Moved Thread #7: Jack Ziebell [Part I] © -

[Twinkletoes]

I heard Roos tonight, and a week ago when he was more dismissive of us, saying "Yeah, but where did you honestly think that list was at this point in time..........worthy of ninth, where they finished last year, or in the bottom few?" after Mike Sheahan said how disappointed we'd have been to lose to West Coast.

That told me all I needed to know..............he doesn't rate our playing list.

I didn't particularly pay heed to what he had to say tonight because, quite frankly, he was speaking as if Jack and Cunners were 50 game players who've been injury free................in other words, very harshly!

 

[WesternRoo]

Hmmmmmm, I wonder if Roosy believes Dane Swan an elite runner as a kid?

I don't know was he? He has always been a strong runner since arriving at Collingwood.

Paul Roos may have a point here.

If you look at our 5 best midfielders, Swallow, Harvey, Anthony Greenwood and Bastinac they are all elite runners. Atley is also. Anthony had to work at it a bit, but is naturally very fit.

You could throw Wells in there as a burst player, but I am still of the firm beleif his best footy is played and will come as a half back like McLeod.

If you look at our under performing players:

Ziebell - Very slow and poor endurance
Cunnington - A military medium pace at best and average endurance
Urquhart - Quick but the worst endurance on the list
Wright- very clever, but his lack of a burst of speed and average endurance is allowing defenders to nullify him.

Its not helping the fact that that Ziebell and Cunnington are centre square players and we seem to keep persisting with playing them on a wing or flank.

We draftet ball winning players who currently are not winning the ball enough for whatever reason.

Roos was at a club that picked Rohan, Lewis Jetta and Dan Hannebery within 2 years. All quick, good ball users and gifted runners who can build on a strong base of athletisism.

Maybe we are not as clever as we thought with some of our picks, but im willing to give them more time.

 

[Groggyk]

19 and 20. Between them, a stress fracture, a 10 week knee injury and two broken legs and one actual pre-season. So, as Paul seems to be aware of their non-careers in middle distance athletics as young fellas, I'm not certain they've had heaps of chances to set about a huge change in this area yet.

Yeah they haven't and for what it's worth the may never become elite runners either, btw.

Does that mean they won't find a successful career at AFL level? No, not in the slightest.

They both look like natural footballers to me and where they are best utilised is yet to be seen.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Where does it say in the non-existant AFL Drafting manual that every player has to be able to do 100m in 10 secs and be able to run 30km each and every game though?

Yeah theyre not the best runners at the club, far from it. But running isnt going to be the strength of every player, you could probably pick a handful at every club that are in a similar boat.

Not to mention both have had leg injuries, and extremely interrupted pre seasons and its easy to see why theyre behind in their aerobic development.

 

[Tas]

Roos was at a club that picked Rohan, Lewis Jetta and Dan Hannebery within 2 years. All quick, good ball users and gifted runners who can build on a strong base of athletisism.

Maybe we are not as clever as we thought with some of our picks, but im willing to give them more time.

If we took Rohan they would have taken Cunnington.

Depress fractures, broken legs, etc can really set you back, in some cases years. It is unfortunate these things have impacted these kids but Ziebell has worked hard on building up his tank, it wont come overnight.

One thing both these kids have is desire and the right attitude, they will put the hard yards in. If it was the Pagan era, it is unlikely either of these kids would have played a senior game until they hit 22 or 23 back where we had an established team.

We don't have that now, they have to learn on the go.

 

[DarkPhoenix]

Agree Tas, I think the best thing is that Ziebell knows his tank is pathetic and is actively working on it. Saying he hasnt improved his fitness since being drafted is a bit harsh, you can see a marked increase in his fitness. Yeah he still comes off blowing hard but he gets back on the ground quicker and stays out there longer.

 

[Juryduty]

I think Jack Zeibell could do with a hard dose of being dropped to the VFL for the first time in his career. Only injuries has kept him out of the squad and he needs to go back to VFL to find form again. Cruize Garlett is ahead of this kid.

And on Paul Roos, he is a great thinker of the game and his words should not be under estimated. Fellow North Supporters we have to take off our blue and white glasses and realise we have quite a way to go.

 

[The OBSTacle]

Cue at 4:10

[youtube]-3gMDDsr5Yc[/youtube]

Can anyone else join the dots that this highlight reel is full of situations where Jack is not in heavy traffic?

He mightn't be the quickest bloke around, but I would still back him in to win the majority of his one on one contests against his age bracket, when his opponent hasn't had a huge head start.

All we need to do is get Jack out of heavy traffic.

Get him out of the midfield.

 

[Tas]

Cue at 4:10

[youtube]-3gMDDsr5Yc[/youtube]

Can anyone else join the dots that this highlight reel is full of situations where Jack is not in heavy traffic?

He mightn't be the quickest bloke around, but I would still back him in to win the majority of his one on one contests against his age bracket, when his opponent hasn't had a huge head start.

All we need to do is get Jack out of heavy traffic.

Get him out of the midfield.

He also had a lot of confidence in 2009, as you would expect with a kid coming off two broken legs you would lose some faith in your body. He needs to get through this year without a major setback.

I know Bon isn't a fan of it but he should realistically play a half forward flank or half back flank this year, spend a bit of time rotating in the middle but not a lot. give him some space to work with. it is probably more of an option when Greenwood and Bastinac are back.

FF: Harvey Petrie Thomas
HF: Ziebell Hansen Wright
C: Wells Swallow Anthony
HB: Firrito Grima Thompson
FB: Rawlings Tarrant McMahon
F: Goldstein Greenwood Bastinac
I: Cunnington Adams Garlett

 

[The OBSTacle]

I know Bon isn't a fan of it but he should realistically play a half forward flank or half back flank. give him some space to work with.

BINGO!

I was actually beginning to wonder if the penny would ever drop with anyone else.

Put him in a one on one situation in some space and the kid is in his element.

No more putting square pegs in to round holes.

 

[Groggyk]

Think I may have mentioned it a while ago.

 

[Tas]

I don't know why we are trying to make him into a pure inside mid when we have Swallow, Cunningon, Bastinac and Greenwood. There is the opportunity to make him more like a Chapman which down the track would be insanely valuable for the team.

If we can also get our athletic talls into the side in Kennedy and Black next year then I think it will change the outlook of our side, atm our taller forwards have mostly been plodders.

 

[Radical Roo]

Ziebell is really good for being shock troopers on the forward line

 

[errrp!]

Cue at 4:10

[youtube]-3gMDDsr5Yc[/youtube]
Can anyone else join the dots that this highlight reel is full of situations where Jack is not in heavy traffic?

He mightn't be the quickest bloke around, but I would still back him in to win the majority of his one on one contests against his age bracket, when his opponent hasn't had a huge head start.

All we need to do is get Jack out of heavy traffic.

Get him out of the midfield.

actually at least half of those highlights show him excelling in heavy traffic when fit and confident prior to the broken legs. hopefully the coaching staff will not adopt a short-sighted view and will continue to play him in the midfield where he will likely develop into a Voss like matchwinner.

 

[RandySavageNMFC]

****! JZ looks incredible in those videos, surely after stringing a year of games together he will get back to that level. As frustrating as it is, we are just going to have to be patient with him.

 

[The OBSTacle]

actually at least half of those highlights show him excelling in heavy traffic when fit and confident prior to the broken legs. hopefully the coaching staff will not adopt a short-sighted view and will continue to play him in the midfield where he will likely develop into a Voss like matchwinner.

No.

Watch again.

He is at his best in the open when he can build up speed.

90% of those highlights are at half back or in the forward line.

 

[The OBSTacle]

I don't know why we are trying to make him into a pure inside mid when we have Swallow, Cunningon, Bastinac and Greenwood. There is the opportunity to make him more like a Chapman which down the track would be insanely valuable for the team.

Exactly!

What farmer is stupid enough to plow their fields with a Rolls Royce?

We have plenty of players to already fill the role that the coach is expecting of Jack in the midfield. HOWEVER, we don't have plenty of players that can do what Jack can do at either end of the ground.

 

[Long Live the King]

On Roos, he built his success on the back of guys like Kirk / Bolton / McVeigh......hardly running machines.

Whether Jack is better suited to a mid field role or somewhere else, Id just like to see the kid get his fitness up and then decide on what position suits him best.

Not sure if we need another half forward.

Personally I like the idea of having him in the middle, someone who can win the ball in close is a rare commodity, players who look good out in the open are a dime a dozen in comparison.

 

[Shinbones]

On Roos, he built his success on the back of guys like Kirk / Bolton / McVeigh......hardly running machines.

Whether Jack is better suited to a mid field role or somewhere else, Id just like to see the kid get his fitness up and then decide on what position suits him best.

Not sure if we need another half forward.

Personally I like the idea of having him in the middle, someone who can win the ball in close is a rare commodity, players who look good out in the open are a dime a dozen in comparison.

I thought we got him to be an inside midfielder to get it out to blokes on the run .Put him in the guts and change him at half forward or deep .

 

[Horace]

I don't know was he? He has always been a strong runner since arriving at Collingwood.

Paul Roos may have a point here.

If you look at our 5 best midfielders, Swallow, Harvey, Anthony Greenwood and Bastinac they are all elite runners. Atley is also. Anthony had to work at it a bit, but is naturally very fit.

You could throw Wells in there as a burst player, but I am still of the firm beleif his best footy is played and will come as a half back like McLeod.

If you look at our under performing players:

Ziebell - Very slow and poor endurance
Cunnington - A military medium pace at best and average endurance
Urquhart - Quick but the worst endurance on the list
Wright- very clever, but his lack of a burst of speed and average endurance is allowing defenders to nullify him.

Its not helping the fact that that Ziebell and Cunnington are centre square players and we seem to keep persisting with playing them on a wing or flank.

We draftet ball winning players who currently are not winning the ball enough for whatever reason.

Roos was at a club that picked Rohan, Lewis Jetta and Dan Hannebery within 2 years. All quick, good ball users and gifted runners who can build on a strong base of athletisism.

Maybe we are not as clever as we thought with some of our picks, but im willing to give them more time.

Yet in the case of Bastinac, one of the smartest recruiting managers going around, told me that Bastinac was overlooked in the early part of the draft because there were doubts on his pace.

The trouble with Paul Roos is that he looks at our list and sees hardly any recycled players. In his view if you don't have at least 73 recycled players on your list, you will struggle.

 

[Joey7]

JZ is going to be fine he needs some continuaity in his football, right now while coming off his broken legs i would play him across half back so he gets confidence in his body and run and strength in his legs. Ultimately, he is a midfielder and dont worry he will be a special one.

How quick is Dane Swan, Scott Pendebury, Lenny Hayes - its not pace that makes the great players - its balance, poise and an ability to keep their feet. JZ has all these attributes - Im not concerned - he is starting from a lot further back then any other top 10 pick in his draft.

 

[koshari]

but im willing to give them more time.

is there a choice in the matter?

 

[year of the roo]

On Roos, he built his success on the back of guys like Kirk / Bolton / McVeigh......hardly running machines.

You kidding? McVeigh is probably numero uno competition wide, Bolton is no slow slouch and Kirk would just go all day. We have no one in that category. Bastinac one day.

 

[Pykie]

Jarrard McVeigh still held the draft camp beep test record until very recently.... He's close to the best gut runner in the game.

 

[TennisPlayerAndy]

He needs time to regain the sort of confidence he was displaying in 2009.

Two broken legs in two years will shatter anyones confidence out on the field.

He'll be right by the second half of the year.