The never ending Priddis debate - part II

[Godfather32]

So by your logic Kennedy could kick 20 goals in the first 3 quarters and none in the last and he would have had a poor game because it didn't win us the game.

Actually, what am I even saying, Priddis would get the 3 votes and be best on AFL.com

 

[Johnno22]

I agree wholeheartedly - not just because of matt but because it doesn't adequately represent the comp - it's purely a midfielders medal because that's what the umps see most of.

Of course it's a midfielders medal because arguably midfielders are the best footballers, they are the play makers and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game. How many times have you heard a coach say "it will be won in the middle".

Most posters on here regularly suggest we have a very strong forward line, a very strong defence but are lacking in the middle. This translates to the mids being of primary importance in winning games.

I have no problem with it being a midfielders medal.

 

[Godfather32]

Of course it's a midfielders medal because arguably midfielders are the best footballers, they are the play makers and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game. How many times have you heard a coach say "it will be won in the middle".

Most posters on here regularly suggest we have a very strong forward line, a very strong defense but are lacking in the middle. This translates to the mids being of primary importance in winning games.

I have no problem with it being a midfielders medal.

The problem with that is that we haven't even had an average midfield, they've been downright horrible the last two years. If we have a midfield that could at least break even every now and then, the results of the last couple of seasons would have been very different.

 

[kranky al]

Of course it's a midfielders medal because arguably midfielders are the best footballers, they are the play makers and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game. How many times have you heard a coach say "it will be won in the middle".

Most posters on here regularly suggest we have a very strong forward line, a very strong defense but are lacking in the middle. This translates to the mids being of primary importance in winning games.

I have no problem with it being a midfielders medal.

Reckon you are mostly right but there are still players that would win occasionally from outside - buddy, carey - those sorts of players.

You will never see that - ergo it is flawed.

 

[Johnno22]

The problem with that is that we haven't even had an average midfield, they've been downright horrible the last two years. If we have a midfield that could at least break even every now and then, the results of the last couple of seasons would have been very different.

And isn't that the truth.

 

[Godfather32]

And isn't that the truth.

The truth hurts
I think it's going to hurt even more this year.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Reckon you are mostly right but there are still players that would win occasionally from outside - buddy, carey - those sorts of players.

You will never see that - ergo it is flawed.

Buddy was equal third last year and missed three games - could have won it if he'd played at least a couple of those.

Lockett, Stynes, Grant*, McKernan* have won (or would have won but for suspension) in the past.

 

[Godfather32]

Buddy was equal third last year and missed three games - could have won it if he'd played at least a couple of those.

Lockett, Stynes, Grant*, McKernan* have won (or would have won but for suspension) in the past.

Lockett and Stynes both won in the late 80's/early 90's though, 25 odd years ago.

 

[Johnno22]

Buddy was equal third last year and missed three games - could have won it if he'd played at least a couple of those.

Lockett, Stynes, Grant*, McKernan* have won (or would have won but for suspension) in the past.

There are always exceptions for the superstars , especially those who regularly kicked 7 or 8 goals a game and over 1300 in a career.
Stynes, Grant and McKernan were more Ruck Rover types in their day. And Buddy, well Buddy is unique.

I would be just guessing but i would say over 90% of winners have been midfielders.

 

[Smotie]

You're right, it does shore up their argument. You make that sound like a bad thing, that the Eagles coaching panel, the collective AFL coaches, the umpires, plus the overwhelming majority of the football industry rates him highly. That we haven't won a flag in Priddis' time is not solely his fault, he's been doing his job for the team better than just about anyone over that period. Are Adelaide supporters similarly feral about Patrick Dangerfield because he hasn't lead them to a flag? Maybe Bombers fans are screaming blue murder that Jobe Watson needs to be got rid of for lack of September success? Perhaps there's a cabal of Saints supporters who've been calling for the axing of Nick Reiwoldt for years now? I mean he let Collingwood's Shaw smother that certain goal on the line in one GF, that should have been the straw that broke the camel's back!

And of course we can't forget Chris Judd, lured from West Coast to specifically bring Carlton success. Clearly their lack of success can only be attributed to Judd?

You are missing the point ENTIRELY. It is bloody hard to win a premiership. It takes a lot more than one exceptional midfielder to do it. We struggled to so it in 2006 with 3 exceptional midfielders. But THE starting point IS an exceptional midfielder (or 2 or 3 if you are lucky).
No it isn't Priddis' fault entirely we haven't won a premiership with him in the team. But we start with our so called exceptional midfielder who has won a Brownlow with all of his flaws and we are already behind the eight ball. Yes, Priddis would look better with other exceptional midfielders around him like he did when we had Judd and Kerr there but our other midfielder's don't look better with Priddis there. He is a serious deficiency that they have to make up for.

You mention these other players as if they have the same deficiencies as Priddis. This is the difference between them and Priddis, in their case, they can hold their heads high and say they by and large do everything skill wise and performance wise to get their team as far as possible. But the whole team needs to perform at a high standard to win one.

In our case we don't even start with a great midfielder.

Winning a Brownlow means s**t compared to team success. Like I said even the players themselves would trade it for a premiership in an instant. But posters in this board like you can't accept that. You think that this medal and coaches votes cancel out all the s**t he has put in over the years.

 

[WCErevival]

Why is Priddis the start though and why is he singled out? He is probably the 3rd in line midfielder right now after Shuey and Gaff.

 

[kranky al]

Why is Priddis the start though and why is he singled out? He is probably the 3rd in line midfielder right now after Shuey and Gaff.

Probably because our 3rd in line midfielder can't be rotated like a 3rd in line midfielder should - he plays 80 odd percent of game time and all of that in the guts.

This is not how the modern game is played

 

[Johnno22]

Why is Priddis the start though and why is he singled out? He is probably the 3rd in line midfielder right now after Shuey and Gaff.

I have a feeling that will be exactly the pecking order by the seasons end.

 

[kranky al]

I have a feeling that will be exactly the pecking order by the seasons end.

Sooooooooooo he's going to spend a lot more time on the bench?

 

[WCErevival]

Probably because our 3rd in line midfielder can't be rotated like a 3rd in line midfielder should - he plays 80 odd percent of game time and all of that in the guts.

This is not how the modern game is played

He plays some time on the HF. I noticed it last year. He talked about it in an interview once.

 

[kranky al]

Buddy was equal third last year and missed three games - could have won it if he'd played at least a couple of those.

Lockett, Stynes, Grant*, McKernan* have won (or would have won but for suspension) in the past.

Two of the players you mentioned are ruckman and play on the ball - keeping them in the eye of the umpire and also usually resting forward so they score a few goals - thus keeping them further in the eyes - to all intents and purposes for the point of the argument they play in the midfield as such

Chris grant - well there's one in the modern game.

 

[kranky al]

Of course it's a midfielders medal because arguably midfielders are the best footballers, they are the play makers and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game. How many times have you heard a coach say "it will be won in the middle".

Most posters on here regularly suggest we have a very strong forward line, a very strong defence but are lacking in the middle. This translates to the mids being of primary importance in winning games.

I have no problem with it being a midfielders medal.

Oh and btw - on our team alone eMac, lecras, Bunga, shuey, waters(r), cox(r), glass(r) (and if I could be farmed thinking about it I'd come up with more - this post is being knocked out in a dunny break!!) are better footballers than Priddis and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game.

The fact that he causes no hurt on the scoreboard is a large reason that our midfield isnt good enough to win games

 

[Johnno22]

Oh and btw - on our team alone eMac, lecras, Bunga, shuey, waters(r), cox(r), glass(r) (and if I could be farmed thinking about it I'd come up with more - this post is being knocked out in a dunny break!!) are better footballers than Priddis and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game.

The fact that he causes no hurt on the scoreboard is a large reason that our midfield isnt good enough to win games

I wasn't referring to Priddis as such but to midfielders in general influencing games, as they do.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

Oh and btw - on our team alone eMac, lecras, Bunga, shuey, waters(r), cox(r), glass(r) (and if I could be farmed thinking about it I'd come up with more - this post is being knocked out in a dunny break!!) are better footballers than Priddis and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game.

The fact that he causes no hurt on the scoreboard is a large reason that our midfield isnt good enough to win games

The fact that of all the players you named as being better than Priddis, only one (Shuey) is a midfielder is an even larger reason that our midfield isn't good enough to win games.

 

[kranky al]

The fact that of all the players you named as being better than Priddis, only one (Shuey) is a midfielder is an even larger reason that our midfield isn't good enough to win games.

Without a doubt - our midfield has been atrocious for a long time - but having a one paced curly locks who can't even kick let alone hit the side of a barn door and lives in the number one mids spot isn't helping.

 

[paran]

The fact that of all the players you named as being better than Priddis, only one (Shuey) is a midfielder is an even larger reason that our midfield isn't good enough to win games.

Isn't that sort of the whole point here? We really should be focussing on getting the ball to Shuey and the other better users of the footy than Priddis. Priddis getting as much ball as he does means very little unless it gets to Shuey/Gaff/Hurn/Masten/Rosa who use it better.

 

[Pottering]

You really think the umpires think long and hard about there votes? I think it's more along the lines of a cursory glance at the stats sheet and a quick poll between the 3 of them.

I'm surprised you didn't "think" they simply chose the names out of a hat. I "think" they actually might put in some effort, partially because they know how they voted will be revealed at the end of each year and they don't want it to look like like that names were simply chosen from a hat (but mostly because they'd care about the responsibility they have). But you seem to think they give it no more thought than untying their shoe laces afgter the match.

 

[Pottering]

Here's another, for those of you who like "Experts" this guy is one, it says so under his picture
http://www.theroar.com.au/2013/05/09/should-the-umpires-determine-the-brownlow-medal-winner/

When virtually all the players are parroting this line you may have a point. Interesting how he is an "expert", presumably as a current player, but ex players, coaches, ex coaches, umpires and paid professionals are summarily dismissed as of no consequence in this forum when they're labelled collectively as "experts".

 

[kranky al]

Of course it's a midfielders medal because arguably midfielders are the best footballers, they are the play makers and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game. How many times have you heard a coach say "it will be won in the middle".

Most posters on here regularly suggest we have a very strong forward line, a very strong defence but are lacking in the middle. This translates to the mids being of primary importance in winning games.

I have no problem with it being a midfielders medal.

The fact that of all the players you named as being better than Priddis, only one (Shuey) is a midfielder is an even larger reason that our midfield isn't good enough to win games.

Why is our no 1 mid not even close to being our best footballer though - when :

Of course it's a midfielders medal because arguably midfielders are the best footballers, they are the play makers and are more likely to influence the outcome of a game. How many times have you heard a coach say "it will be won in the middle".

Shuey is close to our best player. He is a midfielder. Ergo what Johnny says makes sense.

Our no1 starting mid is not in our top players - yet has a Brownlow.

What an interesting dichotomy.

 

[Miguel Sanchez]

When virtually all the players are parroting this line you may have a point. Interesting how he is an "expert", presumably as a current player, but ex players, coaches, ex coaches, umpires and paid professionals are summarily dismissed as of no consequence in this forum when they're labelled collectively as "experts".

Glenn Mitchell was a longtime ABC commentator and someone who I think actually deserves the term 'expert'.