The BigFooty Liverpool Army - Part 22

[Dagger5]

Maxi would be worth a shot because he and Downing could switch from right to left which is something Downing clearly likes to be able to do.

I wonder how much money the club has to spend in January. You need 20-30 mill IMO to make a charge for the top 4 but Id say you will get half of that at most.

There is absolutely no point giving Kenny or Damien that much money when they have clearly shown they are inept at spending it wisely.

We should bring in Hoillett for 5-10m and leave it at that.

 

[Cooldude]

You can't possibly blame our summer transfers on Comolli though, the dealings all had Kenny written all over it

Plus it's just November, too early to write a few of them off. But certainly the amount of money could be spent more wisely

 

[BlueBen]

It's more that we are operating under the the strategy adopted by FSG upon purchasing the Club, i.e., acquiring mainly talented young/relatively young British players with re-sale value. There are many articles out there where the owners mention this or words to this effect...

 

[Dagger5]

If that is the strategy like its being widely reported, then it has come at the expense of on field success. Downing is 27 now and we wasted 20m on him, even Keane had scored a goal for us by this stage and we all lambasted his signing.

Henderson needs to be deployed in the middle and not on the right and Shelvey should be given a chance when he returns. Adam is a luxury player who should only be used as a substitute and Carroll is hopeless. He is totally reliant on the players around him which is scandulous when you pay 35m for someone.

 

[Del80659]

its not his fault he was 35m. everyone has to adjust to him and to suarez and to each other. "everyone" is basically a new team. we are only just recently developing something close to a starting back four.

 

[Coledinho]

Imagine if you took Chelseas initial offer of 42 mill + Sturridge. Used him and Suarez as strikers then spent the 27-28 mill on Falcao. That would leave a 4-3-3 like (assuming you beat Man United to the punch with Jones)

Reina
Kelly Agger Jones Enrique
Meireles Lucas Gerrard
Suarez Falcao Sturridge

Jizzworthy

 

[moomba]

The whole buy young players with resale value strategy is sound, I'm not sure it's really being applied though.

Downing is getting on, and I can't see Adam or Carroll ever being worth more than what Liverpool paid for them even if they become successful. Henderson might, but that remains to be seen.

And the biggest problem is that buying young and cheap, and buying British are two incompatible strategies. If you're really going to do the moneyball thing you need to look abroad for cheap players with potential, then pad them out with players that aren't working out at other clubs and are undervalued as a result.

Not sure thats going to win you titles but there you go.

 

[Cooldude]

I seriously would've doubted Comolli would had us making so many big money English signings if it was him doing the scouting and business. He has a track record of buying some British player for Spurs but he probably had more picks from abroad

Henderson is the kinda player Kenny would like as well, as is Downing. Carroll was just a disaster from start to finish (though I still hope he might come good eventually). But the likes of Suarez (which was Comolli's), Enrique and Bellamy have proven to be very sound buys, too. Coates certainly has played well when he did play, apart from one howler

Plus I dunno how much resale value you would have of any player who didn't have a proven track record of performance from the start, you risk paying big money for them just for them to end up shite, then you're looking to sell them for far far less than what you sign them for.

 

[kane249]

Hindsight is a wonderful thing isn't it? at the start of the season Downing was seen as the saviour to our wing dilemma and now he's in a form slump he's a shocking buy. End of the day he's only a few months into it and has shown he can perform so he should be given time to justify his price tag, even if it means a spell on the bench to regain his form.

 

[Cooldude]

Downing's fine, he'll get better eventually. It's more like Henderson and Carroll that people are worrying about

 

[kane249]

Downing's fine, he'll get better eventually. It's more like Henderson and Carroll that people are worrying about

Henderson as many have said is getting played out of position and it's stunting his development. At 20 he's still got time to turn it around and has still shown flashes of what he is capable of.

Carroll, well what can you say? We overpaid and we can't deny it. Might still come good but we still got a player who doesn't really suit our style of play and we would have been better off looking elsewhere for better value.

 

[Cooldude]

Henderson is young, but boy atm he is looking way way way out of his depth. Seems to be scared and overawed as well... the mentality's a bit questionable, too. He needs a run in the reserves, and if I see him starting on the right ahead of the likes of Kuyt or even Downing again, I'll go ****ing nanas

 

[Di_Di_Didak]

What we should have done is told Torres he wasn't going anywhere, like Spurs did with Modric, City with Tevez and Utd with Rooney etc. Yeah, £50 mil was a good bit of business but not when we panicked and threw £35 mil at Newcastle for Andy. Even if we only ended up getting £40 for Torres in the Summer, it would've given us time to find the perfect replacement. Or Torres and Suarez might've really gelled and he'd decide to stay. I rated Andy massively at Newcastle and I obviosuly hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it's going to work out for him with us.
Failure to qualify for Champions League would be considered a disaster in the eyes of the owners, but unless they're willing to invest in a Higuain/Cavani type and some pace and flair on the right (Hazard) then I think we'll fall short and Kenny might start to feel the pinch.

 

[Di_Di_Didak]

What we should have done is told Torres he wasn't going anywhere, like Spurs did with Modric, City with Tevez and Utd with Rooney etc. Yeah, £50 mil was a good bit of business but not when we panicked and threw £35 mil at Newcastle for Andy. Even if we only ended up getting £40 for Torres in the Summer, it would've given us time to find the perfect replacement. Or Torres and Suarez might've really gelled and he'd decide to stay. I rated Andy massively at Newcastle and I obviosuly hope I'm wrong, but I don't think it's going to work out for him with us.
Failure to qualify for Champions League would be considered a disaster in the eyes of the owners, but unless they're willing to invest in a Higuain/Cavani type and some pace and flair on the right (Hazard) then I think we'll fall short and Kenny might start to feel the pinch.

 

[jod23]

@ Jod/Cooldude

Kuyt on the right? God no.

He is terrible there - he cant dribble and he's too slow to play on the wing.

He is alright playing forward with Suarez though, they seem to link up well.

He isnt terrible there though. He is only not as good as it could be. The honest answer to our right wing problems is that we dont actually have one right winger at the club. So Kuyt plays there.

Kuyt isnt the quickest player and not the most skillful dribbler but what you do get is a full shift. He will get forward, he will get back and cover, he has a huge tank. He is also very intelligent, knows when to break wide and stay on the touchline, knows when to move inside and knows when to get into the box and get on the end of things.

Maxi isnt much quicker than Kuyt, wont get back and defend and cover Kelly/Johnson's runs forward like DK will. Maxi doesnt have Messi like skills to dribble past players, so really he isnt any better than DK wide.

DK is easily my first choice right winger and he will stay my first choice until we buy a genuine wide right player. Please buy Adam Johnson.

 

[jod23]

Who's better than him though. The only one is Gerrard, injury issues aside, does he really wanna play there?

Henderson on the right is a ****ing mare. Glen Johnson? Maybe, I certainly wouldn't have him at right back either

Kuyt works well with Suarez, too, they link well together. Certainly he shouldn't be dismissed as an option

Ive wanted Glen Johnson wide right for a long time. Id love to see Kelly at RB and Johnson on the right wing. He stays wide, is quick, pretty skillful with the ball at his feet, his delivery is alright, cuts inside and can score goals. Plus being a RB by trade, he can cover Kelly pretty well when Kelly goes on the overlap.

No idea why it has never, not once, being tried.

 

[Kaan]

Torres was playing like rubbish (stilll is) - selling him was a good move.

 

[Kaan]

Ive wanted Glen Johnson wide right for a long time. Id love to see Kelly at RB and Johnson on the right wing. He stays wide, is quick, pretty skillful with the ball at his feet, his delivery is alright, cuts inside and can score goals. Plus being a RB by trade, he can cover Kelly pretty well when Kelly goes on the overlap.

No idea why it has never, not once, being tried.

I've wanted him on the right wing a while ago but now I think he would suck there.

His attacking was good when he first came but now he cant pass a defender to save his life.

 

[jod23]

I've wanted him on the right wing a while ago but now I think he would suck there.

His attacking was good when he first came but now he cant pass a defender to save his life.

I think he is still our best option for RW. He has barely played there and with injuries and the emergence of Kelly he has been in and out of the side. Give him a run at RW. What is actually the worst that could happen. But it doesnt matter anyways, it seems oblivious to everyone at the club that he could play there.

 

[jod23]

Torres was playing like rubbish (stilll is) - selling him was a good move.

It was the right decision but we had so many options. We should not have panic bought. We should not have spent 35 million on Andy Carroll. We should have shown some faith in DK and let him play up top with Suarez which he did anyways because Carroll was basically injured for the rest of the season.

We should have kept that 50 million and spent it more wisely in the summer. Think of the players we could have had a run at. Aguero for one, Hazard, Falcao, you name it, we could have gone after it with that kind of money. And yeah you can say, we couldnt offer CL football but lets be honest. In today's game, football is a mercenary sport. You go where the money is. We buy them, we give them big contracts and were golden.

But instead we spent all out money on squad players.

 

[Dagger5]

The thing that stings me the most as it is everyone else, is the fact that this transfer window will set us back by about 2 years in the best case scenario. Woy's transfers were lambasted and rightly so, but we managed to shift them all off after a year. We won't find it as easy to shift out Downing, Carroll and Adam since we will have to make huge losses and I don't think we will be willing to do that.

Henderson still has hope so I will exclude him for now even though he was expensive, but Carroll was a total brain-explosion. Adam is a luxury player that should be used off the bench but Kenny has other ideas and it's costing us. Gerrard sadly enough is a write-off at this stage so I think we should be putting as much time as possible into Henderson and Shelvey playing midfield.

Then next summer our first order of business should be to find ourselves a clinical goal poacher who can finish off the countless chances our current lot waste. The next order of business should be to try and entice Marko Marin to replace Kuyt on the flank which should give us much more cutting edge and take the pressure off Suarez. We should offload Johnson, Carroll and probably Downing if there is willing buyers. Hoillett, Marin plus a clinical goal poacher will undo a lot of the damage from this summer. The time for wasting money on spuds must stop if we are to become a force again.

 

[jod23]

But again I dont want to get too down on Kenny, on Commolli, on any of the players or on FSG or anything like that. I think given the success the club has had in it's history that we as fans tend to expect results, expect trophies and expect success. But our club has just come out of some it's darkest days and had back to back seasons where we finished 7th and 6th.

Look at City for example, they were given a sugar daddy so far in advance of our own and with so much more money yet they have still taken the best part of three years to become a threat to win the league and are now just enjoying their first taste of Champions League football. Success takes time and we expect it immediately.

We were coming back from almost going into administration, we had two horrendous, greedy owners who almost destroyed the club and drove away one of the finest managers in world football. Then replaced him with a moron who was horribly out of his depth who then bought atrociously.

FSG, KK and DC took on a club going backwards with many overpaid, useless spuds. Yet they have managed to move on and clear a hell of a lot of dead wood. Konch, Poulsen, Cole, El Zhar, N'Gog, Babel, Greek, Jovanovic, the list goes on and on. So the first round of buying players hasnt gone exactly the way we wanted it to. It was never going to happen overnight. There was no way FSG could just buy 5 or so players and suddenly we would win the league. It's going to a long fought out process of getting back to the top.

Many of you might say that we werent expecting to win the league but wanted a return to the top 4 but it has never been harder than it is now to finish in the top 4. You have established clubs in Utd and Chelsea, moneybags City and despite Arsenals shortcomings, are still a force to be reckoned with. Then you have Spurs who have just gotten better and better and better.

I think maybe were expecting a little too much and expecting it all to happen right now. I guess I expect that too and I think I have to realise like all of us on here that it's a going to take a few years before the whole FSG revolution can really pay dividends.

 

[jod23]

The thing that stings me the most as it is everyone else, is the fact that this transfer window will set us back by about 2 years in the best case scenario. Woy's transfers were lambasted and rightly so, but we managed to shift them all off after a year. We won't find it as easy to shift out Downing, Carroll and Adam since we will have to make huge losses and I don't think we will be willing to do that.

Henderson still has hope so I will exclude him for now even though he was expensive, but Carroll was a total brain-explosion. Adam is a luxury player that should be used off the bench but Kenny has other ideas and it's costing us. Gerrard sadly enough is a write-off at this stage so I think we should be putting as much time as possible into Henderson and Shelvey playing midfield.

Then next summer our first order of business should be to find ourselves a clinical goal poacher who can finish off the countless chances our current lot waste. The next order of business should be to try and entice Marko Marin to replace Kuyt on the flank which should give us much more cutting edge and take the pressure off Suarez. We should offload Johnson, Carroll and probably Downing if there is willing buyers. Hoillett, Marin plus a clinical goal poacher will undo a lot of the damage from this summer. The time for wasting money on spuds must stop if we are to become a force again.

But this is just it, if we expect to get back into the CL this season or in coming seasons, make deep cup runs and make a run at a long awaited league title, we cant be selling these players. Whoever we buy to be in the starting 11 that doesnt mean selling Johnson, Downing, Adam and Carroll. That means those guys being on the bench and making the squad really strong.

I mean a bench of Doni, Coates, Johnson, Downing, Adam, Carroll and Kuyt means our starting 11 must be shit hot. And it needs to be, we dont sell these players, we upgrade them. Get a world class LW and RW, get a better CM than Adam and bring it a prolific striker that keeps Carroll on the bench. They all have their good points. Adam's passing range, Downing is a pretty consistent winger, Carroll aerial ability, Johnson pace and ability to be direct, Kuyt's workrate.

But if they are all on the bench then our starting 11 hopefully has players like Hazard, A.Johnson, Hamsik, Lucas Moura, Falcao etc etc...

 

[Del80659]

the trick is to expect and demand success because we are Liverpool but also hold your head high and do not badmouth the club. use constructive criticism and support our players instead of giving up on them already. the season is still young for mine and kenny is getting time into who he wants while keeping the rest of the squad hot. and we haven't had any disasters yet except tottenham.

i mean if adam's rocket at everton went in, downing's superb cross was actually met by kuyt (maybe wolves) and henderson, carroll and downing got us the three points against utd, norwich and swansea with their chances things would be so rosy on forums it would be sickening. but that's football so let's have some perspective

 

[Hawthorn United]

That all sounds good in theory but where's the money going to come from to buy the upgrades?

And players aren't fans of the club. They'll see that their starting places are under threat from the new additions. Some will relish the challenge and fight for their place, while others will see the writing on the wall and request a transfer. They won't be sacrificing their career for the benefit of the team.