We all know certain aspects of the human condition partake of the invisible mystery: Love, consciousness & the soul....Similarly, the concept/idea/notion of God/Gods, are man's answer to these invisible aspects/forces, in our lives & our universe....Ultimately, the fundamental principal is ineffable....But that's all a characteristic of the divine mystery & ultimately of true faith/belief.

Those of us who surrender ourselves over to that which is greater, find all this atheism to smack of hubris & ignorance of our true humanity & our place in the cosmos....

Atheism is nothing but a huge ego trip; where the one-eyed ogre has hold over the inner psyche, & is casting it's spell of disenchantment over it's victim....Be it socially or familiarly engendered.

Atheism is a confession of a lost soul.

 

[Present Not Past]

behold jesus in cheese toast. a chesus if you will:

checkmate atheists!

Blessed are the cheesemakers, for they shall inherit the Earth.

 

[Sydney Bloods]

No, not at all. Scientists can't prove the existence of dark matter - that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Besides, there are many people who can tell you that they have "experienced" God - you don't just conjure up God in a science experiment.

please don't bring your poor understanding of science into this. dark matter may or may not exist it is one possible explanation based on observations which have been verified and replicated by independent parties. if you can design an experiment which would produce observable evidence and verifiable evidence for your god then we can compare it to dark matter. no one with any understanding of science looks at cosmic background radiation and says "well maybe its god" such a prospect is ridiculous.

as for your believers "experience" see astral projection, hauntings, extraterrestrials and big foot, etc, etc all have proponents, many people who have "experienced" a godly presence, have also experienced one of more of the "unexplained" your arguments as usual say nothing, are not unique to a god, let alone your idea of god. Unless your telling us all of this s**t is real your being dishonest with your arguments.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Blessed are the cheesemakers, for they shall inherit the Earth.

Meek, mild & God fearing is the humble toasty cheese.

 

[Spirit Level]

Atheism is a confession of a lost soul.

Atheism is a symptom of logical thinking

 

[Bennett.]

Would you like me to conduct a survey??

Are you seriously denying my claim?

People in the bush still worship Pauline Hansen FFS.

People in the bush still attend church in greater numbers than city people.

People in the bush are notoriously more resistant to change and acceptance of people who 'don't look the same' than others.

This isn't anything new, you dummy...this is dem facts.

so.... drop the typical ad hominem crap and prove your 'facts'.

 

[chelseacarlton]

craffles there's toasties with in 'ere.
Or are you still pornabanned?

 

[Taylor]

No, not at all. Scientists can't prove the existence of dark matter - that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
Besides, there are many people who can tell you that they have "experienced" God - you don't just conjure up God in a science experiment.

Dark matter is a theory, it isn't taken as fact to lead people to their death for.

There are also many people who, not only experience god, but hear him talking, see the walls melt and the faces of those around them turn to demons.

I've travelled from one side of this planet to the other, seen a lot of strange things but I've never seen anything to make me believe there is one all powerful force that controls "everything".

Religion is the creation of powerful men to validate their position, kings protecting the church that tells the people god put the king there, and the arrogance of human kind to think that they must have more than their years here. Life truly must mean something more than the propagation of genetic material.

 

[Taylor]

And yet here you are talking about a notion you say doesn't exist!

Much ado bout nufin from all ye of little faith....Sounds a tad obsessive to me, from all you card-carrying atheists!

We all know certain aspects of the human condition partake of the invisible mystery: Love, consciousness & the soul....Similarly, the concept/idea/notion of God/Gods, are man's answer to these invisible aspects/forces, in our lives & our universe....Ultimately, the fundamental principal is ineffable....But that's all a characteristic of the divine mystery & ultimately of true faith/belief.

Those of us who surrender ourselves over to that which is greater, find all this atheism to smack of hubris & ignorance of our true humanity & our place in the cosmos....

Atheism is nothing but a huge ego trip; where the one-eyed ogre has hold over the inner psyche, & is casting it's spell of disenchantment over it's victim....Be it socially or familiarly engendered.

Atheism is a confession of a lost soul.

That you need to surrender yourself to something you see as greater in order to give your life meaning shows how small you really are.

Religion stands between human kind and achieving anything. As long as you believe you are ultimately subject to the will of a higher power you are not responsible for your actions, you don't see the chasm of opportunity for progress before you and you stay hiding in the cave.

That is why religion was invented. It will keep you from realising you are the master of your own destiny and seizing a future you believe is best. That is a problem when the overwhelming number of poor and starving realise their true position.

 

[Boston tiger]

That you need to surrender yourself to something you see as greater in order to give your life meaning shows how small you really are.

Religion stands between human kind and achieving anything. As long as you believe you are ultimately subject to the will of a higher power you are not responsible for your actions, you don't see the chasm of opportunity for progress before you and you stay hiding in the cave.

That is why religion was invented. It will keep you from realising you are the master of your own destiny and seizing a future you believe is best. That is a problem when the overwhelming number of poor and starving realise their true position.

So the poor and starving problem is going to be fixed by a world full of atheists? We are all going to become wise and caring once we all realise we are just an organisms built to survive and reproduce with no higher purpose? Just an organism that is reacting to situations through chemical reactions/ and electrical impulses so we can protect our young , find a mate and die.

Excuse my lack of biology there but this theory that God has held us back is fine in a world that has been dominated by God but take it away what have you really got? -- cells covered in skin . Doesn't God give us nobility and a higher purpose than just ..eat ..shoots ..and leaves.

If you have God you will have religion .. Humans will be humans . It's got us to a point from early man to now and in the scheme of things and as a species has it been that bad really. Just about everyone has a democracy which I'm not sure if that runs against the survival of the fitness etc.

Maybe we are such a spectacular success because of our ability to see something that is greater than the greatest human.

 

[Procrastinator35]

Atheism is a symptom of logical thinking

Devoid of soul & meaning, cut-off from the neck down.

 

[Mningasimisonda]

It may be possible to demonstrate that God exists, but will always be impossible to demonstrate that he/she/it doesn't exist.

Though it is worth asking "does it matter?". Why have God in the equation in the first place? If you can't see the point of religion X and disagree with the principles religion X puts forward, why follow it? If you do see a point to religion X and agree with its principles, are you just following what you agree with or the like minded?

I'm an atheist because I disagree with the principles of most religions. Not because some of them aren't good, but because as a whole they focus on ideas that are not achievable in reality, at least not without desolving a significant amount of self and causing a severe amount a mental trauma in the process.

I've actually found that on average the atheists that I know follow the principles I think are good better than the religious do anyway, and they follow them with truer motives, i.e. because they innately feel the urge to do right by others and improve the world, not because they are weighing up what their faith tells them to do, looking for rewards in some do good scheme, or trying to convert people to live by their rules.

 

[apparentlydead]

so.... drop the typical ad hominem crap and prove your 'facts'.

Again, how am I supposed to prove this to your required satisfaction level. Are their surveys taken on this type of thing?

Everything that I stated is broadly believed to be the case, and any casual conversation with anyone who lives in the country would confirm this.

You're the only one getting your girdle in a twist which would suggest that everyone else agrees.

Maybe you should get out of your bible lined inner city hovel and see a bit of your own country?

 

[apparentlydead]

Devoid of soul & meaning, cut-off from the neck down.

You're just trolling now.

People who derive spiritual nourishment from nature, and the wonders of the universe in general, are just making it up it seems.

To have such a narrow minded focus on what one requires to nourish ones soul and receive meaning indicates that you are the one who is shallow and desperate to have some 'thing' to cling to and believe in.

 

[Procrastinator35]

That you need to surrender yourself to something you see as greater in order to give your life meaning shows how small you really are.

Religion stands between human kind and achieving anything. As long as you believe you are ultimately subject to the will of a higher power you are not responsible for your actions, you don't see the chasm of opportunity for progress before you and you stay hiding in the cave.

That is why religion was invented. It will keep you from realizing you are the master of your own destiny and seizing a future you believe is best. That is a problem when the overwhelming number of poor and starving realize their true position.

The notion of surrender in the context presented, pertains to our mortality....That in & of itself, is not what grants life meaning....The hasty generalization of the if/then to being rendered small inside is as absurd as it is ridiculous, entailing a logical lacunae the size of the Grand canyon....It also presents a mirror to it's claimant's soul.

The second premise of your argument doesn't bear addressing, such is it's inanity....Suffice to say that the either/or assumptions given, are as droll as they are transparent.

Religion has nothing to do with 'giving-up' hope, or not trying to achieve in this life....What it does recognize, is that death is our ultimate destiny....You know 'the thing the atheist is the master over'....LOLZA.

 

[Boston tiger]

Again, how am I supposed to prove this to your required satisfaction level. Are their surveys taken on this type of thing?

Everything that I stated is broadly believed to be the case, and any casual conversation with anyone who lives in the country would confirm this.

You're the only one getting your girdle in a twist which would suggest that everyone else agrees.

Maybe you should get out of your bible lined inner city hovel and see a bit of your own country?

I found that city people are the blah blah blah and any casual conversation with anyone from the city would prove this.

 

[skipper kelly]

Would you like me to conduct a survey??

Yes please.

 

[M Malice]

because they innately feel the urge to do right by others and improve the world, not because they are weighing up what their faith tells them to do, looking for rewards in some do good scheme, or trying to convert people to live by their rules.

love that last sentence.
you should not need a higher power to guide or tell you to do the right thing. it's like saying that if there were no laws against murder, robbery etc. i wouldn't know right from wrong, i need some guiding force ie. god/government, to tell me the correct principals to live by. i am sure we wouldn't live in a society where "The Purge" was the norm if there were no laws against murder.
empathy is all you need. maybe a long time in future when our empathetic nature is more evolved we wont need man made laws or an omnipresent being to tell us how to live and the human race can have the utopia some are searching for in heaven right here on earth?

 

[skipper kelly]

love that last sentence.
you should not need a higher power to guide or tell you to do the right thing. it's like saying that if there were no laws against murder, robbery etc. i wouldn't know right from wrong, i need some guiding force ie. god/government, to tell me the correct principals to live by. i am sure we wouldn't live in a society where "The Purge" was the norm if there were no laws against murder.
empathy is all you need. maybe a long time in future when our empathetic nature is more evolved we wont need man made laws or an omnipresent being to tell us how to live and the human race can have the utopia some are searching for in heaven right here on earth?

I think it has already peaked.

 

[M Malice]

I think it has already peaked.

i think i detect a hint of sarcasm? but.
i hope you are wrong. to my understanding, by definition biological evolution is never ending.