Mega Thread Matt Rendell situation thread #2

[King Elvis]

Interesting.. gives legs to my comment earlier about his whole academy proposal being fundamentally racist and similar in concept to the whole "Stolen Generations" issue.

Except it happens already for plenty of country kids who have AFL potential - and it's optional.

 

[RocknRoll]

That would be like saying that someone who volunteers in a poor village in a 3rd world country, like in Africa, who comes back from their visit and refers to those in the village as "they" or "them" and says that it would be good if they got out of their village to give themselves a better chance at a good life, if that's what they want and tries to help that to happen is "racist".


Please tell me he doesn't work for the AFL that we all love.




I hope he's copping it big-time on there. I've never had any desire to join up to Twitter before, but now I can see a value in it.

I am just trying to work out what the big deal is here but I think this might be the crux of the problem.

From these retweets its not just the "one white parent" comment but also the proposed solution ... setting up the scholarships to train the kids from a young age.

Now from one perspective (western) this might be seen as obviously a desirable thing ... getting kids into good schools to get an education, with a good chance of a fantastic career in AFL afterwards.

But from another perspective "Good model is to get them to leave home at 14. No, not racist at all." it might be suggesting that some think "their" way of life is so woeful that of course "they" would jump at the chance of sending their kids off to the other side of the country at age 14. This could be offensive if the assumption was the western way was so obviously better it is a no-brainer.

Of course such scholarships are voluntary and there should be no coercion. But if Matt took the perspective that mothers should obviously jump at the chance ... well maybe that was the problem. He was looking at it from the perspective of getting more indigenous kids playing AFL. But maybe that is not what is necessarily best for the kids? And dare I say it, the attitude has some similarities to the stolen generations, where children were taken by the assumption they would have better lives.

I am just joining the dots here - not saying what is right or wrong - just trying to work out what was so offensive. And if he took this tack, which would seem consistent with his views in his interview, I can see why it might be taken badly.

But worth losing his job over? It does seem to be pretty excessive when an explanation would seem more appropriate.

 

[Southerntakeover]

As distinct from the stolen generation, the premise of which was to better integrate them into white society so that they could have success in the long run and have lives of value?

The language is so transparently similar that the ideas are almost identical. One is fundamentally racist - how can the other one not be?

Im assuming you feel that drafting indigenous players is inherently racist, and akin to the stolen generation too then?

 

[Vader]

If he wasn't to call them, a community that he isn't a part of, "them" or "their", what is he supposed to call them? This is political correctness going to ridiculous extremes. Racism is only racism if there is hatred or an intent to hurt behind it. Not if you simply refer to a community that you don't feel a part of by the word "them". They call themselves "we", or "brothers", etc. does that make them racist?

Racism doesn't require hatred. Ignorance works just as well.

I don't believe that Rendell had any intention of being racist. I don't believe he has a racist bone in his body. However, his academy proposal is based on some fundamentally racist premise - the very same premise responsible for the Stolen Generations. It's a matter of ignorance rather than intent.

As for you suggesting that the idea that they get scholarships to go to schools in the big cities at 14 (like Cyril Rioli did, which he thinks helped him so much) is "racist", is also ridiculous. No one would be taking them against their will. It is just a suggestion to help those who WANT TO to have a better chance of making it in the AFL, IF THEY WANT TO. That is an opportunity that many would love to have. It's not being "racist".

Rioli was sent to Melbourne by his family. By definition that's not racist.

For a white person to demand the same thing of an aboriginal from a remote community would be very much racist in concept.

That's pretty bloody easy to answer. One group were taken AGAINST THEIR WILL. The other are getting an opportunity that they are completely free to knock back or turn their back on at any time.

Being taken against their will made it illegal, it's not what made it a racist policy.

If that is racism, so is sending money to "3rd world countries" (that you wouldn't send to wealthier countries) to help them out.

Umm.. no. That's positive racial discrimination. Asking them to a 1st world country because of their poverty at home.. now that's racist.

I actually think that there is creedance to Vader's theory. Ali didn't listen to the proposal and intention properly. He just saw an Aussie in his mind saying 'We need to take them away from their communities' instead of 'We need to give thespre kids every chance of success' He got offended and stopped listening and was out for blood.

Exactly!

 

[Truck Rutten]

If he wasn't to call them, a community that he isn't a part of, "them" or "their", what is he supposed to call them? This is political correctness going to ridiculous extremes. Racism is only racism if there is hatred or an intent to hurt behind it. Not if you simply refer to a community that you don't feel a part of by the word "them". They call themselves "we", or "brothers", etc. does that make them racist?

As for you suggesting that the idea that they get scholarships to go to schools in the big cities at 14 (like Cyril Rioli did, which he thinks helped him so much) is "racist", is also ridiculous. No one would be taking them against their will. It is just a suggestion to help those who WANT TO to have a better chance of making it in the AFL, IF THEY WANT TO. That is an opportunity that many would love to have. It's not being "racist".

That's pretty bloody easy to answer. One group were taken AGAINST THEIR WILL. The other are getting an opportunity that they are completely free to knock back, or turn their back on, at any time. That is one of the biggest differences you could possibly imagine. It's like the difference between rape and consentual sex.

If that is racism, so is sending money to "3rd world countries" (that you wouldn't send to wealthier countries) to help them out.

The age 14, as you say, came from the story about Cyril. I thought Rendell actually said under his idea that (insert PC term for the collective of human beings that I dare not apply a descriptor to, for fear of possibly being labelled a racist) would come to the city on a scholarship for their last 2 years of School, so closer to 16.

 

[jenny61_99]

You do realise that the premise of the idea is to better integrate them into the afl system so they can have sucess in the long run with what they ARE talented at! Stolen generation....your a joke!

Hang on, don't go off half cocked. What vader says has some merit. While we might not see suggesting young afl boys be offered a chance to move away from their homes in regional areas to city schools and afl academy as any big deal - given they have a choice to participate or not, the indigenous community have very real and recent wounds with the stolen generation. For us to suggest that they would be better off living away from their cultural heritage in order to help them succeed at the afl level, is not very far removed from the 70s where "we" believed aboriginal children would assimilate better, if they lived with white families and into white schools.

 

[ruscy002]

Denial is not a river in Egypt. Just because you don't like the message I have, does not mean that I'm not getting close to the truth. It certainly sounds like it, based on Fahour's comments.

*** Note that we've yet to hear from Misfud - and we haven't even heard what supposedly offended Vlad so much that he formed a one-man lynch mob.

It would be an honour and a privilege to be one of the few selected for such an academy, this is a far cry from the stolen generation ideals. Being able to speak English as a first language and integrating into modern society would be a huge advantage over an AFL hopeful who hasn't been offered this scenario, whether they're Indigenous Australians or Fijians.

Rendell used the very un-PC "white" descriptor - maybe a more PC person would've used "modern society" or something like that, but this does not mean his intentions hold any undertones of ethnic cleansing whatsoever.

 

[Vader]

Im assuming you feel that drafting indigenous players is inherently racist, and akin to the stolen generation too then?

Hardly, given that players of all races have to go through the exact same process.

Do it mate. Guy's a ****ing clown.

Just because you disagree with his opinions doesn't make him a clown. Actually, posting like this when you have no idea what he heard and/or felt makes you look like a clown.

Umm no...Stolen generation children were removed forcibly under acts of parliament, big difference to "wanna go to the city and play footy son"...son says no, parents say ok then its called a CHOICE!

You're missing the point.. probably intentionally.

It's the entire thought process which underlies both his academy plan and the stolen generations that is fundamentally racist.

 

[Cap]

Do it mate. Guy's a ****ing clown.

done

 

[ManInTheArena]

Our friend ClayMonk said this the other night. I told him he was making it up.


"I don't know that it was the AFL that did the executing. Rendell has been unprofessional on many occasions and whilst we enjoy his "straight talk", it is not usualy a good thing for the club. I think Trigg was sick of him blabbing to be honest, and I wouldn't blame him if this was the straw that broke the camels back"

ClayMonk, would you like to expand on this because you may have actually had a point.

I'm only speculating based on the limited facts that I have whilst drawing on my own experiences.

Firstly, we know Rendell has a lack of restraint when speaking and, reading between the lines, he has been warned about this on several occasions. He eluded to this himself on 5AA when he said to Rowey and Cornes that he couldn't answer a question because he keeps getting in trouble.

Secondly, I have had to sack someone for the exact same behavior. The person reminded exactly of Rendell. - straight shooter, rough around the edges, everyone loved them, but unprofessional, loose lipped and kept leaving shit for me to clean up. The person was BRILLIANT at their job (same as Rendell) which made sacking them extremely difficult. I tried many strategies to get them to change the unwanted behavior but the person just didn't get it, or frankly didn't want to change. I got sick of covering their ass and cleaning up their shit so I had to sack them.

I think Trigg had warned Rendell on more than one occasion about his lack of restraint and I don't think this latest incident can viewed in isolation.

 

[Vader]

It would be an honour and a privilege to be one of the few selected for such an academy, this is a far cry from the stolen generation ideals. Being able to speak English as a first language and integrating into modern society would be a huge advantage over an AFL hopeful who hasn't been offered this scenario, whether they're Indigenous Australians or Fijians.

I'm doing a fantastic job of butchering the english language in trying to make my point. Have a read of what Jenny wrote and see if you can understand why the whole academy concept could be seen to be fundamentally racist at heart:

While we might not see suggesting young afl boys be offered a chance to move away from their homes in regional areas to city schools and afl academy as any big deal - given they have a choice to participate or not, the indigenous community have very real and recent wounds with the stolen generation. For us to suggest that they would be better off living away from their cultural heritage in order to help them succeed at the afl level, is not very far removed from the 70s where "we" believed aboriginal children would assimilate better, if they lived with white families and into white schools.

 

[Dolemite]

Hardly, given that players of all races have to go through the exact same process.

Just because you disagree with his opinions doesn't make him a clown. Actually, posting like this when you have no idea what he heard and/or felt makes you look like a clown.

You're missing the point.. probably intentionally.

It's the entire thought process which underlies both his academy plan and the stolen generations that is fundamentally racist.

What do you suggest to combat the high attrition rate in aboriginal footballers?

 

[Vader]

Stop peddling this stupid ****ing idea. Stolen generation = no choice in the matter. Academy proposal = choice, and privilege/advantage.

It's not about choice. It's about the fundamental thought processes underlying the whole concept. Sheesh.. how many times do I have to repeat myself before people remove their blinkers and start looking more than 1mm deep into the issue?

 

[jenny61_99]

What do you suggest to combat the high attrition rate in aboriginal footballers?

Academies within their communities?

 

[ManInTheArena]

Who made that stupid poll? Worst poll I've ever seen. It's a conglomeration.

 

[Vader]

What do you suggest to combat the high attrition rate in aboriginal footballers?

I don't have any easy solutions. This is an incredibly difficult and sensitive area, with the borders between being politically correct, racist and just plain pragmatic being blurred to the point where they are almost indistinct.

The final solution will probably involve changing the way the clubs approach the players, rather than trying to change the players themselves. Acceptance of diversity, although difficult to manage, is probably going to be the key to finding a solution.

 

[Cap]

Academies within their communities?

shouldn't everyone then have an academy near by?

what makes aboriginals special that they get one in their community and say Salisbury doesn't?

 

[Dolemite]

Academies within their communities?

How does that address culture shock and the reality of playing within a cut throat environment?

 

[Stevie_Crow]

Really disappointed with Trigg tonight on AA, not a great deal of substance in regards to defending the clubs decision.

 

[jenny61_99]

shouldn't everyone then have an academy near by?

what makes aboriginals special that they get one in their community and say Salisbury doesn't?

The Brisbane lions have an academy here in Brisbane. I'm sure it would be possible to establish academies in different locations where anyone identified as having qualities in this area could be encouraged to participate.

 

[Truck Rutten]

Hardly, given that players of all races have to go through the exact same process.

Just because you disagree with his opinions doesn't make him a clown. Actually, posting like this when you have no idea what he heard and/or felt makes you look like a clown.

You're missing the point.. probably intentionally.

It's the entire thought process which underlies both his academy plan and the stolen generations that is fundamentally racist.

The stolen generation was about getting indigenous kids into TAC cup footy to help make the transition to the AFL level, rather than be faced with the massive demands of moving to a new, big city and becoming a full time footballer in one leap?

 

[Dolemite]

I don't have any easy solutions. This is an incredibly difficult and sensitive area, with the borders between being politically correct, racist and just plain pragmatic being blurred to the point where they are almost indistinct.

So essentially nothing gets done because it becomes too convoluted, lines get blurred, people are incredibly sensitive and we don't step on toes. Isn't Rendell just saying cut the crap? There is a problem and nobody will do anything about it for fear of being branded racist.

 

[King Elvis]

Vader, country footballers come to the city for high school football programs; it's effectively doing a similar thing, but doing it with a structure.

The stolen generation was clearly a terrible, racist policy - but this isn't comparable unless you want it to be.

 

[Dolemite]

The stolen generation was about getting indigenous kids into TAC cup footy to help make the transition to the AFL level, rather than be faced with the massive demands of moving to a new, big city and becoming a full time footballer in one leap?

Great quote.

 

[King Elvis]

It's not about choice. It's about the fundamental thought processes underlying the whole concept. Sheesh.. how many times do I have to repeat myself before people remove their blinkers and start looking more than 1mm deep into the issue?

You're projecting the stolen generation stuff onto it.