This Hawks team. POTENTIALLY the best ever ?

[cryptor]

You can only beat what you are up against. You can only compare against their peer group, not from one generation to the next.

For the purpose of "best ever", the squiggle is brilliant IMO.

This group isn't even close to the 88 all-stars.View attachment 55373 View attachment 55374

Notice though that 2014 Hawks are positioned far more favourably than the 1988 Hawks were at the same point of the season. There's still a lot of road to travel.

 

[BOP66]

John Kennedy Senior will always be our greatest coach. Always.

This is so true. Even Clarko himself would agree & personally I feel Al will win the most flags for our great club.

 

[hawker92]

North Melbourne 1993-2000 V Hawthorn 1971-1978 for what its worth...

1993: 13/7 (4th), PRELIMINARY FINAL
1994: 13/9 (4th), PRELIMINARY FINAL
1995: 14/8 (6th), PRELIMINARY FINAL
1996: 16/6 (2nd), FLAG
1997: 12/10 (7th), PRELIMINARY FINAL
1998: 16/6 (1st), RUNNERS UP
1999: 17/5 (2nd), FLAG
2000: 14/8 (4th), PRELIMINARY FINAL

1971: 19/3 (1st), FLAG
1972: 13/9 (6th), MISSED FINALS
1973: 11/11 (7th), MISSED FINALS
1974: 15/7 (3rd), PRELIMINARY FINAL
1975: 17/5 (1st), RUNNER UP
1976: 16/6 (2nd), FLAG
1977: 17/5 (2nd), PRELIMINARY FINAL
1978: 16/6 (2nd), FLAG

Throw in our little 2008-2014 run and its pretty obvious why the flogs on Swan the Coach despise us. We've pretty much owned the competition, aside from 12 year abyss (1995-2007) since the NASA put a man on the moon

Bolded is eerily similar to recent times:
2008 - Flag
2009 - Missed finals
2010 - Elimination final
2011 - Prelim final
2012 - Runners up
2013 - Flag

 

[WillowSF]

Not close to the 83-91 teams but this team has been extremely consistent. We have been the best team over the past 3 years. Missed opportunities in 2011 and 2012 are disappointing but you move on. 2009 was also a debacle looking back on our talent. I'm on the bearish side for our mid term future given that our midfield guns are all on the wrong side of 30. The kids coming through are good but at this stage lack the sheer class of a Mitchell or Burgoyne. I also think the missed draft picks of Dowler, Thorp, Munston, Ellis & Bailey are going to still be costly in the long term.

 

[lyger]

Not even in the same universe as our 1988 team which is the best I've seen.

Mind you that says a lot about how thinly talent is spread among the league nowadays. Back then our team was literally stuffed to the gills with stars, and I don't mean stars in the modern-day football media sense, where literally anyone can 'earn' themselves the tag by playing two or three good games or pulling on a Collingwood or Essendon jumper. Hello Jamie Elliot.

One thing I will say is that this year's side has really struck me as being the most disciplined and team-first oriented since our 80's/90's glory era. I can't think of a better way to compliment the work Al Clarkson has done.

Yep, the 1988 team was a champion team full of champions. So unbelievably good.
Also agree about the current team and being disciplined. So finely tuned.

 

[JoondalupJ]

Obviously 86-89 tem has a lot to say, and the potential is unfilled.

But assuming they can achieve similar success, how do they rate ? On what we have seen so far.

Immediately we think of the geelong question, and that the 86-89 team would be the one inflicting mental demons on other sides. But they did have losses to other top teams of the era

But im really questioning rather than stating here

I remember when I first got on bigfooty one of the questions was what is your football dream, I said getting back the golden years of the eighties when Hawks were kings, well we are very close Hawk people, very close. Yabby then... Clarko now... and I believe the hard disciplinary style and the capability to instill the need to win , is in Clarko deep, big time, he is John Kennedy senior in a lot of ways, Those three were/are exceptional men in and out of football. The culture they develop is the key to a family club like the Hawks , we'll win we'll fall over and we'll get back on the horse, as the last five or six years have shown. Its what makes great clubs.

 

[Davo23]

Obviously 86-89 tem has a lot to say, and the potential is unfilled.

But assuming they can achieve similar success, how do they rate ? On what we have seen so far.

Immediately we think of the geelong question, and that the 86-89 team would be the one inflicting mental demons on other sides. But they did have losses to other top teams of the era

But im really questioning rather than stating here

Can we lock this stupid thread now?

.

 

[Pessimistic]

Can we lock this stupid thread now?

.

How many losses in 2-3 years ? Good job there was no internet in the eighties.

With the turnover in players the best parallel would be the mid eighties, and remember its going to be easier to recruit going forward

 

[Davo23]

How many losses in 2-3 years ? Good job there was no internet in the eighties.

With the turnover in players the best parallel would be the mid eighties, and remember its going to be easier to recruit going forward

I would also ban you for starting the thread.
For life.

For someone named Pessimistic, you're unbelievably optimistic.

 

[Pessimistic]

Youd have no posters on that criteria.

Enjoy that

 

[Hodge2NormSmith]

Absolutely. Can tick off the boxes on the way. You cant win a premiership in may

But you can lose one.

Can we revisit this if we manage to overcome injuries and finish top 4.

Even better, if we win the Premiership re-open this and not before.

 

[Procrastinator35]

But you can lose one.

Can we revisit this if we manage to overcome injuries and finish top 4.

Even better, if we win the Premiership re-open this and not before.

This year will tell the story so far as answering your Fred Pepsi-Mystic !

 

[mustang]

Going back to back this year which would give us 3 GF appearances in a row and 2 flags would be a good start
If they backed that up next year with a three peat then you would have to seriously consider it as Hawks have never done that before
Gotta win this year first to even start the conversation though

2 down 2013/2014 1 to go lets hope it's a 3 peat in 2015.

 

[Pessimistic]

Jono Brown was on tonight describing the lions 2001-4 team.

I was thinking that even though our current team could go bbb, head to head theyd struggle against the lions. Just too many champions whereas the current hawks, while having pretty good players, are more a structured team

 

[Matt Stevic]

Jono Brown was on tonight describing the lions 2001-4 team.

I was thinking that even though our current team could go bbb, head to head theyd struggle against the lions. Just too many champions whereas the current hawks, while having pretty good players, are more a structured team

I think part of it is that we are retrospectively looking at this hat Lions team. History will cast our current crew in the same light if we win this year.

 

[Brishawk]

Jono Brown was on tonight describing the lions 2001-4 team.

I was thinking that even though our current team could go bbb, head to head theyd struggle against the lions. Just too many champions whereas the current hawks, while having pretty good players, are more a structured team

The current Hawk team would wipe the floor with the lions. Its a very different game now so that is not intended as disrespect. Fitness, skills and tactics of the game have come a long way in the past ten years. The Lions were not the greatest team in the land through home and away and they weren't even unbeatable in finals. But they did know how to get the job done on the last day in September. If Port had not been such chokers I think Lions would have won 2 and port 2 in that period. But credit to the Lions their legacy will not be forgotten.

 

[Roddy]

Yeah, was thinking about that right through watching that. The current Hawks aren't overly individually brilliant, especially with Buddy gone. We're not the most physically imposing team of all time. What this current Hawk team is is just a generally tough, skilled and above all even side who gets the job done. Simple as that. And for that, we are already among the upper echelons of the greatest teams of all time. Win again this year and we can lay claim to being the GOAT. Not clear cut and above all debate of course, but we enter that ballpark.

 

[cryptor]

Brown described the Lions threepeat side as a very good contested footy side. Probably a good indication of why despite never topping the ladder they were so good in finals.

That said, this Hawks side is a pretty damn good contested side also. The fact we're so good at the uncontested side of things probably hides that a bit. Much how like our great scoring power often overshadows what is an exceptionally good defense (team defense, not just our backline).

 

[Pessimistic]

Of all the hypothetical contests, id love to see that one

One illustration of hawthorns evenness is fantasy footy. Not too many hawks outstanding but the team in front value wise by a fair bit

 

[HR Roughnstuf]

Jono Brown was on tonight describing the lions 2001-4 team.

I was thinking that even though our current team could go bbb, head to head theyd struggle against the lions. Just too many champions whereas the current hawks, while having pretty good players, are more a structured team

I thought that the discussion was about comparing TEAMS. It is a TEAM sport after all.

As Hodge said at the 2013 PCM night, it is about the team and he used San Antonio Spurs as the example.

The ability to have 22 players working seamlessly together has been a highlight for me over the last 2 years. In fact my favourite highlight from 2014 was that team goal they kicked in Round 3 against Freo.

 

[tommyk72]

Interesting comparison. A few thoughts:

Currently 3 flags to 2 (yes, 2, given the turnover since the 2008 flag).
3 brownlow medallists to 0.
Johnathon Brown to Luke Hodge
Back street brawlers to efficiency & game plan.

Very different comparisons. A lot of things in their favour. If we win this year I will say we are their equal, as the only thing that really matters is the first point.

 

[onthemoney]

This popped up on my facebook today and I couldn't help but think "TOO SOON!".

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl...ox-footy-decides/story-e6frf3e3-1227294584469

 

[Pessimistic]

Of all the head to heads, I thought voss would rate higher than any hawk. Im surprised how close it is.

Brisbane may have an advantage with two key defenders whereas the hawks have one - which may be resolved now. But the hawk bench with better knowledge of rotations would be a factor.

Plus theres the team aspect. Buddy wins a head to head in this contest but altogether the hawks are better without him.

I dont buy it when a player got picked because they "could beat anyone of their day" thats not the contest in point is it.

Some comments stating the lions would smash the hawks physically Well they didnt smash port when they took that tack did they ? And much the same team won a spoon without lethal as coach

 

[Thaihawk]

I hate these threads comparing Hawthorn to Hawthorn. Obviously, younger members here are privy to watching a great era in the HFC history. However they missed equally brilliant teams wear brow and gold from the past. Unfortunately for me, I started following the Hawks when every win was celebrated like a premiership, they were few and far between. It is possible, our current team could win a few more flags yet, but how many do they need to be the best? I don't know, but I am going to continue to enjoy the ride, and so should you. One thing for sure, we are the best at the moment. Let's hope it stays that way for few seasons yet.

 

[play2win]

there will be no debate if the team gets the silverware in 2015 and 2016