Who will make up our 'spine' for the next 5 years?

[Vicky Park]

There is some fascinating discussion going on in the 'Pick 5' thread, about drafting talls versus drafting mids this year, and how critical talls are to enhancing our 'spine'. To quote FIGJAM in that discussion, 'great midfields can win premierships, but great spines build dynasties'. I think this is a thread-worthy topic.

Who of our current players will form the basis of our 'spine' for the next 5 years?
Who should we draft this year to enhance it (from our available draft picks, or the rookie draft)?
Who should we/could we target from other teams at the end of season 2015 to make it even better (FAs, or out of contract)?
Or is the spine overrated, and let's concentrate on building up our somewhat depleted midfield?

 

[Apex36]

5 years from now:

Forwards:
Moore, Witts/Grundy, Wright (fingers crossed)

Defenders:
Keeffe, Frost, ?

Reid, Brown and Cloke either retired or winding down their careers.

Moore possibly a swingman who can play both ends, or as a defender if Cox makes it as a forward.

Gault won't make it.

 

[ThisIsJake]

Cloke will still be at his peak in 5 years, one of the most durable key forwards ever.

Pick 1-2 out of Keefe, Brown and Reid. All around the same age and all prone to long term injuries. Odds say at least one will retire early and at least one will overcome his injury problems.

Moore will be a 10 year player and of that I have no doubt. His determination to succeed is second to none.

Cox is somewhat of a mystery but signs are good. Gault is up against it.

Can't really look much further than that but I do believe that midfields win premierships, in 2010 our top goal scorer was Didak with 40.

 

[Chilli Con Incarnate]

Good thread idea.

Next three years or so: Brown/Frost, Keeffe/Reid, Grundy/Witts, Cloke, White/Moore/Reid.

As for the future:

I'll throw in Marsh as a tall defender as that is how we have been developing him. He could become something else however, potentially a forward or big bodied mid. Keeffe and Frost will also be in contention as I believe they both have great potential and we haven't seen the best of either of them yet.

Moore will be developed as a forward. However, we will need to find someone to share this space with him. I am not as sold on Gault as others. Ultimately Cloke won't be around forever and Jessie White is hardly going to get much better.

Grundy and Witts will form a ruck partnership with both spending half of their game up forward. That is something I would like to see this year and hopefully we can see some more contested marking from the pair of them.

 

[Seedsfan]

FB Frost/Keeffe
CHB Marsh
CHF Moore
FF Cloke/Reid we will look to draft another key tall in 1-2 years
Ruck Forward Witts I think Witts has shown more in the ruck but he also plays better up forward
Ruck Grundy

 

[Baird]

I don't think Marsh will be able to match up on key forwards - I see him as a Toovey replacement

 

[jackcass]

Who do we currently have... of the KPP prospects:

Cloke - 27 - Could be still playing and would be tough to oust from the FF spot.
White - 26 - Never considered White to be the type to demand a senior game, far too hot and cold in his performances. May have moved on.
Brown - 26 - Would very much depend on how his body holds up.
Reid - 25 - Similar to Brown but just a bit more durable. Not sure if he'll still demand a spot in the spine or if he'll become 3rd tall either forward or back.
Keeffe - 24 - Hopefully he can stake a claim on either FB or CHB over the next couple of years.
Cox - 23 - The great unknown. Extremely hopeful he can become a Paul Salmon type FF.
Frost - 22 - See Keeffe.
Gault - 22 - Seems more a 3rd tall type or 3rd in line for a ruck/forward role.
Witts - 22 - Likely to play ruck/forward so not necessarily in the spine.
Grundy - 20 - See Witts.
Marsh - 19 - May develop into a KPD but projects longer term as a 3rd tall or tall mid option.
Moore - 18 - May start as a 3rd tall option but I think longer term he'd be seen as either CHB or CHF.

So for mine, in 5 years time i can see the following:

FB: ______ Frost ______
CHB: Reid Keeffe ______
C: Marsh ______ ______
HF: ______ Moore ______
FF: Witts Cox ______
R: Grundy ______ _______

Need to recruit some KPP depth over the next 5 years to replace Cloke, White and possibly Brown.

The million dollar question is do we do it this year with pick 5, leave it to future drafts, or just steal 1 or 2 from other clubs? Are there other tall F/S selections on the horizon?

 

[ace andy]

Who do we currently have... of the KPP prospects:
Gault - 22 - Seems more a 3rd tall type or 3rd in line for a ruck/forward role.

Gault is very unlikely to make it. I wouldn't put him in any potential teams.

 

[Kappa]

Did Geelong have that great a spine for their 3 premierships?

It was Mooney Podsiadly Longergan Taylor mostly, Taylor the only A grader

 

[Seedsfan]

I don't think Marsh will be able to match up on key forwards - I see him as a Toovey replacement

Marsh is big enough, he is born in October so he is relatively young for an AFL player and he is about 194cm and 90kg that is only 1 cm shorter than both Brown and Reid. You also have to take in to account that he wont have finished growing yet

 

[jackcass]

Gault is very unlikely to make it. I wouldn't put him in any potential teams.

I'm a fan of Gault and I do think he'll make it, but he remains a speculative project player. I'm pretty sure I didn't actually include him in the spine I listed. He's got a bit of work to do before he'd squeeze any of the players I've listed out.

 

[Tbone McGraw]

I am not sure the spine is important as some make out. 3 reasons for this.

1) Geelong and West Coast are 2 examples of recently dominant teams that didn't really rely on their spine. You often see sides winning flags without great spines but rarely don't they have a great midfield.

2) Forwards are only as good as the service they get and defenders look better if the ball doesn't come their way as often. Who controls these things? Mids!!

3) Your spine consists of 5/6 players in any given game. Midfield can be around 10 deep. Hence you need a lot more mids at your club than spine players.

Give me an ablett junior over a franklin any day!! Or a pendles over a cloke.

I do agree good talls may be harder to find than good mids but there is the point. You need quality whichever you pick.

That is why draft picks should ALWAYS be best available no matter the position they play.

 

[jackcass]

Marsh is big enough, he is born in October so he is relatively young for an AFL player and he is about 194cm and 90kg that is only 1 cm shorter than both Brown and Reid. You also have to take in to account that he wont have finished growing yet

I still tend to agree with Baird, projects more as a 3rd tall - tall mid prospect longer term. Listed as 193 on the CFC site, but so was Maxwell, and so is Goldsack, neither of whom you'd want to rely upon as a KPD on a regular basis.

 

[Seedsfan]

I still tend to agree with Baird, projects more as a 3rd tall - tall mid prospect longer term. Listed as 193 on the CFC site, but so was Maxwell, and so is Goldsack, neither of whom you'd want to rely upon as a KPD on a regular basis.

And Roughead is 191 or 192, yet he seems to do alright as a KPP. He plays as a KPD in the VFL and does a very good role in a few years he will be our CHB he will be a gun. Very strong over head. Before he is matured he will put on at least 2-3 cm and then 10kg.

 

[Rorzza]

The days are gone where one player stays in the one position, there is generally a rotation of players through the one position within a game and season depending on match ups. More than every we should not pigeon hole players but expect them to play a number of roles through a game and season..

*2014 Draft
*Might not be available due to old age and looking at retirement. Your classier players like Pendlebury/Cloke should be able to play through to 31/32+ injury/body allowing.

Years 1-3
CFB Brown/Frost/Reid/Keefe
CHB Brown/Frost/Reid/Keefe
C Blair/Thomas/Adams/Greenwood/Fasolo/Neal-Bullen(30)/Freeman/Broomhead/Swan/McCaffer/Langdon/Crisp/Pendlebury/Karnezis
CHF Reid/White/Cloke/Witts
CFF Reid/White/Cloke/Witts

Years 4-5
CFB Brown/Frost/Reid/Keefe/Moore (9)
CHB Brown/Frost/Reid/Keefe/Moore (9)
C Blair/Kennedy/Thomas/Adams/Greenwood/Fasolo/Neal-Bullen (30)/Freeman/Broomhead/McCaffer/Langdon/Crisp/Scarenburg/Pendlebury/Karnezis/Marsh
CHF Reid/White/Cloke/Witts/Moore (9)/Wright (5)
CFF Reid/White/Cloke/Witts/Moore (9)/Wright (5)

 

[jackcass]

And Roughead is 191 or 192, yet he seems to do alright as a KPP. He plays as a KPD in the VFL and does a very good role in a few years he will be our CHB he will be a gun. Very strong over head. Before he is matured he will put on at least 2-3 cm and then 10kg.

Well that's your view and you're entitled to it. I'll stick with mine. Watts is 196 and not a KPPs jock strap, Everitt is 194 and another of the same ilk. See Marsh being more the Watts type 3rd tall player than a Roughead type.

Jury is still out on whether Marsh will even get a senior game yet alone be a gun, hopefully your right. I'll wait and see how he goes in 2015 before I get too carried away.

 

[Apex36]

Did Geelong have that great a spine for their 3 premierships?

It was Mooney Podsiadly Longergan Taylor mostly, Taylor the only A grader

I heard that Scarlett guy was an ok player too, even if he is a s**t bloke.

And that Ottens guy went ok too.

 

[Kappa]

I heard that Scarlett guy was an ok player too, even if he is a s**t bloke.

And that Ottens guy went ok too.

Bartel was a great player too

But neither played in the "spine" which is what this thread is about, Scarlett took the 3rd forward and provided rebound while Lonergan and Taylor were FB and CHB

Sure you can add in the Ruckmen

 

[Apex36]

Bartel was a great player too

But neither played in the "spine" which is what this thread is about, Scarlett took the 3rd forward and provided rebound while Lonergan and Taylor were FB and CHB

Sure you can add in the Ruckmen

Pretty sure Scarlett was a 6 time AA FB. He most certainly should be regarded as a spine player, as should Ottens, who was a ruck/forward.

 

[Kappa]

Pretty sure Scarlett was a 6 time AA FB. He most certainly should be regarded as a spine player, as should Ottens, who was a ruck/forward.

Your position in the AA team doesn't reflect where you played during the H&A series, there is countless evidence for this.

Do you think Lonergan or Scarlett took the full forward when Taylor was at CHB?

 

[Gone Critical]

And Roughead is 191 or 192, yet he seems to do alright as a KPP. He plays as a KPD in the VFL and does a very good role in a few years he will be our CHB he will be a gun. Very strong over head. Before he is matured he will put on at least 2-3 cm and then 10kg.

While it is true some men continue to achieve height up to 20 yo most have finished by 18 and some well before that. Marsh is a pretty mature looking kid with an adult like body. I would be doubtful his height will increase from here.

 

[Gone Critical]

Your position in the AA team doesn't reflect where you played during the H&A series, there is countless evidence for this.

Do you think Lonergan or Scarlett took the full forward when Taylor was at CHB?

For a start neither Lonergan or Taylor played in the 2007 flag. Its true to say Scarlett especially in his later career was often freed up to take the 3rd tall he also spent a lot of time as a KPB in the traditional sense

Its a bit of a stretch to paint him as not being a bone fide key defender

 

[Apex36]

Your position in the AA team doesn't reflect where you played during the H&A series, there is countless evidence for this.

Do you think Lonergan or Scarlett took the full forward when Taylor was at CHB?

Quote from the introduction to Scarlett's book:
"I was born to be a full-back. That may sound weird, and many over the years have told me that I’m crazy to enjoy playing in the toughest position on the field.

But I’ve always been this way."

Apparently he is under the impression that he played as a full back for 15 years.

I'm glad that a random on the Internet is here to tell me he's wrong though.

 

[loki04]

Did Geelong have that great a spine for their 3 premierships?

It was Mooney Podsiadly Longergan Taylor mostly, Taylor the only A grader

Think your forgetting the one who single handedly ripped our defence apart in 11 GF.

 

[mike123]

Next 5 years? We will win a premiership before that in 2016 or 17. My dream draft scenario is Pickett and Blakely.

Premiership Team:

B: Ben Reid ~ Jack Frost ~ Marley Williams
HB: Tom Langdon ~ Lachlan Keeffe ~ Mathew Scharenberg

C: Jarrod Pickett ~ Taylor Adams ~ Steele Sidebottom

HF: Tim Broomhead ~ Travis Cloke ~ Nathan Freeman
F: Jarrod Witts ~ Darcy Moore ~ Jamie Elliott

R: Brodie Grundy ~ Connor Blakely ~ Scott Pendlebury

I/C: Levi Greenwood ~ Paul Seedsman ~ Ben Kennedy
Sub: Travis Varcoe