Rumour The Thread formerly known as the rumour file, now with zero rumours

[LanceRomance]

I wouldn't be upset with a Warnock for Cloke "swap" (purely in the interest of diplomatic relations lol) ... however, Free Agency was bought in for a reason so perhaps we should exploit it, and trade Warnock elsewhere in order to help facilitate other trades for us? (to GWS perhaps?)

We've been screwed over by other clubs in the past (see: Jacobs and Grigg), it's time for us to exploit our competitors.

Good points

 

[LanceRomance]

How would that save us money?
If Warnock wants to leave, we can trade him for a draft pick/s or another required player, as well as getting Cloke under FA.

What drugs are you on where you think we would give a good player to the Filth for free?

I was on no drugs I was suggesting we TRADE for him.

 

[HARKER]

We may only be tyre kicking and just wanting to be seen to be doing something.
No doubt we'd love Cloke, but doubt we'd be prepared to put so many eggs into one basket.



Your excuse Lance.

 

[Stamos]

I was on no drugs I was suggesting we TRADE for him.

Why would we trade for him when if he wants to come to Carlton we can just take him?

 

[JG38]

Still think somone like Charlie Dixon, Rhys Stanley, Travis Boack, Josh Caddy would need to be targetted. Not sure what their current wage bracket will be like but dangling $350k carrots towards Rhys Stanley, Charlie Dixon and Josh Caddy would be enticing I would have thought.

 

[LanceRomance]

Why would we trade for him when if he wants to come to Carlton we can just take him?

Maybe he will come cheaper (in terms of salary cap) at the trade table than via free agency. Thats why?

We need a tall forward more than we need anything else.
We could be greedy and end up with nothing other than a few maybes out of GWS and GC via Warnock trade.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

Maybe he will come cheaper (in terms of salary cap) at the trade table than via free agency. Thats why?

We need a tall forward more than we need anything else.
We could be greedy and end up with nothing other than a few maybes out of GWS and GC via Warnock trade.

I doubt this.

If he was willing to sign on for less money - he would stay at Collingwood.

 

[mark121]

Very droll Malifice

I was suggesting that he may not be taken under free agency.

If Collingwood are going to lose him (for reasons other than money) or if they can't afford him they will try and take him to the trade table to suit them

May save us lots of money

Cloke wont leave for less money than Collingwood would offer and compensation Collingwood would get from the AFL would be worth more than Warnock assuming they would get 2 first round picks for him.

Unless Carlton are offering money outside the cap (some kind of Visy deal which would be illegal if arranged by the club) it just cant happen besides you would need to trade much more than just Warnock IMO.

What you could see is a secondry deal trading a ruckman for draft picks but it would be a seperate deal.

 

[Stamos]

Maybe he will come cheaper (in terms of salary cap) at the trade table than via free agency. Thats why?

He won't. The only reason he will leave the Filth is if he is offered more money than they will pay. That will be the price regardless, we will not benefit in anyway by giving them a player for him.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Lance, I don't think there is any way known to man that Carlton will trade for him. It would essentially be loosing a player for no reason.

I don't think the "may get him cheaper" argument holds any weight either. We will still need to pay him about $1 mil a year to lure him away from Collingwood. If he is going to sign a a lower salary he will just stay at Collingwood.

 

[I bleed Blue]

^^^ Looks like 4 of us posted a similar response in the space of 1 minute.

 

[LanceRomance]

Lance, I don't think there is any way known to man that Carlton will trade for him. It would essentially be loosing a player for no reason.

I don't think the "may get him cheaper" argument holds any weight either. We will still need to pay him about $1 mil a year to lure him away from Collingwood. If he is going to sign a a lower salary he will just stay at Collingwood.

Maybe he isn't happy there and this impossible contract they are chasing is a smoke screen?

 

[I bleed Blue]

Maybe he isn't happy there and this impossible contract they are chasing is a smoke screen?

Look, that could be the case, but I still cant see the CFC trading for him. If we want him, we will take him as a free agent if he truely does want to leave on reduced wage. We are simply not giving away a player when there is no need to.

 

[LanceRomance]

Look, that could be the case, but I still cant see the CFC trading for him. If we want him, we will take him as a free agent if he truely does want to leave on reduced wage. We are simply not giving away a player when there is no need to.

Fair enough, I put the idea out there

 

[I bleed Blue]

Fair enough, I put the idea out there

No harm in putting ideas out there.

I see your point of trying to get him for less money. 1 mil a year over 5 years is quite outrageous.

 

[KennyHunter9]

I've got no doubt that our quietness in the trade period last year (just as our window was opening and most teams would be "topping up") was all about FA. We'll get something good out of this period, I am sure. Impossible for a club like Carlton to stare down such an offer.

Cloke would work really well in our structure. Lead up forward who can clear out space for the little guys or leave a resting ruckman / Walks one out in the goal square. How dangerous would Waite then be floating in from the wing / HFF, running through 50 toward the goal (rather than away)?

Still, I expect that Travis wants to hang out with good guys like Heather, Swanny and Dids. And I expect that David is bidding up the price with the hope that the Pies will add a year and a few hundred thousand to the contract.

 

[LanceRomance]

No harm in putting ideas out there.

I see your point of trying to get him for less money. 1 mil a year over 5 years is quite outrageous.

Yeah it is concerning and as we have seen with Mitch Clarke it doesn't come without risk

We still have to keep Yarran, which is a major concern. The rumour mill is very quiet on Yazz... hurry up and sign buddy.

 

[I bleed Blue]

Yeah it is concerning and as we have seen with Mitch Clarke it doesn't come without risk

We still have to keep Yarran, which is a major concern. The rumour mill is very quiet on Yazz... hurry up and sign buddy.

We definatly have to get Yaz signed up. Put a 3 year contract in front of him CFC and get it done.

 

[C4[2]Yo`DooR]

The beauty about this situation is that it is basically a win/win for us.

At the end of the day we either:

1. Get Travis Cloke as our FF which adds to our line up and makes us a more dangerous team.

2. Force Collingwood’s hand to pay him more, and in return tighten up their cap and force other players to leave.

The situation is made easier (IMO) by the fact that he is a FA - so there is no time wasting and stuffing around trying to facilitate a trade (ala Trade Week each and every year), so if need be, we can turn our attention elsewhere very quickly.

 

[The Coach]

Adding Cloke to our list will not solve our problems, and I agree it would force others out of the club due to his ridiculous salary. Our problems seem to be between the ears and also limited footskills. If we can't deliver the ball to Cloke, having him there won't make one bit of difference. We have an abundance of talent in the forward line, we just need to learn how to deliver the ball to them instead of bombing it in and relying on Eddie Betts to Mark it.

I think the last half of the North v WCE game was a classic example of how a strong marking big man provides the icing for your good midfield

 

[blue healer]

I don't like Cloke much, but then again I didn't like Diesel or Rhys Jones before they wore our colours either but the fact remains that he is one of the 2 most dominant forwards in the comp and is rising 25yo. Has at least 5 years in him.

We are, arguably, a mature bodied KPF from a premiership with a reasonable run with injuries and would be mad to not throw our hat in the ring for him if there is even a remote chance of getting him.

Price seems high but so is the potential reward and I would presume that the club would not make an offer of that value without assessing immediate and future salary cap problems.

 

[jimsta10]

Only if the trade was a decent one. We wouldn't throw away a ruckman for a song because we felt guilty over taking one of their players. They would get compensatory picks in the draft for anything they lose due to free agency.

I still don't want Cloke on the money he wants. He's a good focal point but he has had one stellar season and another excellent season but still frustrates even his own fans. We need his type but not at any cost.

Its one of those situations where it will either make or break a club. Say, if we pull it off and win a flag within the next 2 years some will be calling us genius.. If we fail.....the ramifications will be tremendous.

I'm for... We need to make the Pies sweat a little longer.

 

[coryne]

I personally think Cloke isn't worth more than say $750k/year. Sure he is a great contested mark, but he has only kicked more than 50 goals once in his career and his accuracy is pretty crap (and fading compared to last year). Fisher was also a pretty good mark, but a shocking kick at goal ......... The ONLY reason he is being talked up at an inflated $800k-$900k a year is because his tool of a dad is trying to hold Collingwood to ransom, and in the end screwing his son over IMO.

It's funny. How much money post-retirement would Cloke earn as a 1-club Collingwood player with (possibly) multiple premierships ? To throw that away for an extra $300k during his playing contract is simply crazy, and this is why Cloke won't be going anywhere. If he (or his dad) had half a brain they would take a lesser contract, keeping Collingwood as a club stronger, possibly snatching an extra Premiership they might not otherwise gain if they loose a quality player to make room for Clokes salary and earn him more post-career as a Collingwood great .........


Either way I am loving the saga. If anyone thinks it's not having a negative effect on their club then they are fooling themselves. I personally think it would be CRAZY to pay Cloke $5 mill over 5 years, but if it does happen then

1. It will STRENGTHEN our forwardline MASSIVELY. The crumbers will be brought into the game as CRUMBERS not marking targets (no more kick it to Betts at FF), he would free up Waite/Walker et al to play on lesser defenders and give our younger guys (who ever doesn't get forced out when we recruit him) more time to develop
2. It will WEAKEN Collingwood MASSIVELY. Don't fool yourself, he is probably one of their most important players. Their forward line is built around him (Look at their alternative in Dawes ATM, someone people on here were BEGGING Carlton to go after in the last trade period ) so if we got him then out chances of a Premiership in the next year or two would be GREATELY enhanced
3. If he stays at Collingwood then THEY would be paying him a MASSIVE contract, possibly forcing out some more of their depth players to say GWS or, um, Carlton .

Anyway I have rambled on a bit. To summerise I don't think he is worth $1 mill/year over 5 years, but it would probably snag up a premiership, weaken a major rival and screw over Collingwood. Either that or force them to pay too much for Cloke and weaken them by forcing them to loose a player or two (one of which we might be able to poach).


On a side note, it appears that Thornton/Russel/Bower are no longer in the clubs future plans (probably a risky call, but surely some would be playing more if they were). I wonder how much cap space we would have if we cut a couple, downgraded McLeans contract (what is close to minimal wage for a senior AFL player these days ? What is Ball on at Collingwood? 200k ? He owes us for the previous contract) and IF we loose Warnock to a trade ? (plus the expanded TPP from the last television rights package)

 

[Sharks On A Plane]

Some of you would talk down Lance Franklin if he was put up for trade... Do people actually watch non-Carlton games?

Seriously, Cloke is an out and out gun. He's only kicked over 50 goals in a season once? So what? He is a traditional CHF who spends a lot of time providing a target up the ground. He is an absolutely outstanding contested mark and his value to Collingwood's structure should never be underestimated.

We would be crazy not to pursue this trade, especially given the fact that prior to free agency, we would have had to sacrifice a top ten pick and a good player before we even got close to satisfying Collingwood.

 

[Silvagnis]

We would be crazy not to pursue this trade, especially given the fact that prior to free agency, we would have had to sacrifice a top ten pick and a good player before we even got close to satisfying Collingwood.

No need to trade for Cloke who is a restricted free agent.

Free agents

Restricted free agents can field offers from other clubs, but their club has the opportunity to keep them by matching the rival offer.

Free agents

Seriously, Cloke is an out and out gun. He's only kicked over 50 goals in a season once? So what? He is a traditional CHF who spends a lot of time providing a target up the ground. He is an absolutely outstanding contested mark and his value to Collingwood's structure should never be underestimated.

Is that why Cloke wears a glove?

Cloke makes Kernahan look like a dead eye dick in front of goal.

No more than 750 or 800 K for Cloke. A million p.a. should be reserved for your Judds, Abletts, Franklins, etc.

I'd rather have big Josh Kennedy who is a better kick for goal. And JK isn't a huge bogan.