Trades / Delistings & Draftees 2014 (latest: Clarke & Mooney going home, Yagmoor delisted)

[TradeDraft]

Love the fact we have two potentially decent rucks and people are bickering over who is better.

Complement each other well in my opinion.

Well we have had not this Problem since Monkey and Manson.

Rather have this Problem then not

 

[Robroy22]

Well we have had not this Problem since Monkey and Manson.

Rather have this Problem then not

Monkey and Manson never had a problem Dave. They complimented each other perfectly but they also fitted Leigh Matthew's game plan....aggression.

 

[northmagpie]

blair ,,gone ,josh Thomas trade .harry o .trade .ball gone to slow ,brown ,trade goldsack wants good coin and is a goer but trade ,m

Its come to that time of year when i Just have to get my thoughts off my chest.

To be fair I saw that coming. Cant have that many blokes out injured / retired from your best 22 (Brown, Swan, Toovey, Ball, Maxwell, Fasolo, Sinclair etc), couple coming back from long lay offs (Reid and Elliott) and then a couple of kids who are just 'cooked' in Langdon and Frost and then expect to beat a side who is desperate for top 8. So the loss wasnt a surprise.

Injuries

The injuries as I noted in a different thread we have had over last 4 years have cruelled our chances and a lot have been soft tissue as Buckley has noted himself last week. Out of our best 22 at start of year that group has missed 100 games. Essendon is at circa 25-30. Its stark and makes 'winning' a hard caper.

Where is our list at

I think its in really good shape. Our best 22 on paper is competitive and the kids pushing up create real pressure. The coach has a hard call to make. Does he persist with some senior blokes not performing or does he put more time into the kids and find out where a few are at.

Players under pressure

What is very evident is that we have a group of senior players who are just not performing and unfortunately with the talent we have coming through some will have to go if only to make way for some of the kids. I just cant see how you can play a bloke like Young when you have kids performing well enough and who are good enought to take their spots. The ones I would look to trade amd delist would be;

Trades (only if can do something suitable...if not happily retain)

Jarrod Witts or Brodie Grundy - They are both super talents for the ruck but I dont think we can play both in the 22 as neither are particularly strong fwd and really struggle with applying enough fwd pressure. If you could swap one for Sam Reid then I would do it.

Lachie Keefe - If we got Frawley then I would think one of Keefe or Brown are expendable. For me i would be indifferent. Both would have currency as many clubs looking for key backs. Swans, Crows, Giants etc. I would seriously look at swapping Keefe for a kid at the Giants.

Harry Lumumba - for me he is just not doing enough. He is a senior player who struts around the club but doesnt strut around the field. Was better yesterday but when was the last time he controlled a game and influenced the outcome. We have kids coming up and he is in the way. I'd be open to him staying but if someone was keen I would let him go for the right price.

Jarryd Blair - Hard for me to say it as have loved him over the years but like Harry a senior player in age but not in deeds. He wouldnt be of much value to anyone and I would think he may get picked up in a PSD to a St Kilda or Carlton or somewhere but that would be it.

Tyson Goldsack - The hardest of all for me. One of our locals but you know his game is all about pressure and defensive acts. he is playing for a contract at present and yesterday he had 1 tackle. Again I would keep him but for me he goes back permanently and we get a small fwd in who can create pressure and tackle as well as offer something offensively.

Josh Thomas - He has gone backwards and must be a chance to be traded for mine. Obviously the Lions might be keen but would think Suns would pass given history and they dont need him. Saints, Melbourne, Carlton might be others looking for midfield depth.

Tony Armstrong - He aint worth anything but has performed well enough at times in the VFL and is probably one of the best kicks at the club. I would be inclined to give him a few games on a wing / HF and see how he goes.

Senior Delists

Quenten Lynch - I think he has been harshly dealt. Completely over trained last year and showed it in his 2nd half. Have no doubt he would have been better than White in retrospect but it is what it is and his contract and time are up.

Clinton Young - Look might be a bit tough but we have kids coming up and he is in the way. He may have another in whcih case he stays but if not I would say goodbye. He is a senior player who just doesnt influence it enough. I dont think he would have any trade value but I may be wrong.

Marty Clarke - If he couldnt get a game with this years injuries he never will

Jono Marsh - Long way to go and I would stick him on the rookie list.

Jackson Ramsay - I would probably keep him for another year but he hasnt been a standout and he would be a candidate. May go to rookie list actually. There are a couple of young blokes running around state leagues in that position i would have ahead of Jackson. I'd put him on the rookie list.

Nick Maxwell - Retired

Ben Hudson - Retired


Rookie List

Mooney and Yagmoor would be out for me. I'd upgrade Martin as well.


Senior List 2015

Note I havent assumed any of the suggested trades go through. Realistically one or maybe 2 of those blokes max would go. Dont think the draft is good enough to make massive changes.

1 Alex Fasolo
2 Sam Dwyer
3 Brent Macaffer
4 Brodie Grundy
5 Tyson Goldsack
6 Ben Kennedy
7 Harry Lumumba
8 Scott Pendlebury
9 Jarryd Blair
10 Luke Ball
11 Taylor Adams
12 Jarrod Witts
13 Nathan Brown
14 Dayne Beams
15 Jesse White
16 Jamie Elliott
17 Ben Reid
18 Steele Sidebottom
19 Lachie Keefe
20 Josh Thomas
21 Marley Williams
22 Tony Armstrong
23 Ben Sinclair
24 Tim Broomhead
25 Travis Cloke
26 Patrick karnezis
27 Alan Toovey
28 Matt Scharenberg
29 Dane Swan
30 Nathan Freeman
31 Paul Seedsman
32 Tom Langdon
33 Adam Oxley
34 Jack Frost
35 Kyle Martin
36 Darcy Moore
37 National Draft Selection
38 National Draft Selection
39 National Draft Selection

Rookies

1 Jono Marsh
2 Jackson Ramsay
3 Corey Gault
4 Mason Cox
5 Selection from the Rookie Draft


National Draft Selections

First I would look at the deficiencies

Young Fwds - We have been exposed this year with our reliance on White and no serious back up. PK is there but I think he is more 3rd tall. Gault is showing signs and I would persist but we need another one. For me I would look at Darcy Moore albeit he could go back as well. Either way I would grab another one and I would aim up for a Jamie Cripps in the 2nd round if possible. Other names I am looking at in that position are Reece McKenzie, Tyler Keitel and Matt Hammalman.

Small fwds - I think it is a real issue for us and I have my eye on a state league player who could be the answer but lets go with u18 kids. I would be doing a fair bit if I was Derek Hine trying to get into a position that would land me Jarrod Gartlett. By the time the draft comes that may mean a selection from 18-25. Kid has pace, ball skill and a defensive mindset. Jarrod Pickett could fall but I doubt it so lets discount him. Clem Smith could be an option. He is quick and aggressive. Probably needs to get fitter but a lot to like about him and he will be there at the 2nd round. Others would be Josh Hone. He is just very clever this kid and does it all. Would get him in the 3rd or 4th round I suspect.

Medium Fwds - For me I am all about James Rose at this stage. Wreaks class and decision making. May get him in third round if could trade a little higher into it. Lukas Webb, Ed Langdon, Brendan Maynard, Henry Carey would be others i would look. Langdon I suspect will go higher than people think as he will test off the charts.

Medium backs - I think we are goign to be desperate for someone to lead the back half. Frawley is importnat for that reason as well as the fact it releases Reid fwd. But lets assume we dont get him and we want Reid fwd. Scharenberg will be a leader but we want another and I would look left field and try for Jack Johnstone. Kid has leadership written all over him and mail is folk at Willy love him. he has more speed than you think, is an excellent kick and tough as a cats head. he is only 20/21 and is improving all the time. They prepare kids very well at Willy (eg Frost) and Johnstone and Owen are the next ones they have got right. If was going to draft I would look at Lim. I know people knock his kicking but its improved a lot and he is an elite runner. He gets repeat possessions and is hard. Has been an elite junior and is well liked by all around him.


Nirvana draft

Rd 1 - Darcy Moore
Rd 2 - Jarrod Gartlett
Rd 3 - Jamie Cripps
Rd 4 - Josh Hone
Rookie - Jack Johnstone

 

[northmagpie]

Sinclair .brown.blair,dwyer.ball.lynch.martin.Oxley,ramsay,goldsack.irish men gone.gault.harry o, thomas,either trade or delist place a couple of our rookies we need pace .fast crumbing forwards ,great ball users.and frawley and the gws lad and moore and new ass coaches and fitness guy ,we got to many one paced players that cant kick

 

[Trickster]

An important point I think. It looks worse when you move one or two more seasons back; nobody at all left from the 2007 draft for example.In four years, really only 2008 was a decent one.

It means that we have a big gap there in experience because its those 2007-2010 drafts that should be giving us the players with 50-120 games at their peak that we are lacking. Yes, we traded in the likes of Ball, Jolly, Krak, Taz and Clarke...but now we are paying the price for using higher picks for mature players. This was the price we paid for immediate success in 2010 and attempting to keep it going with mature top ups early which forced us even further down the pecking order.

I think it's very hard to be critical of our drafting / trading over this period. We had 2 top ten picks in both 05 and 06 and then have consistently made finals so we have virtually had no top 10 picks since (trading aside).
We traded 14, 30 and 46 I think for jolly and ball so there's no real guarantees that these players selected would have been stars (Melbourne had 4 picks before ball and all are question marks at best to date).

As we were in the premiership window we had to strike when we could and it's fair to say without Jolly we wouldn't have won the flag. In reality we won 2010, circumstances conspired against us in 2011 and made a prelim in 2012 but we've been on the slide since which is what the intent of the draft / cap is. I think Buckley had seen the signs much earlier and tried to regenerate on the run with 5 first rounders brought in at the expense of players who would be difficult to replace in short-term.

we're not competing for a flag this year or next, but you'd hope by 2016 we'd be challenging again once the young guys coming through get at least 30-50 games under their belt while guys like Reid, Pendles and cloke are still hopefully in their peak.

 

[Seedsfan]

Marsh easily worth a senior list spot, he's been emergency about 3 times this year and is developing nicely.

Witts and Grundy will be a great duo, Witts has a better forwardline game than 85% of the Ruckman in the league and it's still developing, hopefully once contested marking is developed more he will be a Ruckman similar to a David Hale/David Hille 1 goal a game average type.

That is how he plays in the VFL, he just needs to get a bit stronger and more experienced and he will bring that at AFL level

 

[PepperFace]

I think the Grundy has the Better All Around Game. Grundy can Ruck,get touches in the Midfield, can at times get his own Tap and Can Clunk Marks up Forward.

Witts is only good in the Ruck and as a Forward

I disagree so looks like we will have to agree to disagree. Witts for me is way better below his knees and gets more hitouts. And clearly has been the better option up forward this season for us.

Grundy is actually a very bad kick....he really needs to work on his technique. He needs to simplyfy it because at the moment he just tries to stick the boot through the ball. Sometimes it works....sometimes it doesnt.

 

[PepperFace]

Think Witts has been at least as good as Grundy around the ground on exposed form.

He has been better by a mile. His work around the ground saved him from being dropped earlier in the season.....and since then he has shown a knack to get himself into the right spot to kick the odd goal

 

[Snoop Dog]

I think it's very hard to be critical of our drafting / trading over this period. We had 2 top ten picks in both 05 and 06 and then have consistently made finals so we have virtually had no top 10 picks since (trading aside).
We traded 14, 30 and 46 I think for jolly and ball so there's no real guarantees that these players selected would have been stars (Melbourne had 4 picks before ball and all are question marks at best to date).

As we were in the premiership window we had to strike when we could and it's fair to say without Jolly we wouldn't have won the flag. In reality we won 2010, circumstances conspired against us in 2011 and made a prelim in 2012 but we've been on the slide since which is what the intent of the draft / cap is. I think Buckley had seen the signs much earlier and tried to regenerate on the run with 5 first rounders brought in at the expense of players who would be difficult to replace in short-term.

we're not competing for a flag this year or next, but you'd hope by 2016 we'd be challenging again once the young guys coming through get at least 30-50 games under their belt while guys like Reid, Pendles and cloke are still hopefully in their peak.

I agree with the point its hard to be critical of our trading. A lot of media commentators are getting on this bandwagon which is always the usual form for them.

Any intelligent journo (Rohan Connolly this morning) will look at list age, injuries recruiting and coaching strategy etc. He got it pretty right.

Our recruiting has been exceptional - wasnt long ago we were being lauded as one of best. As Connolly noted we have 10 kids with less than 50 games (West Bulls dont even have that many). My only issues with draftees is that they are all pretty small 177cm - 182cm when you ideally want them taller. In saying that they couldnt pass on Kennedy and Broomhead. Last year they corrected it with Schazza and Freeman was also the right choice for mine.

In 2011 they landed Elliott for effectively pick 25 or something from memory (might be wrong) which was really good. Only Merrett and Hill have been as good who were taken post that. Jackson Paine and Gault were #50 + selections and we ended up with PK for Jp so thats fine as PK was a high pcik in his year.

In 2010 was the year we got Krak from memory. Maybe in retrospect it was the wrong thing but gee he helped us in 2011. I was pretty keen on Guthrie and Horlin-Smith that year and they were available then so you could make argument we got that wrong. Post that we got Fasolo who I think can become a very good player but yeah he is 180cm as well. it was pick 40 or something so not many gun 188cm players there. Farmer was also in there (I was a fan in draft year but gee i was wrong) and seedsman came late so that was good.

Frankly I think drafting has been good.

In terms of trades the Krakouer could have hurt if we could have landed above names but thats its. Lynch, Young, White, Russell, Armstrong were all RFA or FA so didnt cost us much really. FWIW I dont think any of them have been great but realistically they cost us a rookie selection.

 

[Collingwoodity]

I think the Grundy has the Better All Around Game. Grundy can Ruck,get touches in the Midfield, can at times get his own Tap and Can Clunk Marks up Forward.

Witts is only good in the Ruck and as a Forward

Shocking post. Grundy has been average this year. Witts is miles ahead on exposed form both in the ruck AND around the Ground.

 

[TradeDraft]

Shocking post. Grundy has been average this year. Witts is miles ahead on exposed form both in the ruck AND around the Ground.

Well let’s agree to Disagree

 

[danielnajdek]

Shocking post. Grundy has been average this year. Witts is miles ahead on exposed form both in the ruck AND around the Ground.

Agree 100%.

 

[loki04]

give us broomhead

That's the rumour.

I'm hoping it is BS along with the Kennedy one if we lose them both it will set us back massively.

 

[Jdawgz]

well he played for our reserves that's the problem for you guys..will probably stay though.

That's the rumour.

I'm hoping it is BS along with the Kennedy one if we lose them both it will set us back massively.

 

[sloth6]

Clarke, Lynch both delisted
Maxy retired and I think Ball should as well
Hudson retired.

So there is five changes - then you have Oxley, Armstrong on one year deals most likely. Can't see them both beng on the list.

If Goldsack is after the world, he can be traded.

 

[TradeDraft]

About Grundy - Let’s Agree to Disagree.

Before the Hawks Game Witts was very Ordinary as well

 

[Bay Pie]

Lynch, Clarke - deisted
Maxwell, Hudson - retired

Frost & Martin - elevated rookies

Given we only had 39 on our senior list, that's only 3 spare list spots.

I hope Bally stays for another year. We've shed alot of experience n need to keep some.

If we get Frawley we can trade a tall.

 

[MickGoPies]

Put Blair in the ruck with all players around the centre, create a rolling mull

HAHAHA I'm just picturing the expression on the other rucks face.

Rolling maul!!! HEAVE!!!!

 

[MickGoPies]

I'm not optimistic at all about our side given the weakness in the bottom five or six.

This is my Collingwood side for 2015:

FB Langdon Frost ?
HB Scharenberg Reid ?
C Freeman Adams Sidebottom
HF Swan ? Broomhead
FF Elliot Cloke Grundy

Foll: Witts Pendels Beams

Int: Fasolo, Karnezis, ?, ?

I feel Collingwood need to get a better bottom five or six in order to take the right step forward.

Just not rating the following and would not get a game for any of the top 5 sides right now:
(Dwyer, MAcaffer, Goldsack, Kennedy, Lumumba, Clarke, Blair, Young, Brown, White, Keefe, Thomas, Williams, Toovey, Seedsman)

Will not be a contender for a flag playing these guys.

 

[jmac70]

I'm not optimistic at all about our side given the weakness in the bottom five or six.

This is my Collingwood side for 2015:

FB Langdon Frost ?
HB Scharenberg Reid ?
C Freeman Adams Sidebottom
HF Swan ? Broomhead
FF Elliot Cloke Grundy

Foll: Witts Pendels Beams

Int: Fasolo, Karnezis, ?, ?

I feel Collingwood need to get a better bottom five or six in order to take the right step forward.

Just not rating the following and would not get a game for any of the top 5 sides right now:
(Dwyer, MAcaffer, Goldsack, Kennedy, Lumumba, Clarke, Blair, Young, Brown, White, Keefe, Thomas, Williams, Toovey, Seedsman)

Will not be a contender for a flag playing these guys.

You rate Karnezis over 6 premiership players...wow.

 

[MickGoPies]

You rate Karnezis over 6 premiership players...wow.

By my watch I believe it is not 2010 anymore.

 

[ZEV]

You rate Karnezis over 6 premiership players...wow.

Seven actually...

 

[Piestration]

Delist: Clarke, gault, mooney, Armstrong, lynch, Dwyer, yagmoor
Trade: blair, keeffe

Dwyer is the perfect player that probably isn't costing us much and gives us immediate depth when required. I would keep him.

 

[Starcevich90]

well he played for our reserves that's the problem for you guys..will probably stay though.

Point is, these guys aren't free agents so we are going to make you pay a heavy price if they do want to come home...we won't get done over like Brisbane did with Polec.

Sorry.

 

[nahnah]

Don't understand why everyone is so keen to get rid of Josh Thomas, I think he will be an important part of our mid field.
People who don't rate Kennedy and Marley can gtfo, just log off and never log back on please