Rate these 4 players

[LouisCK]

Then dont post in this thread. Simple.

Nobody needs to know you dont have an opinion on the topic. My snap decision is that youre an attention seeker.

The thread is about rating the four players listed. I'm happy to rate three of them. I dare say a lot of people posting in this thread haven't seen enough of all four players to make truly informed opinion, but at least I admit when there's someone I don't hold a steady opinion on.

If that's an issue for you, I guess you'll just have to deal with it.

 

[Falchoon]

People know Ben Reid was AA CHB right?

Jack Watts would look good in a team that averages 15.5 more inside 50's than their opponents, and vice versa.


(17.8 without rd.22)

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

The thread is about rating the four players listed. I'm happy to rate three of them.

Its about ranking them from 1-4.

 

[LouisCK]

Its about ranking them from 1-4.

And I am doing so to the best of ability.

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Jack Watts would look good in a team that averages 15.5 more inside 50's than their opponents, and vice versa.


(17.8 without rd.22)

Well yes he would because hes a forward. Reid isnt. Yet.

Its the old chicken and egg argument....does a good player contribute to a good side to make them good, or is the player crap and simply carried by his team. Just about every player on the Collingwood list has been accused of being overrated and being made to look good by his teammates.

I prefer to see the glass half full. You clearly dont. Reid had an outstanding year in a season when the backline had a lot more instability than in the previous season....injuries suspension and form weakened the defence....and Reid was the one shining light, along with the dour defence of Tarrant.

 

[Ambrosia]

Next year

1. Hurley
2. Reid
3. Watts
4. Henderson


10 years

1. Watts
2. Reid
3. Hurley
4. Henderson

You realise its Ben Reid not Sam?

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I'd suggest having Henderson in the list may indicate you didn't follow your own rule..

LOL, if they hadnt gotten rid of Josh Kennedy they wouldnt have needed Henderson.

 

[LouisCK]

Timmy, what's your opinion of the loss of Brown for 2011 compared with the addition of Tarrant?

Was it basically an equal swap, or do you think the defence struggled more than previous years? Or were they actually better?

 

[Blue and Silver]

Well yes he would because hes a forward. Reid isnt. Yet.

Its the old chicken and egg argument....does a good player contribute to a good side to make them good, or is the player crap and simply carried by his team.

I prefer to see the glass half full. You clearly dont. Reid had an outstanding year in a season when the backline had a lot more instability than in the previous season....injuries suspension and form weakened the defence....and Reid was the one shining light, along with the dour defence of Tarrant.

Partly because I hate to talk up Collingwood players I would mention that Reid was IMO the second best KPD this year after McPharlin, and would of been fourth if Jamison and Merrett hadn't been injured. Nonetheless clearly the most accomplished of the four as of yet, although he is a year ahead on Henderson and two on Watts and Hurley.

re: Henderson I think it should be noted that in his time at Carlton (his third and fourth years) he is yet to have a full pre-season. Irregardless in 2010 he scored 25 goals, and in 2011 he ended as an effective defender. Statistically he compares well to the other if we take their third years as the comparison point (Hurley and Watts just completed theirs, Reid's was 2009, Henderson's was 2010).

 

[Timmy from Thomastown]

It was an equal swap. Brown will be a good player for the next 6-8 years, but Tarrant at age 30 was a good and timely pickup. Browns still young and had only just entrenched himself back in the 22 in the second half of 2010.

We did lose the flexibility option to throw Tarrant or Reid or Brown forward though, especially when Dawes got injured. Or the flexibility to drop Leigh Brown when his form wavered.

Our problems in defence, despite losing Brown, werent in key position. They were injuries to Maxwell and Toovey, suspension to Shaw, and form issues with O'Brien, being a little down on confidence.

 

[Silvagnis]

Now:

1. Reid
2. Hurley
3. Henderson
4. Watts

10 years:

1. Hurley - can play at both ends, but should own Essendon's forwardline
2. Watts - harshly rated considering his talent, skill and athleticism. Collingwood were playing finals and had more talent than the Demons, yet Ben Reid was predominantly a VFL player in his first three seasons. No one wanted a bar of Hawkins before the finals.
3. Reid Henderson - wonder how Henderson's games on Franklin, Petrie, Clark and both Riewoldts in 2011 compare to Reid's fourth year and finals. Setanta kicked five against Reid and Brown last year. Lachie was forced to learn on the job. Similar games with both athletic, skilled and attacking CHBs who cutoff plays with nicely timed marks.

 

[Falchoon]

Well yes he would because hes a forward. Reid isnt. Yet.

I'll re-word it just for you

Jack Watts would look good in a team that allows an average of 15.5 less defensive inside 50's than their opponents, and vice versa.

Its the old chicken and egg argument....

yes it's definitely a theoretical argument

does a good player contribute to a good side to make them good, or is the player crap and simply carried by his team.

exactly 'would Reid look as good with the ball being lobbed on his head 15 times more per game, or conversely would Watts be a better player with 15 more opportunities per game & presumably cleaner entires'

the OP's question needs theorising before an opinionated answer can be given,

If the question was who had the better 2011, I'm going with the AA.

I prefer to see the glass half full. You clearly dont.

Definitely half full on Watts, he's much underestimated around these parts.

Reid had an outstanding year in a season when the backline had a lot more instability than in the previous season....injuries suspension and form weakened the defence....and Reid was the one shining light, along with the dour defence of Tarrant.

As said if the question was who had the better 2011, I'm going with the AA.

it wasn't, I'm not

 

[Falchoon]

You realise its Ben Reid not Sam?

Sam I'd have 5th and 1st/2nd

 

[themidlandmaster]

Timmy, what's your opinion of the loss of Brown for 2011 compared with the addition of Tarrant?

Was it basically an equal swap, or do you think the defence struggled more than previous years? Or were they actually better?

A slight improvement, if anything, Simply because Tarrant was capable of dealing with Buddy. He averages six goals against us in the three years before 2011.

Michael Hurley
Ben Reid
Jack Watts
Lachie Henderson

For now and in ten years

 

[good samaratin]

Michael Hurley 9
Jack Watts 8
Ben Reid 7

Lachie Henderson 5

 

[mediumsizered]

Be as objective as possible please and leaving club allegiances at the door.

Rate not what your team needs just on the players merits alone.

Rank 1 to 4 who you would want next year.

Then rank 1 to 4 who you would want for the next 10 years, injuries aside.


Jack Watts
Michael Hurley
Lachie Henderson
Ben Reid

You get called out on the Carlton board for ignoring the fact of why Henderson was moved to defence in 2011, so you start a thread on the Main Board where you can be among like-minded posters. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Perhaps you should actually take the time to watch our games from the second half of the season when Henderson was playing on the opposition's best forward in Jamo's absence. Acquitted himself a lot better than anyone would have expected.

FWIW, On output so far, it would be Reid, Hurley, Henderson, Watts.

In 10 years time? Who knows. There are so many factors to come into play. You look at someone like Matthew Egan, who was on the verge of AA selection & then in a short space of time was out of the game due to an unfortunate injury. Or you look at Nathan Ablett. 40+ goals in a premiership year & 4 years later, delisted by the 17th placed GC Suns. Who would have thought Leigh Brown would be a key player in a premiership, after being a very ordinary player at both Fremantle & North Melbourne?

 

[fishardansin]

You get called out on the Carlton board for ignoring the fact of why Henderson was moved to defence in 2011, so you start a thread on the Main Board where you can be among like-minded posters. Tsk, tsk, tsk. Perhaps you should actually take the time to watch our games from the second half of the season when Henderson was playing on the opposition's best forward in Jamo's absence. Acquitted himself a lot better than anyone would have expected.

FWIW, On output so far, it would be Reid, Hurley, Henderson, Watts.

In 10 years time? Who knows. There are so many factors to come into play. You look at someone like Matthew Egan, who was on the verge of AA selection & then in a short space of time was out of the game due to an unfortunate injury. Or you look at Nathan Ablett. 40+ goals in a premiership year & 4 years later, delisted by the 17th placed GC Suns. Who would have thought Leigh Brown would be a key player in a premiership, after being a very ordinary player at both Fremantle & North Melbourne?

I can not agree more with your last paragraph. I'm sure none of them will go down the path of Nathan Ablett but it is not uncommon to have a career ruined by injury.

 

[Vdubs]

Reid 8.0
Hurley 8.5
Henderson 7.5
Watts 8.0

They are ALL potential matchwinners, Hurley would be my #1 choice for Geelong, but all 4 are worthy ,and in 12 months we could be rating Henderson 9/10!

 

[LouisCK]

Watts has had a better output than Henderson, to say otherwise is pretty silly.

 

[blaze036]

After reading all the posts, ben reid is getting absolutly jibbed... Please watch his 2011 season, head and shoulders above hurleys season. He killed everyone he played on (except for the grannie when he was injured) and was rightfully all australian, provided exceptional rebound and rarely lost a 1on1. His biggest asset was that instead of spoiling his opponent like most tall defenders, he has a habit of actually out marking them and then spearing a 55 metre pass.

To all the many many people who have Hurley ahead of Reid now u are either an essendon supporter or u've been caught up in their worship of him. In 10 years time? u could say reid hurley or watts comfortably, noone knows.

 

[the doc]

This year, and for the next 10:

Hurley
Reid
...daylight...
Watts
Henderson

Agree 100%. Reid and Hurley will be elite.

Watt's has more athletic potential than Henderson and could become an A grade player. Henderson will be a solid swing man.

 

[invinciBlues]

and in 12 months we could be rating Henderson 9/10!

Bigfooty will never allow that. Repeat after me: Judd is useless and can't kick, Gibbs is a chipscab who floats around halfback, Jacobs was our best ruckman (only after he was traded, of course), Jamison is serviceable at best, and lets not get started on Waite.

Murphy goes alright though.

For the list:

2012

Hurley (reckon he's gonna burst out of the blocks next/this year)
Reid
Henderson/Watts

10 Years

Hurley
Henderson
Reid
...
Watts

I still feel Watts went a little higher than what he was mentally prepared for (around 15-20 would've been best in my opinion). Maybe he won't look so frustrated next season, but we'll see.

Hurley is the clear winner for mine

 

[invinciBlues]

After reading all the posts, ben reid is getting absolutly jibbed... Please watch his 2011 season, head and shoulders above hurleys season.

Reid played a fantastic season in a team with excellent coaching, excellent game plan, and upper echelon players surrounding him.

Hurley played a great season for a club with none of those attributes.

 

[blaze036]

Reid played a fantastic season in a team with excellent coaching, excellent game plan, and upper echelon players surrounding him.

Hurley played a great season for a club with none of those attributes.

Ive seen this argument used against collingwood SO many times..."their only good because their surrounded by stars". You just have to replace Reid with sidebottom beams thomas dawes basically everyone except swan and pendlebury on our whole goddam list!

He was one of the upper echelon players surrounding others, not the other way around. Theres a reason we finished top of the ladder with an amazing percentage and were close to winning the grand final, and reid is a BIG part of it.

And havnt essendon supporters been saying numerous times that they have the best coaching team in the league? or one of the best. Its a cop out to say Reid is better only because he had better coaches and a better game plan, how on earth do u know that? Maybe essendons game plan was better but they had worse players, maybe essendon have a better coaching team in the first place.

Reids being very harshly dealt imo

 

[DWil6]

Reid
Hurley
Watts
Henderson but not as harsh a mark as some here suggest

Future
I suspect Hurley and Watts will become predominant forwards so it's tough to compare the 4 but I'd imagine Reid would make their lives hell. He just has that appeal. Athletic, raking accurate kick, great overhead. And a very good play reader. Sam Reid looks very exciting early too.