Discussion 2012 List Management: De-Listings, Trades, Drafting & Free Agency

[TheLastEmperor]

Melbourne are said to be using their compo mid first rounder this draft and it's said to fall straight after ours. I guess that would mean the same for Geelong, pick 14 I guess cos they finished higher than Melbourne. If we lose Goddard would that mean Geelong and Melbourne's picks further slip down the order? I'm unsure about uncrontracted compo vs FA compo.

 

[Jazz71286]

Either way, Geelong got a mid 1st rounder and an end of 1st rounder. Isn't the mid 1st rounder the one they still have? It may fall just before or just after our 1st rounder.

Confusing much?

We have approx pick 15, with yours being a few places better (depending on free agency compos too be determined). Our compo pick is tied to our finishing position even if traded but cannot be used in this draft as we didn't activate it.

So we really only have one first round pick in this draft with the option of trading a compo to be used either in 2013 or 2014.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

Melbourne are said to be using their compo mid first rounder this draft and it's said to fall straight after ours. I guess that would mean the same for Geelong, pick 14 I guess cos they finished higher than Melbourne. If we lose Goddard would that mean Geelong and Melbourne's picks further slip down the order? I'm unsure about uncrontracted compo vs FA compo.

It doesn't work like that....from what i understand (hypothetically):

Gold Coast could either accept St Kilda's FA compo pick 13 for the 2012 Draft...or accept Geelong's compo pick to be used in the 2013 Draft at a position yet to be determined...(depending on where the Cats finish in 2013 - it would be 1 place after that)

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Gotcha. I didn't realise that in order for Geelong's compo pick to be used this year it must already have been activated.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

We have approx pick 15, with yours being a few places better (depending on free agency compos too be determined). Our compo pick is tied to our finishing position even if traded but cannot be used in this draft as we didn't activate it.

So we really only have one first round pick in this draft with the option of trading a compo to be used either in 2013 or 2014.

GC could well prefer to take the compo pick, as it will help them achieve the goal of reducing their list numbers.
After another season it may be clearer to them who will stay and who will go.
How long do they have to keep Cambell (spud) Brown for.

 

[adambrown]

i hope this years draft goes a little like this for the saints this year if goddard leaves
winmar and raph to port for pick 28
comp pick 13 and pick 28 to gold coast for caddy/hickey/weller, (that will give them 4or5 picks in top 30)
pick 12 plowman
pick 34 tanner smith
pick 53 hartigan

 

[Jazz71286]

GC could well prefer to take the compo pick, as it will help them achieve the goal of reducing their list numbers.
After another season it may be clearer to them who will stay and who will go.
How long do they have to keep Cambell (spud) Brown for.

Well, that's what I'm hoping. The compo allows them to keep a player such as Mav Weller etc for another year to see if they develop. However if you believe the latest, Caddy is all but secured to Collingwood. the most common trade agreements seem to involve Wellingham.

So GC essentially have the choice of three different scenarios each with their advantages and disadvantages:

Caddy to St. Kilda = first round pick (approx pick 13?)
Simple swap, clean and easy. Saints might be able to finagle Toy as well. The advantage to GC is the immediate use of a quality draft pick in what is said to be a strong draft.

Caddy to Geelong = compo pick
Once again, quick and painless. Directly addresses GC's list squeeze with a pick that could be as good as pick 5-7 (most likely pick 8-10, I hope that as low as it goes!)

Caddy to Collingwood = Wellingham + second round pick
Wellingham is young and hasnt hit his ceiling yet. The second round pick can be bundled with another player for a higher draft pick. Doesn't make their list any smaller, but if that's his preference he'll end up there.

 

[hayes]

Caddy can say what he wants , but in the end his team will be chasing the best result for them.
For example if we offer a first round draft pick, we can beat both Collingwood and Geelong.
In which case his team will say "do you want to stay or do you want to go to StKilda"?
The question is more, what do we want to pay for this guy?

You'd hope so. This game is in trouble if we have 20 year olds pulling strings rather than the team getting the best deal possible.

The Collingwood deal just makes it even harder for them to cut numbers. You think they'd be more interested in trading off two players and getting one back than the other way around.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

i hope this years draft goes a little like this for the saints this year if goddard leaves
winmar and raph to port for pick 28
comp pick 13 and pick 28 to gold coast for caddy/hickey/weller, (that will give them 4or5 picks in top 30)
pick 12 plowman
pick 34 tanner smith
pick 53 hartigan

Clarke is an unrestricted FA so Port could take him for nothing. We may look to move Winmar on however he is contracted and has little trade value. I suppose he could be used in a trade with WC or Freo seeing has he's from WA and we've been linked with a few Vic boys wanting to return home and get more opportunity.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Don't see two probable delistees fetching pick 28

 

[hayes]

i hope this years draft goes a little like this for the saints this year if goddard leaves
winmar and raph to port for pick 28
comp pick 13 and pick 28 to gold coast for caddy/hickey/weller, (that will give them 4or5 picks in top 30)
pick 12 plowman
pick 34 tanner smith
pick 53 hartigan

Port aren't going to trade pick 28 for two, how do I say this nicely.. non contributors.

 

[hayes]

No idea what this Nick Winmar "trade him" is all about. Seems we have faith in him and seem to think he'll develop and become a regular next year? I know Michael Nettlefold has talked him up abit surely we wouldn't have given him a 2 year deal if we thought he'll be no one. He was good in the VFL last year i thought. Wouldn't surprise me to see him show alot in NAB Cup and play Round 1 next season. Saying this because i highly doubt we'll trade him i don't expect us to anyway.

You didn't see much of his work this year did you? He did improve after being dropped to the Dev squad to make his last 3 or 4 games before the final decent, but before that was averaging something like 10 possessions a game. Was hoping he'd make it of course but I've almost lost all faith.

 

[saintsrfreak]

I have seen plenty of players stay on lists until about 4 years before they become regulars. (Re- my post about Winmar)

Most of those players at least show something in the VFL before becoming contributors though

 

[adambrown]

Don't see two probable delistees fetching pick 28

yeah I'm dreaming. Would fill a few holes in our list though. Port should get a comp pick for chaplin not sure what it would be maybe second round, thats why i was hoping for there second round bit more leverage to try and get caddy and hickey

 

[Sunshine Saint]

Well, that's what I'm hoping. The compo allows them to keep a player such as Mav Weller etc for another year to see if they develop. However if you believe the latest, Caddy is all but secured to Collingwood. the most common trade agreements seem to involve Wellingham.

So GC essentially have the choice of three different scenarios each with their advantages and disadvantages:

Caddy to St. Kilda = first round pick (approx pick 13?)
Simple swap, clean and easy. Saints might be able to finagle Toy as well. The advantage to GC is the immediate use of a quality draft pick in what is said to be a strong draft.

Caddy to Geelong = compo pick
Once again, quick and painless. Directly addresses GC's list squeeze with a pick that could be as good as pick 5-7 (most likely pick 8-10, I hope that as low as it goes!)

Caddy to Collingwood = Wellingham + second round pick
Wellingham is young and hasnt hit his ceiling yet. The second round pick can be bundled with another player for a higher draft pick. Doesn't make their list any smaller, but if that's his preference he'll end up there.

A very good post. Thanks and good to hear your thoughts

 

[hayes]

Don't get me wrong. I thought he was good almost all of last year and also thought he show'd abit in the 2012 NAB Cup series he had few injuries (I think it was Ankle injury?) earlier in the year aswell from memory. But sure improved after being dropped i just don't see us trading him the club seem to have faith in him giving him a 2 year deal.

That 2 year deal is what saved him. I have no doubt he would've been delisted if it weren't for that, but lucky for him he gets one last chance to prove something and hopefully he does.

 

[Jazz71286]

A very good post. Thanks and good to hear your thoughts

You're welcome

 

[hayes]

I don't think he's a forward at all but like most HB's could probably push up to a wing with his speed and ball use.

Might be worth trying to get him on a wing next year and see how he goes. Couldn't be any worse than how he's going at HB.

 

[goodie23]

Either way, Geelong got a mid 1st rounder and an end of 1st rounder. Isn't the mid 1st rounder the one they still have? It may fall just before or just after our 1st rounder.

Confusing much?

Don't think this question's actually been answered. Geelong got a mid-first rounder and a round one selection linked to their draft position (theirs, regardless of trades). They traded the mid-first to Gold Coast in 2010 for pick 15.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

Also isn't Nick Winmar also abit of a utility aswell? can play Midfield, Defense & Forward would be nice to see him develop and have him in the side!!

A utility like a Suzuki mighty boy maybe. At the moment he doesn't get enough of the ball to do anything, and he'd be miles behind Sippo.

 

[CHBench]

Don't think that'll work, Gold Coast are looking to clear spots, not fill them. Their list size has begun to shrink, they have to take at least three new draftees and they've got to find a spot for O'Meara, so that's seven players they have to delist/trade out.

Only reason players might come into the deal is if it's a three-way trade with Western Sydney so Gold Coast get a mini-draft pick.

While this is true, is there much difference between swapping Caddy for Pick 13 (i.e., a normal non compo pick), and swapping Caddy + Player X for 13 + Player Y? It's pretty much the same net gain. Yes they need to trim spots, but i can't see them throwing away Toy and others free of charge to anyone just to make room (eg. Caddy + Toy for 12). They'll still be wanting a good deal for unfulfilled potential. But I reckon GC would have no qualms sending some guys to the draft just to prove they won't be pushovers at the trade table in years to come. Obviously they won't take junk like Jones (sorry), but someone like Gilbert I reckon they'd be seriously interested in.

 

[SaintsSeptember]

While this is true, is there much difference between swapping Caddy for Pick 13 (i.e., a normal non compo pick), and swapping Caddy + Player X for 13 + Player Y? It's pretty much the same net gain. Yes they need to trim spots, but i can't see them throwing away Toy and others free of charge to anyone just to make room (eg. Caddy + Toy for 12). They'll still be wanting a good deal for unfulfilled potential. But I reckon GC would have no qualms sending some guys to the draft just to prove they won't be pushovers at the trade table in years to come. Obviously they won't take junk like Jones (sorry), but someone like Gilbert I reckon they'd be seriously interested in.

I just think the Geelong pick will appeal to them.
They need to shed players.
On here we still argue about whether the likes of Ledger, Cripps or Winmar are any good.
They won't know which players they should let go and which they should keep.
By keeping their extra first round pick until next year they can still pick 1,2,3 in the draft without having to shed any more than they need to.

 

[Saint Christopher]

Yeah may be worth a try. What position did he play in NAB Cup does anyone remember? thought he was very good in those games.

I saw him run and carry and kick a 50 metre goal three years ago - he was playing hff, and could burn people up and back, he seems to have lost confidence in his pace, injuries? Just annoys me that we could have had him later and taken Sam Reid at his pick.

 

[hayes]

If Winmar doesn't make it I think that means we only have two players still on our list from the 08 and 09 drafts. That has to be historically bad.

 

[Saint Christopher]

I honestly think that St Kilda might be better off without Goddard. Our compensation pick for Hickey/Toy and Caddy might be a done deal. Both are very promising players. For those Caddy doubters, he averaged 25 touches (11 contested) and 7 clearances a game in the Under 18 Championships. With another couple of pre-seaons under his belt, he can develop into a very nice player. Hickey would fill the back-up ruckman role very well, he has clean hands, good agility and endurance. Toy is a terrific kick and was once considered one of the top teenage talents. Gold Coast might see this deal as unfair, but they have to cut players from their list.

Brody Mihocek, anyone know what happened to this kid? All Australian CHB from memory at state level U/18... and opinions out west on Hutchings, who used to be on our list - improved his speed last year dramatically..