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- Thread starter forwardflanker
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I for one was certainly hoping for a distinct 'step up' in his ability to influence games this year but didn't see it.
Hoping Mick can drag the absolute best out of him and he can play a role along the lines of Pendlebury. He's has the skill set and I think that if Mick said you are a midfielder and you will play in the centre pushing forward we will see the best from him.
forwardflanker
Cancelled
- Thread starter
- #403
If Malthouse can't turn Gibbs into an A grade midifelder then I doubt anyone else could
Point proven. Finished 12th yet your year is a success because you beat Collingwood twice. Congrats.A bit like Pies supporters claiming Lynch's recruitment as a big win?
Sorry bud, Carlton showed they have the players to beat your lot twice last season. Getting Lynch and Young while losing Dawes and Wellers isn't going to change that much. And getting Mick is only going to make it harder.
Mick's done a great job so far. Zero changes at the trade table to a team that finished 12th. Good luck with that.
Err ...
Not sure what you think that has to do with my post.Quite distinct points one would think.
Yep! Not reaching for spuds like Dawes has surely impressed me. He, like most who think deeply about footy, knows why Carlton finished 12th and it's not list personnel. A good start IMO.
Your answer is simplistic, superficial and gives no consideration as to why we finished 12th.
Injuries were a significant reason and in hindsight the club should have gone to the youth well somewhat earlier in some cases (Tom Bell for example).
But for mine the third and most significant reason (depending on how much importance you place on injuries) was the team's mental softness, which at the very least produced inconsistent performances.
Assuming we don't get hit hard again with injuries to key players, if you don't think Mick can bring some 'mental hardness' to the way the players approach the game I reckon you'd be in the minority.
And I wouldn't bother mentioning a lack of talent either because quite obviously there's enough talent there to put a proven finals contender in Collingwood away (twice).
Make no mistake, Collingwood and West Coast both had a greater injury toll than Carlton. The fact that you guys imploded as a result of yours indicates a glaring issue with the depth and quality of your list, and issue that had in no way even attempted to have been rectified so far in the off season.
A new coach is going to wave a magic wand and bring some mental toughness to a playing group overnight? A certain culture is ingrained into a club and indeed a playing group when they go through 5 or 6 consecutive years either not expecting to win or not necessarily wanting to win - this will take a generation to recover from. An ageing, one-dimensional coach will not resolve this during an off-season.
Thinking that everything is ok because you beat Collingwood twice is like the professional golfer facing the press after shooting a 74 for the 40th consecutive round but saying there is nothing wrong with their game because they were able to hole two 40 foot putts. Are you forgetting that you also lost to a Gold Coast team with 10 of their best 15 players on the sidelines? Not to mention Port Adelaide.
There is only one word for it - deluded.
The reason you finished 12th in 2012 is the same reason you have won only one final in 10 years - you are just no good.
Doss
Ass
- Aug 1, 2011
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Carlton finished 10th in 2012, not 12th.
Minor point I know, but I've seen both Carlton and non-Carlton posters in this thread referring to their 12th position quite a few times, and the pedant in me couldn't let it slide any longer.
Now, carry on.
Minor point I know, but I've seen both Carlton and non-Carlton posters in this thread referring to their 12th position quite a few times, and the pedant in me couldn't let it slide any longer.
Now, carry on.
- Banned
- #410
Yawn.
Recent history is easier to change than having 50 years of choking and being second best ingrained into your club's DNA.
Is it really? So a bloke running around playing for Collingwood in 1966 who was beaten by a solitary point in a Grand Final has more input to a match in 2013 than the likes of Betts, Carazzo, Gibbs, Hampson, Jamison, Murphy, Scotland, Simpson, Waite and Walker who ran around in that famous round 22 match in 2007 labelled the 'Kreuzer Cup'?
Change your user name to Fudge.
Make no mistake Collingwood and West Coast injuries were no where near as debilitating. Carlton had Long term injuries to key players across all areas of the ground at the same time.
Waite, Murphy, Carrazzo, Laidler, Henderson, Hampson, Judd while not an injury was significant, Jamison to name a few.
West Coast were only really missing key players from their forward line in Kennedy and Lecras for any length of time and had adequate cover for 2 guys. Their midfield and defence barely suffered a hiccup.
And apart from Ball which numerous players from Collingwood across the forward line, midfield and defence were out of the game for a number of matches at the same time?
Bitter much. If the players don't get on board and do it Mick's way they will get found out pretty quickly and they wont be playing. You carry on like every player at the club is mentally soft.
Seriously? a generation to recover from? talk about melodramatic.
Don't make shit up, I haven't said anywhere that everything is ok.
If you bothered to do any research on my posting history you'd see I've consistently acknowledged mental softness and lack of development of our second tier and by the way, lack of development doesn't equate to 'the players aren't any good'.
I used our two wins over you this year as an example that there is talent at Carlton, or are you saying your team is just no good against us?
Of course you're not, you're just trying to be a smart arse.
See, that's the thing about having a balanced team with plenty of depth - it's easy to overlook the number of injuries you've had. Try this for a list:
Luke Ball - top 5 in our best and fairest in each of his first two years at the club. Certainly not our best midfielder but arguably our most important;
Andrew Krakouer - ACL. A 35 goal forward in 2011.
Brent Macaffer - ACL. Best 22 in our premiership side in 2010. Very important mid-sized forward.
Ben Johnson - Shoulder. Misses 17 games. Was in near career best form before this injury. Gives plenty of run off of half back.
Keeffe - ACL. Was our most important player until he went down, possibly leading our best and fairest playing a lone hand in defence.
Tarrant - played 12 games.
Didak - 11 games. Was never quite right.
Swan, Pendlebury, Thomas - all missed four or more games each. Neither Pendlebury nor Thomas were right for the second half of the season.
Maxwell, Reid, Jolly, Brown - all missed minimum 5 games.
That's 14 of our first 22 players who missed 4 or more games, 7 of whom missed more than 10.
Yet we still managed to finish top 4.
So for a team that is supposed to be smack bang in its premiership window, you are happy with the solitary finals win? Carlton supporters have been talking up their flag prospects since 2010, and continue to under deliver, having the odd good win here and there yet never able to string together more than 2 or 3 consecutive wins against average or better than average opposition.
The win in round three was expected - we had half a team on the park. The second win was unexpected, and a good win against the odds. Good teams have wins like this regularly - Carlton has one of these each year. You may recall we had won our previous 5 against you?
That's the thing about Carlton supporters - if you don't rate them you're either trolling or trying to be a smart ar$e. No, I just honestly do not rate you (along with many other neutral supporters on this forum), and you have gone further backwards over the trade/free agency period. It's just that we're not looking at your list through rose coloured glasses. One finals win in the four years since you announced 'you were coming' speaks for itself.
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Don't know what all the fuss is about.
Our list is so good we can give away top 20 picks (Russell & Bower for those not sure) for nil.
If that is not enough to get everyone comfortable with where we are at, just think of our trading of Jacobs & Grigg to understand how happy we are with our list!
It's all good!
Our list is so good we can give away top 20 picks (Russell & Bower for those not sure) for nil.
If that is not enough to get everyone comfortable with where we are at, just think of our trading of Jacobs & Grigg to understand how happy we are with our list!
It's all good!
forwardflanker
Cancelled
- Thread starter
- #415
See this where culture comes into it. The Carlton FC has spent all 2012 looking for others to blame instead of getting on which the job and making do with what they've got. You didn't see Collingwood or West Coast sitting still when their sides were torn apart with injury. And make no mistake WC and the Pies were both affected by injury worse than Carlton but a strong winning culture ingrained in those clubs enabled them to keep on winning and get on with the job. I can't think of many better examples than this to contrast a winning and losing culture tbh.
Watching the Carlton vs Collingwood replay from Round 3, how overrated this team was after just round 3. Bruce "There definitely premiership favourites now"...Gee their midfield just runs "so deep". "Hamson is the most improved player in the comp". Typical early outrageous calls and collingwood made a preliminary final and carlton finished 12th hahahah
Nope. If this is what you think, you just don't know your footy!
Yeah. Because key mids were injured, Hampson was injured. What else? You'd think a Swans would appreciate what continuity and a good run with injury does for a side. You bloke had 18 players play all but 3 games together.
Honestly, the cheek of you
forwardflanker
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- #420
Stop trying to change the subject. You need to answer why Collingwood and WC finished 4th and 5th respectively and both went deep in September whilst Carlton couldn't even beat the GC. Give us some facts we can work with. If not stop posting and cluttering up a good thread. Ty.Yeah. Because key mids were injured, Hampson was injured. What else? You'd think a Swans would appreciate what continuity and a good run with injury does for a side. You bloke had 18 players play all but 3 games together.
Honestly, the cheek of you
To be pedantic, Monkey King is technically correct on this one.
Carlton had fewer injuries than West Coast and Collingwood, but were more greatly affected because they do not bat anywhere near as deep, have anywhere near as much quality, nor the winning culture as forwardflanker so rightly puts it, as do the Pies and the Eagles.
You just made the mistake
Carlton's injury was significantly less than both WC and Collingwood. This was well documented. Carlton are not a top four side - never were.
Fudge, you just embarrass yourself with every single post. Seriously, 99.5% of your posts on BF are anti-Carlton.
Why the obsession?? Are the 2 beltings from this year still giving you so much angst?? Are you bitter that your premiership winning coach is now with us? Just get over it mate. I am sure some counseling would help.
Kreuz Control
Team Captain
West Coast
West Coast and Adelaide both had disappointing years when not making the top 8, they both made minimal changes and the next year made top 4, one with a new coach who must have "waived a magic wand"
Adelaide finished 14th in 2011 and 10th in 2010
West Coast 16th in 2010 and 11th in 2009
Carlton finished 5th 2011 before having a really bad 2012 (10th, ouch), so that says we’ve had one really bad year in 2012 following steady improvement in the years prior (something the above examples did not). So obviously we think we have the cattle to challenge and have given a new coach 12 months to see for himself, what he can get out of them instead of making rushed decisions on cutting players that he hasn’t had the chance to work with and decide if they belong on the list.
Like many posters have tried to point out to you, we had a terrible year for injuries (especially to key players) and although you dismiss it by saying West Coast and Collingwood had more injuries, we both really know that that isn’t true; but even with that aside, our decision is to show faith in what we have; now you don’t have to agree, but that’s what we have chosen to do because we have deemed the majority of players available over the last few weeks as either not worth it, too expensive, or couldn’t get it done
Now you can huff and puff until you’re blue in the face, and try and convince us as to why you’re right, but we will patiently wait until next year before we bow down to you and thank you for your articulate assessment on our club.
West Coast and Adelaide both had disappointing years when not making the top 8, they both made minimal changes and the next year made top 4, one with a new coach who must have "waived a magic wand"
Adelaide finished 14th in 2011 and 10th in 2010
West Coast 16th in 2010 and 11th in 2009
Carlton finished 5th 2011 before having a really bad 2012 (10th, ouch), so that says we’ve had one really bad year in 2012 following steady improvement in the years prior (something the above examples did not). So obviously we think we have the cattle to challenge and have given a new coach 12 months to see for himself, what he can get out of them instead of making rushed decisions on cutting players that he hasn’t had the chance to work with and decide if they belong on the list.
Like many posters have tried to point out to you, we had a terrible year for injuries (especially to key players) and although you dismiss it by saying West Coast and Collingwood had more injuries, we both really know that that isn’t true; but even with that aside, our decision is to show faith in what we have; now you don’t have to agree, but that’s what we have chosen to do because we have deemed the majority of players available over the last few weeks as either not worth it, too expensive, or couldn’t get it done
Now you can huff and puff until you’re blue in the face, and try and convince us as to why you’re right, but we will patiently wait until next year before we bow down to you and thank you for your articulate assessment on our club.
Yes, I support a team that has played in 7 of the past 11 preliminary Finals, 4 of the past 11 Grand Finals, and only getting stronger.
But I secretly would prefer to barrack for Carlton.
If you are so familiar with my posting history, you'll see that I have been very consistent and extremely accurate with my assessment of them. I'm just mystfied that if I can see it (and many others on this forum), why can't the powers that be at the Carlton Football Club?
Quite astounding really.
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