UFC 111: GSP vs Hardy/Mir vs Carwin

[Magnum]

He didn't crank it any further, it was one movement, you make it sound like Babalu/Heath... His reasoning WAS that his trainer, Murilo Bustamante has previously had to tap Matt Lindland TWICE in a match as Murilo stopped applying the armbar and the fight was restarted again when Lindland actually tapped the first time.

He didn't want to hurt his opponent, he just made sure he won and he applied it with full force. it's one of those things, heel hooks come on EXTREMELY quickly. Personally I put it down to an unfortunate injury rather than Rousimar being a deliberate cnut.

Yes he SHOULD have stopped applying the heel hook when his opponent tapped but he actually has no requirement to do so until the ref stops the fight.

As soon as the ref stopped him, he let go. BJ Penn held on to Pulver longer than Palhares did. I think you are being overly melodramatic applying afterthough to things that occur in a split second.

What would you have done? Banned him for life, pfft. There has been just as many bad ones with lesser outcry.

 

[Ross]

The NJAC chairman said he handed out the suspension partly because of what's happened in Palhares's previous fights. There's a fight from Brazil where Palhares has a BJ/Pulver moment and holds on to the choke while the ref is pulling him off. And yeah, while it would have been nice if Palhares let go as soon as Drwal started tapping he doesn't need to do so. The referee was completely out of position and might have ended up missing the tap if he let go immediately.

 

[Vinnie Vegas]

Darn it thats on the other side of town

I believe the Inkerman Hotel shows UFC events as well... Not sure if they do it every time, but they certainly have on occasion.

 

[Gravel]

Frightening performance by Carwin. His work against the cage outstanding and sensational to watch.
I agree that Lesnar will need to take him down very early, and possibility has the speed and strength to do so. What a fight this promises to be.

I can't see the Unified MMA rules being changed anytime soon, and certainly no banned moves being reinstated. If anything it would go the other way to further broaden appeal. FFS we can't even get approval for a UFC card in Melbourne (the sporting capital of Australia).

 

[RobbyRoy]

I dont think Anderson Silva v GSP at Middlewight would be that entertaining. Two of the most coservative, boring fighters in the UFC trying to eek out a majority decision because (a) neither fighter can finish, and (b) neither fighter is willing to take any risks.

Sarcasm? Or have you only seen Silva fight Thales Leites? I'm very confused.

What would you have done? Banned him for life, pfft. There has been just as many bad ones with lesser outcry.

The outcry has been ridiculous. Is Drwal badly injured? If he is, it's understandable that people are angry, but it really wasn't that bad. I laughed when Rogan counted out 4 seconds on the slow mo replay and he even had to sneak in the 4th count. Not many Brazillian fighters are going to stop before the ref jumps in, it just sucks it was with a heel hook.

 

[daicos21]

GSP has never fully recovered from his loss to Serra. Up until UFC 69, GSP was generally willing to stand and trade with his opponents - using his kyokoshin background.

Since the first Serra fight he has changed as a fighter (for the worse). Sure, he won the rematch against Serra in Montreal, but his fear of "the Serra situation repeating itself" means that he now takes zero risks in the Octogon.

It makes for a incredibly boring fight.

I dont think Anderson Silva v GSP at Middlewight would be that entertaining. Two of the most coservative, boring fighters in the UFC trying to eek out a majority decision because (a) neither fighter can finish, and (b) neither fighter is willing to take any risks.

I felt robbed of my money after paying for the GSP v Hardy ppv - at least Hardy came to fight. Watching GSP hug some dude for 20 mins in the Octogon is not that entertaining.

Your assesment about GSP's mental state after the Serra fight is spot on. He is terrified of defeat and has become a no risks fighter.Therefore becoming a boring fighter which is such a waste since he is capable of anything. Anderson Silva is only ever boring when his oponent doesn't come to fight.

 

[daicos21]

I'll say it again, I hope Cain and JDS don't fight each other until they've both had title shots or be actually for the title.

Smart thinking there Mag. Keep as many contenders in line as possible.

 

[daicos21]

On the Carwin vs Lesnar fight, if Shane can stop the take down he will win the fight, if he cannot he will get "cage squished" and pummeled into the next time zone.

Can't agree here. Lesnar has enough power to KO Carwin and Carwin is a good enough and strong enough wrestler to take down Lesnar.Anything could happen.

 

[Magnum]

I can't see the Unified MMA rules being changed anytime soon, and certainly no banned moves being reinstated. If anything it would go the other way to further broaden appeal. FFS we can't even get approval for a UFC card in Melbourne (the sporting capital of Australia).

Yes its a shame that this great sport of MMA must be "watered down" for the mainstream dollar. I guess thats to be expected.

The main problem I have is how seemingly arbitrary the rules are for making things 'illegal' without deep thought what the potential impacts are to the MMA.

For example banning kicks when an opponent is grounded makes it so you cant upkick if your opponent is inside your guard. No knees on the ground have totally destroyed the counter offensive sprawl and north/south positions.

Yet you can still do devestating head slams driving your opponents head into the mat with the force of a slam and the weight of two bodies, just like Pellegrino did to Camoes when Camoes had his back. If any technique is going to break a neck, its that.

This is LEGAL.

This is ILLEGAL.

If these rules are for "safety", what gives? It stinks of being slap dash abitrary and to me makes US MMA (and unfortunately the UFC) only "psuedo-MMA".

And I'm not saying ban the slam, I'm saying lets look at legalising some of these illegal techniques to balance out the game a bit. Hopefully when sanctioning is obtaining in all states in the US, Dana can push to have the rules and scoring methodology re-examined, for the betterment of the sport.

 

[Vendrell]

It will change soon. Dana White said after the weekend that he doesn't want to piss off the commissions by hassling them for rule changes when they're still after sanctioning in North American states. Their priorities at the moment are New York and Ontario and once they're achieved we'll probably see something done with the rules.

 

[yeah_nah]

Yes its a shame that this great sport of MMA must be "watered down" for the mainstream dollar. I guess thats to be expected.

The main problem I have is how seemingly arbitrary the rules are for making things 'illegal' without deep thought what the potential impacts are to the MMA.

For example banning kicks when an opponent is grounded makes it so you cant upkick if your opponent is inside your guard. No knees on the ground have totally destroyed the counter offensive sprawl and north/south positions.

Yet you can still do devestating head slams driving your opponents head into the mat with the force of a slam and the weight of two bodies, just like Pellegrino did to Camoes when Camoes had his back. If any technique is going to break a neck, its that.

This is LEGAL.

This is ILLEGAL.

If these rules are for "safety", what gives? It stinks of being slap dash abitrary and to me makes US MMA (and unfortunately the UFC) only "psuedo-MMA".

And I'm not saying ban the slam, I'm saying lets look at legalising some of these illegal techniques to balance out the game a bit. Hopefully when sanctioning is obtaining in all states in the US, Dana can push to have the rules and scoring methodology re-examined, for the betterment of the sport.

Agree with all that is said there, but **** thats a killer kick from the bottom!

 

[PLSC]

Your assesment about GSP's mental state after the Serra fight is spot on. He is terrified of defeat and has become a no risks fighter.Therefore becoming a boring fighter which is such a waste since he is capable of anything. Anderson Silva is only ever boring when his oponent doesn't come to fight.

STFU

GSP is not boring. He busted up Fitch badly and made BJ quit. Dominated Alves and also Hardy.

People bitch about his wrestling but like he said post-fight why would he stand with Hardy when it was his only chance of beating GSP?

Like Dana said, if you go into a fight with GSP you better have some takedown defence.

I'm sure if he fights a grappler you will see more striking.

 

[_GJ_]

STFU

GSP is not boring. He busted up Fitch badly and made BJ quit. Dominated Alves and also Hardy.

People bitch about his wrestling but like he said post-fight why would he stand with Hardy when it was his only chance of beating GSP?

Like Dana said, if you go into a fight with GSP you better have some takedown defence.

I'm sure if he fights a grappler you will see more striking.

You are delusional if you think that. I would say your opinion is out of sink with the vast majority of MMA fans (the ones that are prepared to pay for a PPV anyway).

GSP has not had a legitimate stoppage since his fight against Serra at UFC83. (BJ does not really count because it is tainted by the vaseleine scandal). The only reason why he got that stoppage against Serra at UFC 83 is because he actually had some "intent" to go into the Octogon and avenge his earlier loss.

The dissapointing thing is that GSP has great stand-up. But the closest we get to see of GSP's kyokoshin these days is when he struts into the Octogon wearing his old karate Gi.

Before the UFC 111, GSP was saying something along the lines of: "I see fighting as a mathematical equation...I want to put all of the chance on my side of the equation". But the fact of the matter is a fighters ability to pull a PPV audience is very important. And among that audience, alot of people are getting frustrated with GSP's "no risks" approach to fighting. It is boring and if GSP is not careful he will end up like Anderson Silva (a great fighter but with a PPV pulling power well below where it should be for a fighter of his status).

 

[RobbyRoy]

Sarcasm? Or have you only seen Silva fight Thales Leites? I'm very confused.

Can you clarify this GJ? I know Anderson had the bad period where he seemed to lose the killer instinct against Leites and Cote, but besides that when has he been conservative and boring?

 

[_GJ_]

Can you clarify this GJ? I know Anderson had the bad period where he seemed to lose the killer instinct against Leites and Cote, but besides that when has he been conservative and boring?

Yes I am basing it on Leites and Patrick Cote, and I admit that I do not follow the Middleweight Division as closely as others on this board. But the point I am making is that he did not start out like that (as a "decision" fighter), but his style seems to have become more and more conservative.

I would personally never pay for a PPV that he is headlining, and I know plenty of others that feel the same way.

His PPV draw is also considerably lower than what it should be given that he dominates the Middleweight Division.

 

[RobbyRoy]

Yeah I've always found that strange. After dismantling the fan favourite Franklin in emphatic fashion, twice, you'd think he could draw numbers. I'll watch him any time though, especially if he performs like he did last time out.

 

[PLSC]

You are delusional if you think that. I would say your opinion is out of sink with the vast majority of MMA fans (the ones that are prepared to pay for a PPV anyway).

GSP has not had a legitimate stoppage since his fight against Serra at UFC83. (BJ does not really count because it is tainted by the vaseleine scandal). The only reason why he got that stoppage against Serra at UFC 83 is because he actually had some "intent" to go into the Octogon and avenge his earlier loss.

The dissapointing thing is that GSP has great stand-up. But the closest we get to see of GSP's kyokoshin these days is when he struts into the Octogon wearing his old karate Gi.

Before the UFC 111, GSP was saying something along the lines of: "I see fighting as a mathematical equation...I want to put all of the chance on my side of the equation". But the fact of the matter is a fighters ability to pull a PPV audience is very important. And among that audience, alot of people are getting frustrated with GSP's "no risks" approach to fighting. It is boring and if GSP is not careful he will end up like Anderson Silva (a great fighter but with a PPV pulling power well below where it should be for a fighter of his status).

Have a look at the 111 numbers and I guarantee they are bigger than the last 3-4 PPV's.

GSP said himself he was dissapointed in the performance in the interview with Rogan and apologized to his fans but I will never say he is boring to watch because everything he does is textbook and the right way to do things so I guess I like that style rather than the brawlers like Hardy.

Incidently I watch UFC Unleashed last night and they had his fight with Hughes 1 where he looked amazing. Im sure if they put him up against a wrestler or bjj guy next we will see some of that great striking again.

 

[daicos21]

STFU

GSP is not boring. He busted up Fitch badly and made BJ quit. Dominated Alves and also Hardy.

People bitch about his wrestling but like he said post-fight why would he stand with Hardy when it was his only chance of beating GSP?

Like Dana said, if you go into a fight with GSP you better have some takedown defence.

I'm sure if he fights a grappler you will see more striking.

Obviously your an idiot,incapable of comprehending what fans are complaining about. Nobody is complaining about his wrestling or the fight hitting the ground. The fact is that his G+P is not brutal enough/his BJJ not good enough to finish fights. Understand? He has become a decision fighter and a boring one at that.
He did not manage to stop Alves,Hardy or Fitch. And BJ is a natural lightweight and a much more exciting fighter. How about GSP going up a division and facing the Spider?

 

[NineteenEighty4]

Can you clarify this GJ? I know Anderson had the bad period where he seemed to lose the killer instinct against Leites and Cote, but besides that when has he been conservative and boring?

Are you going to eat some humble pie RobbyRoy?

It seems that Dana White is starting to agree with GJ's assessment of Anderson Silva:

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/White-Calls-Silva-Maia-a-Disgrace-23782

His latest hight was a ****ing joke. I am just so glad I stuck to my guns and refused to buy the ppv this time. I would feel totally cheated if I paid money to watch that fight.

 

[the_interloper]

Are you going to eat some humble pie RobbyRoy?

It seems that Dana White is starting to agree with GJ's assessment of Anderson Silva:

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/White-Calls-Silva-Maia-a-Disgrace-23782

His latest hight was a ****ing joke. I am just so glad I stuck to my guns and refused to buy the ppv this time. I would feel totally cheated if I paid money to watch that fight.

Well i paid money and i feel shafted, what a bullshit farce. Hopefully Dana will make it up to me in the form of a free ppv!

 

[RobbyRoy]

Are you going to eat some humble pie RobbyRoy?

Definitely not. I don't think Anderson is conservative at all. He's just a dick. If he decides to go out there and fight seriously he's likely going to finish the fight.

 

[gytre]

Main card
Welterweight Championship bout: Georges St-Pierre vs Dan Hardy - As I expected, a complete domination by GSP. Hardy brave, but like so many other fighters, he just had no answer to GSP's takedowns or his ground game. However, as great as GSP is, he does show lack of finishing ability, so there's still plenty of room for improvement. Scary, hey?
Interim Heavyweight Championship bout: Frank Mir vs Shane Carwin - Wow. Those hands! Like many, I can't wait to see Carwin KTFO Lesnar.
Welterweight bout: Jon Fitch vs Ben Saunders - Saunders apparently requested this fight, but it was definitely a case of biting off more than you can chew! Saunders was monstered by a monster. Fitch isn't pretty, but damn if he's not effective. I still think he's the second best welterweight in the world, and right now that's a pretty good claim to fame.
Lightweight bout: Jim Miller vs Mark Bocek - Great fight between two guys with great heart and great ground skills, but I too thought Bocek was robbed. I'm not sure which part of "Octogan Control" the judge's didn't understand!
Lightweight bout: Kurt Pellegrino vs Fabricio Camoes - Awesome performance by an improving Pellegrino. Very nice sub.

Spike Prelims
Welterweight bout: Nate Diaz vs Rory Markham - Wow. There I was thinking Markham's size advantage would be a telling factor, but he was completely outclassed by Diaz.
Welterweight bout: Ricardo Almeida vs Matt Brown - Terrific win by Almeida against a quality opponent.

Prelims

Light Heavyweight bout: Rodney Wallace vs Jared Hamman - As suggested by Joe Rogan, Wallace is built more for being a running back than a MMA fighter. Decent fight, but I can't see either of these two worrying the likes of Machida.
Middleweight bout: Rousimar Palhares vs Tomasz Drwal - Ouch! That knee bar was brutal! Nice win by Palhares.