To tank or not to tank

[Big Bad Buddy]

Foley is in our best 22 but injured, Morton & Thursfield have both been mentioned by Hardwick as being in our best 22 when fit and in form, neither are in form at the moment and are therefore playing for Coburg.

Watching Morton play for Coburg saturday, he was useless to be honest, didn't do anything good with it. Turned it over, kicked it out on the full, got most of his kicks smothered. He is an AFL player, he should be out classing these VFL players, but he just looked like a ordinary VFL player on the weekend.

 

[Big Bad Buddy]

We cant get ahead of ourselves, We will still get the odd smashing. We wont play like that every game. I think we will end the year on 4 or 5 wins.

I know we can't get ahead of ourselves, we have only won 2 out of 12 games, which is poor, but we are on the up, which is a good sign. For a young side, we are improving well. If we could get 2-3 + more wins this season, we would round of the season on a high.

 

[coke_zero]

I know we can't get ahead of ourselves, we have only won 2 out of 12 games, which is poor, but we are on the up, which is a good sign. For a young side, we are improving well. If we could get 2-3 + more wins this season, we would round of the season on a high.

I'm happy with 2 more wins.

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Isn't this the club culture that we have been trying to escape from?

Exactly. .. ....... There is a reason Carlton with it's 18 number 1 draft and priority can not beat teams like Brisbane,Essendon and Nth Melbourne in close games. Just like there is a reason we can beat West Coast every now and then. I've watched Melbourne try to beat Collingwood in close games and come up short both times. What do these teams have in common and isn't it as plain as day to see that great proud clubs always get the better of them and I am only using recent history since tankings inception as an example.

I'd hate to be a Carlton supporter watching all that talent losing the winable games to the roos and the bombers when they should be cementing top 4 right now and coming home with a wet sail.

I personally think Hardwicks to smart to take his eyes of development with the utmost pride and belief in the jumper to start the rot which is tanking.

I plan to be at the Gabba this Saturday watching us clock up our 3rd win in 4 weeks. F&$K the priority pick.

 

[CoggaRules]

Exactly. .. ....... There is a reason Carlton with it's 18 number 1 draft and priority can not beat teams like Brisbane,Essendon and Nth Melbourne in close games. Just like there is a reason we can beat West Coast every now and then. I've watched Melbourne try to beat Collingwood in close games and come up short both times. What do these teams have in common and isn't it as plain as day to see that great proud clubs always get the better of them and I am only using recent history since tankings inception as an example.

I'd hate to be a Carlton supporter watching all that talent losing the winable games to the roos and the bombers when they should be cementing top 4 right now and coming home with a wet sail.

I personally think Hardwicks to smart to take his eyes of development with the utmost pride and belief in the jumper to start the rot which is tanking.

I plan to be at the Gabba this Saturday watching us clock up our 3rd win in 4 weeks. F&$K the priority pick.

It is crystal clear to those that understand dude...what they have in common is they have a Rats and a Dean Bailey as coaches..that dont know how to nail the win that matters...i.e. extract that intangible

 

[Big Bad Buddy]

I'm happy with 2 more wins.

Yeah 2 wins would be good, but if we could get more it would be great! But, we are versing some quality teams in the coming weeks, so it will be good to see how we go against them.

 

[santa claws]

Isn't this the club culture that we have been trying to escape from?

what club culture would that be. oh yeah the culture where we refuse to properly bottom out or tank call it what you will and remain mediocre no matter what.
unlees anyone hasnt noticed failure to maximise the draft has crucified in the past.

this happens every yr we win a couple of totally meaningless games against fellow strugglers and our list is magically good.

lets see failure to stay below 5 wins last yr cost pick 18.

who did we beat now lets see.
nm who finished 13th we also had a draw with them.

melb the spooners who did all they could to guarantee picks 1 and 2. we won that one with a kick after the siren.

fremantle the 14 placed team who we beat by three points.

wce the 11th placed side. another narrow win.

ess by 5 the 8th placed mediocre finals side who managed a whopping 10 wins for the season.

yep the wins against ess and melb did wonders for us going into this yr. sheesh can you clowns hear yourselves. what possible good came from those two wins relatively late in a season that was shot to pieces. absolutely no good at all. it was a time to rest players send good players of to early ops and if need be pick sides that had no structure and little chance to win.
make no mistake those two crap wins cost possibly tapscott or bastinac and likely pick 6 this yr.

please tell me people what did we gain last yr confidence for the following yr sheesh the following yr is just that the following yr and totally irrelevant. yep it was important wasnt it those two wins especially when we had such a good start to the season being 1 and 10 at the half way mark. what flow on effect what benefit did we get.
meaningless wins are just that meaningless and they cost a club dearly.

heres one for you fools what possible good did wce get from winning 4 of their last 5 games last yr. sheesh those late wins cost how much. possibly if they were smart a shot at martin or morabito and two shots at some really good talent around pick 20. what could they be aiming at this yr.

hands up who wants to give back deledio or cotchin or martin that sort of quality only comes from bottom 4 finishes and usually less than 5 wins.

we go into the last 10 games with no chance of making finals with a good chance of losing 6 games. the real worry will be clubs putting the cue in the rack. so do we win two more games and put the cue in the rack for the other two games we are a chance to win or do we do what will help enormously and affects the bottom line more than anything that being recruiting.
imo the answer is very simple and logical we do what we have to that gives us the best chance at the best kids.

 

[CoggaRules]

what club culture would that be. oh yeah the culture where we refuse to properly bottom out or tank call it what you will and remain mediocre no matter what.
unlees anyone hasnt noticed failure to maximise the draft has crucified in the past.

this happens every yr we win a couple of totally meaningless games against fellow strugglers and our list is magically good.

lets see failure to stay below 5 wins last yr cost pick 18.

who did we beat now lets see.
nm who finished 13th we also had a draw with them.

melb the spooners who did all they could to guarantee picks 1 and 2. we won that one with a kick after the siren.

fremantle the 14 placed team who we beat by three points.

wce the 11th placed side. another narrow win.

ess by 5 the 8th placed mediocre finals side who managed a whopping 10 wins for the season.

yep the wins against ess and melb did wonders for us going into this yr. sheesh can you clowns hear yourselves. what possible good came from those two wins relatively late in a season that was shot to pieces. absolutely no good at all. it was a time to rest players send good players of to early ops and if need be pick sides that had no structure and little chance to win.
make no mistake those two crap wins cost possibly tapscott or bastinac and likely pick 6 this yr.

please tell me people what did we gain last yr confidence for the following yr sheesh the following yr is just that the following yr and totally irrelevant. yep it was important wasnt it those two wins especially when we had such a good start to the season being 1 and 10 at the half way mark. what flow on effect what benefit did we get.
meaningless wins are just that meaningless and they cost a club dearly.

heres one for you fools what possible good did wce get from winning 4 of their last 5 games last yr. sheesh those late wins cost how much. possibly if they were smart a shot at martin or morabito and two shots at some really good talent around pick 20. what could they be aiming at this yr.

hands up who wants to give back deledio or cotchin or martin that sort of quality only comes from bottom 4 finishes and usually less than 5 wins.

we go into the last 10 games with no chance of making finals with a good chance of losing 6 games. the real worry will be clubs putting the cue in the rack. so do we win two more games and put the cue in the rack for the other two games we are a chance to win or do we do what will help enormously and affects the bottom line more than anything that being recruiting.
imo the answer is very simple and logical we do what we have to that gives us the best chance at the best kids.

i cant argue with that dude...it aint gunna stick with the fools who are just that, fools, but it is what it is...reality.

 

[ata33cro]

Exactly. .. ....... There is a reason Carlton with it's 18 number 1 draft and priority can not beat teams like Brisbane,Essendon and Nth Melbourne in close games. Just like there is a reason we can beat West Coast every now and then. I've watched Melbourne try to beat Collingwood in close games and come up short both times. What do these teams have in common and isn't it as plain as day to see that great proud clubs always get the better of them and I am only using recent history since tankings inception as an example.

I'd hate to be a Carlton supporter watching all that talent losing the winable games to the roos and the bombers when they should be cementing top 4 right now and coming home with a wet sail.

I personally think Hardwicks to smart to take his eyes of development with the utmost pride and belief in the jumper to start the rot which is tanking.

I plan to be at the Gabba this Saturday watching us clock up our 3rd win in 4 weeks. F&$K the priority pick.

After reading Newman's interview in today's Herald Sun, it is very unlikely that the players and coach will go for tanking. They are aiming for more wins. So we'll just have to accept no tanking for us!

Besides as if Hardwick would agree with tanking. Although I wouldnt be surprised if some players will be rested in some games (re: just like the Geelong game we rested Martin and Cotch)

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Totally agree with your post. Santaclaws and well backed up Cogga but it is not in the rules of the game to do this. Rules are important to a lot of people and clubs and the way they go about things.

We are building from the ground up and based on 12 weeks of form not 2 we will be in a position to secure number 4 but our recruiting has improved alot and I'd be happy to do it the old fashioned way.

It's not about not understanding !

 

[acr2751]

what club culture would that be. oh yeah the culture where we refuse to properly bottom out or tank call it what you will and remain mediocre no matter what.
unlees anyone hasnt noticed failure to maximise the draft has crucified in the past.

this happens every yr we win a couple of totally meaningless games against fellow strugglers and our list is magically good.

lets see failure to stay below 5 wins last yr cost pick 18.

who did we beat now lets see.
nm who finished 13th we also had a draw with them.

melb the spooners who did all they could to guarantee picks 1 and 2. we won that one with a kick after the siren.

fremantle the 14 placed team who we beat by three points.

wce the 11th placed side. another narrow win.

ess by 5 the 8th placed mediocre finals side who managed a whopping 10 wins for the season.

yep the wins against ess and melb did wonders for us going into this yr. sheesh can you clowns hear yourselves. what possible good came from those two wins relatively late in a season that was shot to pieces. absolutely no good at all. it was a time to rest players send good players of to early ops and if need be pick sides that had no structure and little chance to win.
make no mistake those two crap wins cost possibly tapscott or bastinac and likely pick 6 this yr.

please tell me people what did we gain last yr confidence for the following yr sheesh the following yr is just that the following yr and totally irrelevant. yep it was important wasnt it those two wins especially when we had such a good start to the season being 1 and 10 at the half way mark. what flow on effect what benefit did we get.
meaningless wins are just that meaningless and they cost a club dearly.

heres one for you fools what possible good did wce get from winning 4 of their last 5 games last yr. sheesh those late wins cost how much. possibly if they were smart a shot at martin or morabito and two shots at some really good talent around pick 20. what could they be aiming at this yr.

hands up who wants to give back deledio or cotchin or martin that sort of quality only comes from bottom 4 finishes and usually less than 5 wins.

we go into the last 10 games with no chance of making finals with a good chance of losing 6 games. the real worry will be clubs putting the cue in the rack. so do we win two more games and put the cue in the rack for the other two games we are a chance to win or do we do what will help enormously and affects the bottom line more than anything that being recruiting.
imo the answer is very simple and logical we do what we have to that gives us the best chance at the best kids.

not getting rid of duds in the past who wernt going to take us any where or taking 3 draft picks when we needed a clean out or even trading for players that cost too much and gave little back is what kept us mediocre there are good players at any number in the draft we just have to be good at finding them.
there have been as many bombs at 4 as there has been at 20.
no ****ing way does this club tank and cheat its way to the top

 

[CoggaRules]

All i am going to add it this. I am over the debate on whether or not etc etc...the nos are deluded and offer pie in the sky hope and maybes to back up their argument and and the yes's have valid realistic facts to back them up.

At the end of the day, we played the dees last year in a game that the whole world, and for that matter civilisations from other galaxies knew they were tanking and we pipped them after the siren. Now i ask this, go and ask those dee supporters who had a problem with tanking etc, if they were there today and if they have been pulling the ***** red raw, thinking about what the future holds..case closed.

 

[acr2751]

All i am going to add it this. I am over the debate on whether or not etc etc...the nos are deluded and offer pie in the sky hope and maybes to back up their argument and and the yes's have valid realistic facts to back them up.

At the end of the day, we played the dees last year in a game that the whole world, and for that matter civilisations from other galaxies knew they were tanking and we pipped them after the siren. Now i ask this, go and ask those dee supporters who had a problem with tanking etc, if they were there today and if they have been pulling the ***** red raw, thinking about what the future holds..case closed.

you know coggs i couldent give a rats toss about melbourne fans or carlton fans either i only care about my club and how i feel about it.
i do how ever agree it will take longer not cheating.
(any way snow season opened this week no melbourne fans would have turned up)

 

[I Rock]

I still beleive in the old school method every time you wear the jumper you go out to win. You get the picks you get and develop them into great footballers.

 

[_RT_]

what club culture would that be. oh yeah the culture where we refuse to properly bottom out or tank call it what you will and remain mediocre no matter what.
unlees anyone hasnt noticed failure to maximise the draft has crucified in the past.

this happens every yr we win a couple of totally meaningless games against fellow strugglers and our list is magically good.

lets see failure to stay below 5 wins last yr cost pick 18.

who did we beat now lets see.
nm who finished 13th we also had a draw with them.

melb the spooners who did all they could to guarantee picks 1 and 2. we won that one with a kick after the siren.

fremantle the 14 placed team who we beat by three points.

wce the 11th placed side. another narrow win.

ess by 5 the 8th placed mediocre finals side who managed a whopping 10 wins for the season.

yep the wins against ess and melb did wonders for us going into this yr. sheesh can you clowns hear yourselves. what possible good came from those two wins relatively late in a season that was shot to pieces. absolutely no good at all. it was a time to rest players send good players of to early ops and if need be pick sides that had no structure and little chance to win.
make no mistake those two crap wins cost possibly tapscott or bastinac and likely pick 6 this yr.

please tell me people what did we gain last yr confidence for the following yr sheesh the following yr is just that the following yr and totally irrelevant. yep it was important wasnt it those two wins especially when we had such a good start to the season being 1 and 10 at the half way mark. what flow on effect what benefit did we get.
meaningless wins are just that meaningless and they cost a club dearly.

heres one for you fools what possible good did wce get from winning 4 of their last 5 games last yr. sheesh those late wins cost how much. possibly if they were smart a shot at martin or morabito and two shots at some really good talent around pick 20. what could they be aiming at this yr.

hands up who wants to give back deledio or cotchin or martin that sort of quality only comes from bottom 4 finishes and usually less than 5 wins.

we go into the last 10 games with no chance of making finals with a good chance of losing 6 games. the real worry will be clubs putting the cue in the rack. so do we win two more games and put the cue in the rack for the other two games we are a chance to win or do we do what will help enormously and affects the bottom line more than anything that being recruiting.
imo the answer is very simple and logical we do what we have to that gives us the best chance at the best kids.

Let me play devils advocate for a minute:

Geelongs Premiership players and where they were drafted:
Selwood(7), Mackie(7), Corey(8), Bartel(8), Varcoe(15), Taylor(17), Kelly(17), Wojinski(24), Johnson(24), Chapman(31), Blake(F/S 38), Ling(38), Ablett(F/S 40), Hawkins(F/S 41), Hunt(44), Scarlett(F/S 45), Enright(47), N.Ablett(F/S 48), Stokes(61), Byrnes(rookie 40) & Rooke(rookie 44).
No top 5 picks and no priority picks.

Current Saints players from the GF and where they were drafted:
Riewoldt(1) Goddard(1), Koschitzke(2), R.Clarke(8), Hayes(11), Dal Santo(13), McQualter(17), Baker(27), Gilbert(33), Montagna(37), Fisher(55), Gwilt(63), Jones(rookie 9), Milne(rookie 23) & Dawson(rookie 33).
One PP pick and 3 top 5 picks overall

Now look at our side from the weekend:
Deledio(1) Cotchin(2) Martin(3) Tambling(4), Vickery(8), Riewoldt(13), Griffiths(19), Edwards(26), Astbury(35), McGuane(36) Jackson(53), Newman(55), Connors(58), Nason(71), Collins(73), Tuck(73), White(PSD 5) Moore(rookie 3), Graham(rookie 5), King(rookie 24)
One PP and 4 top 5 picks overall.

Explain to me how the 2 teams that played in last years GF, one of them has played in 3 straight and looks like making another, have been so successful over the last 5-6 years with so little access to top picks and yet we, a side with practically a handful of top 5 picks, apparently need to add another 3 top 5 picks over the next 2 drafts to have any chance of being successful?

 

[cotcha now]

Let me play devils advocate for a minute:

Geelongs Premiership players and where they were drafted:
Selwood(7), Mackie(7), Corey(8), Bartel(8), Varcoe(15), Taylor(17), Kelly(17), Wojinski(24), Johnson(24), Chapman(31), Blake(F/S 38), Ling(38), Ablett(F/S 40), Hawkins(F/S 41), Hunt(44), Scarlett(F/S 45), Enright(47), N.Ablett(F/S 48), Stokes(61), Byrnes(rookie 40) & Rooke(rookie 44).
No top 5 picks and no priority picks.

Current Saints players from the GF and where they were drafted:
Riewoldt(1) Goddard(1), Koschitzke(2), R.Clarke(8), Hayes(11), Dal Santo(13), McQualter(17), Baker(27), Gilbert(33), Montagna(37), Fisher(55), Gwilt(63), Jones(rookie 9), Milne(rookie 23) & Dawson(rookie 33).
One PP pick and 3 top 5 picks overall

Now look at our side from the weekend:
Deledio(1) Cotchin(2) Martin(3) Tambling(4), Vickery(8), Riewoldt(13), Griffiths(19), Edwards(26), Astbury(35), McGuane(36) Jackson(53), Newman(55), Connors(58), Nason(71), Collins(73), Tuck(73), White(PSD 5) Moore(rookie 3), Graham(rookie 5), King(rookie 24)
One PP and 4 top 5 picks overall.

Explain to me how the 2 teams that played in last years GF, one of them has played in 3 straight and looks like making another, have been so successful over the last 5-6 years with so little access to top picks and yet we, a side with practically a handful of top 5 picks, apparently need to add another 3 top 5 picks over the next 2 drafts to have any chance of being successful?

the best midfielder and defender in the league were given straight to geelong by the father/son rule.. hawkins was touted as a top 10 pick but again father/son rule..
please do hawthorns.. thats the modern priemership building way.

 

[bigstyletiger]

The truth is that pick 4 and 27,28 would be gold BUT a group of players (like ours) will always go out to win. The way the team is developing, as a team, is great and will not be jeopardised.

Dimma however has never made this year about wins and the players all know this. It's about giving the young guys experience, teaching them the processeses and seeing who we can and cannot move forward with. This has to continue and if we get pick 4, 27, 28 we won't regret it. On the other hand if we can have some genuine wins then that's good for the current group.

While I was loving yesterday and while the song in the Port win was one of the best songs we have ever sung we have only beaten poor sides so far. The run home will not yield cheap wins and opposition sides will put a great deal of effort into stopping Jack. I'm hoping that a few others can stand up and kick some goals and that Lids, Newman and Connors can keep up their good form. That Gus and Vickery can keep improving and that the young kids can keep building in confidence. I'm also really hoping that Richard Tambling gets a run on in form as he did last year. He could be a really important part of our team in the future if we can get him running and carrying the footy through the midfield as he did last year. This is the stuff that really matters, not the win loss ratio.

 

[santa claws]

Let me play devils advocate for a minute:

Geelongs Premiership players and where they were drafted:
Selwood(7), Mackie(7), Corey(8), Bartel(8), Varcoe(15), Taylor(17), Kelly(17), Wojinski(24), Johnson(24), Chapman(31), Blake(F/S 38), Ling(38), Ablett(F/S 40), Hawkins(F/S 41), Hunt(44), Scarlett(F/S 45), Enright(47), N.Ablett(F/S 48), Stokes(61), Byrnes(rookie 40) & Rooke(rookie 44).
No top 5 picks and no priority picks.

Current Saints players from the GF and where they were drafted:
Riewoldt(1) Goddard(1), Koschitzke(2), R.Clarke(8), Hayes(11), Dal Santo(13), McQualter(17), Baker(27), Gilbert(33), Montagna(37), Fisher(55), Gwilt(63), Jones(rookie 9), Milne(rookie 23) & Dawson(rookie 33).
One PP pick and 3 top 5 picks overall

Now look at our side from the weekend:
Deledio(1) Cotchin(2) Martin(3) Tambling(4), Vickery(8), Riewoldt(13), Griffiths(19), Edwards(26), Astbury(35), McGuane(36) Jackson(53), Newman(55), Connors(58), Nason(71), Collins(73), Tuck(73), White(PSD 5) Moore(rookie 3), Graham(rookie 5), King(rookie 24)
One PP and 4 top 5 picks overall.

Explain to me how the 2 teams that played in last years GF, one of them has played in 3 straight and looks like making another, have been so successful over the last 5-6 years with so little access to top picks and yet we, a side with practically a handful of top 5 picks, apparently need to add another 3 top 5 picks over the next 2 drafts to have any chance of being successful?

and around and around we go weve been over this. like cogga im over this whole debate.
all im going to add, is it or is it not better or easier to attempt to build with pick 1-3 plus an extra pick around pick 20 or pick 9 and one pick closer to 30.

is it it or is it not just plain old common sense to go with, if in your power to do so, say picks 1 and 2 than just plain old pick 1. your riewoldts cooneys hodges judds deledios etc dont grow on trees they dont last past pick 4 or 5 any more thats just the way it is.

sheesh pick 18 or 19 two picks we have either traded away or won two meaningless games and missed out on has cost us players of the calibre of callan ward or pears tapscott or bastinac. the real trouble is supporters have no real sense of just how valuable early draft picks are. its been this way for 24yrs.unfortunately the clubs attitude has been the same.

you anti bottoming out crowd have had it your way for those yrs how about we just give the pro bottoming out crowd just 3 yrs. whats there to lose.

 

[_RT_]

the best midfielder and defender in the league were given straight to geelong by the father/son rule.. hawkins was touted as a top 10 pick but again father/son rule..
please do hawthorns.. thats the modern priemership building way.

I don't believe Ablett was talked about as being the best midfielder in the game nor Scarlett being the best defender when they were drafted, Hawkins while touted as a top 5 pick hasn't really played like one at all. That covers 3 of the listed players what about the rest and who were the players that the Saints were handed?

As for the Hawks list:
Hodge(1PP), Roughead(2), Ellis(3PP) Croad(3 in 97), Franklin(5), Lewis(7), Rioli(12), Crawford(13 in 91), Birchall(14), Ladson(16), Renouf(24), Brown(32), Mitchell(36), Bateman(48), Williams(43), Sewell(rookie 7), Osborne(rookie 11), Campbell(rookie 27), Gilham(rookie 34)

2 PP and 5 top 5 picks overall. It should be pointed out that the Hawks were lucky to get Croad back after trading him away to Freo. Still 9 of those named above were drafted outside the first round and although there are 10 first rounders named it should be pointed out that Croad and Crawford both played for over a decade before getting to taste ultimate success. It should also be pointed out that to get some of those first round picks the Hawks traded away established stars to get a hold of them.

Finally out of Geelong Saints & Hawks how is it 2 of them have been able to achieve sustained success without the need for excessive top end picks? Saints have made 3 prelim finals and a GF since 04 while the Cats have played in the last 3 GF and are heading towards a 4th. Meanwhile the Hawks since putting that list together have won a GF then finished 9th and until recently looked in serious danger of missing the finals again this year.

 

[Toothpick Vic]

I'm actually quite torn with what I'd like to see us finish up with..

I've been over the moon with the past few weeks from the young tigers and I think the signs are really positive..

However we are in the unique position to be one of the few sides to benefit greatly from a compromised draft.. I now have a lot of faith in the revamped recruiting dept.. Finishing last or 2nd last I don't think will matter too much as we'll get a good player regardless one would think but it's the PP in the 2nd round that I eye off as being a very very handy pick should we qualify for it..

I could def handle another spoon knowing that we've got the right people in place to take full advantage of our higher picks, something we've only really had for one draft and that is not enough to build a side that can launch an assault on a flag..

But like I said, am thrilled to see the tiges playing so well and singing the song with such passion.

So maybe people should just relax either way, if we keep winning then obviously the side is coming together and confidence is growing and if we happen to lose more games than we'd like in the run home, at least the kids will be better for the experience and we are in a position to do some major damage at the draft/trade table....

 

[The Rusty Trombone]

Our problem has always been topping up or not developing our recruits, even our high draft picks like JON (8) Patto (16) and Meyer (12) . Throw in the multiple picks we wasted on recycling under Frawley and Wallace and you have at least another 6 guys on our list hovering around 150 games.

We don't need to tank we just need to give guys that aren't going to make the golden hand shake early and all new recruits and draftee's the time, effort and enviroment to succeed.

If we Tank , I start barracking for Geelong, Essendon or Sydney.

 

[_RT_]

and around and around we go weve been over this. like cogga im over this whole debate.
all im going to add, is it or is it not better or easier to attempt to build with pick 1-3 plus an extra pick around pick 20 or pick 9 and one pick closer to 30.

is it it or is it not just plain old common sense to go with, if in your power to do so, say picks 1 and 2 than just plain old pick 1. your riewoldts cooneys hodges judds deledios etc dont grow on trees they dont last past pick 4 or 5 any more thats just the way it is.

sheesh pick 18 or 19 two picks we have either traded away or won two meaningless games and missed out on has cost us players of the calibre of callan ward or pears tapscott or bastinac. the real trouble is supporters have no real sense of just how valuable early draft picks are. its been this way for 24yrs.unfortunately the clubs attitude has been the same.

you anti bottoming out crowd have had it your way for those yrs how about we just give the pro bottoming out crowd just 3 yrs. whats there to lose.

Thats not what I asked, so I'll ask again why have the Saints/Cats been able to have sustained success over the last 5-6 years without the high picks that the pro bottoming out crowd seem to think we need to achieve sustained success? Between them they have had 1 PP & 3 top 5 picks overall and yet they have been the teams to beat for the last 18 months or 3 years in Geelongs case.

 

[SleepingGiant]

Lets cut the crap right now. The more high draft selections we have the better we will be. So we need to tank no matter what. It is absolutely moronic to think that winning meaningless games will help us more than getting extra elite high quality players.

Confidence from a "winning culture" is a state of mind which can be easily achieved through a few wins in a row. Gaining such quality players cannot be so easily achieved as the above confidence. If you possibly think that we would be better without players such as Deledio, Martin, and Cotchin, who are the players we are building our team around you are ****ing clueless. Imagine if we had Bastinac as well to our midfield and then the potential to get say picks 4 and 6 this year.

That said I love winning but I cant help but think of last year and 2008 and how insignificant those wins were to how we are today.

 

[Barnzy]

Lets cut the crap right now. The more high draft selections we have the better we will be. So we need to tank no matter what. It is absolutely moronic to think that winning meaningless games will help us more than getting extra elite high quality players.

Confidence from a "winning culture" is a state of mind which can be easily achieved through a few wins in a row. Gaining such quality players cannot be so easily achieved as the above confidence. If you possibly think that we would be better without players such as Deledio, Martin, and Cotchin, who are the players we are building our team around you are ****ing clueless. Imagine if we had Bastinac as well to our midfield and then the potential to get say picks 4 and 6 this year.

That said I love winning but I cant help but think of last year and 2008 and how insignificant those wins were to how we are today.

Sums it up well. It's sad people are still clueless and are still banging on about "winning culture" bla bla. Haven't learnt from the past at all obviously (more specifically - 2008/2009 when we could've had a 1st round P.P or 2 similar to Melbourne and better picks yet we went for meaningless wins against mediocre opposition or team that had put the cue in the rack for the season).

 

[_RT_]

Lets cut the crap right now. The more high draft selections we have the better we will be. So we need to tank no matter what. It is absolutely moronic to think that winning meaningless games will help us more than getting extra elite high quality players.

Confidence from a "winning culture" is a state of mind which can be easily achieved through a few wins in a row. Gaining such quality players cannot be so easily achieved as the above confidence. If you possibly think that we would be better without players such as Deledio, Martin, and Cotchin, who are the players we are building our team around you are ****ing clueless. Imagine if we had Bastinac as well to our midfield and then the potential to get say picks 4 and 6 this year.

That said I love winning but I cant help but think of last year and 2008 and how insignificant those wins were to how we are today.

Sums it up well. It's sad people are still clueless and are still banging on about "winning culture" bla bla. Haven't learnt from the past at all obviously (more specifically - 2008/2009 when we could've had a 1st round P.P or 2 similar to Melbourne and better picks yet we went for meaningless wins against mediocre opposition or team that had put the cue in the rack for the season).

So why have Geelong & St Kilda been so good for the last 5-6 years and yet between them both they have less top 5 picks than we currently do? Can anyone answer that?!?