Cloke vs J.Riewoldt

[jjsmitty8]

I have this same argument with every Richmond supporter I know.

I would take Trav Cloke ahead of Jack Riewoldt every day of the week. Not saying Jack isn't any good, but JRoo is in my top 5 for most over rated players in the league.

Trav is just a bigger, stronger version of Jack. I know he can have his woeful days in front of goal, but even the 'great' Lance Franklin has had dogged days in front of this sticks.

I could talk all day about who I think is the better forward and why, but i'll put it to the BF family.

 

[juss]

I have this same argument with every Richmond supporter I know.

I would take Trav Cloke ahead of Jack Riewoldt every day of the week. Not saying Jack isn't any good, but JRoo is in my top 5 for most over rated players in the league.

Trav is just a bigger, stronger version of Jack. I know he can have his woeful days in front of goal, but even the 'great' Lance Franklin has had dogged days in front of this sticks.

I could talk all day about who I think is the better forward and why, but i'll put it to the BF family.

I won't really argue that JR is the better player, because I agree Cloke is overall better, particularly on what they've achieved in their careers so far. I'd much rather Jack kick for goal though, and he's better at ground level and creates goals for his teammates.

I do however have a problem with the bolded part, opposition supporters seem to hate JR. They call him a sook, they call him petulant, they say he had one good year. They don't seem to rate him at all, to the point where I reckon he is now underrated by opposition supporters.

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

Cloke is unmovable. That's his biggest asset.

If you kick it to him, and give him the space to move to the drop of the ball, he's more chance than anyone else of marking it.

 

[Robbo92]

Coleman Medal tally please...

 

[lmach]

Coleman Medal tally please...

Cloke 68
Riewoldt 58

 

[Bobby_]

Cloke isn't mentally fragile like Jack and is a longer kick, stronger, and is actually underrated in terms of his endurance.
He seems like a big lump of a man but he would be fitter than Jack as his output late in games is still as consistent as what it is at the beginning of a game.
Just not an accurate shot for goal and Jack has him covered in that area of the game as it's 54% v 63%

 

[Robbo92]

Cloke 68
Riewoldt 58

I meant tally of Coleman Medals. Please revise.

 

[Barry_Badrinath]

The poll says "who is the better full forward". So based off that I'd say Jack. Trav is likely to send one OOTF from 15m out straight in front.

Having said that Cloke is a better CHF and probably player too.

 

[Jade]

Ugh...... the doucheness of these two....

Riewoldt; only because I reckon he could be 'cured' of his ailment....

Would take Cameron, Patton, Boyd, Daniher, Hogan, Franklin, Roughead, Pavlich, N. Riewoldt, Kennedy, Darling, Petrie, Walker ahead of either - for a multitude of reasons.

 

[juss]

Ugh...... the doucheness of these two....

Riewoldt; only because I reckon he could be 'cured' of his ailment....

Would take Cameron, Patton, Boyd, Daniher, Hogan, Franklin, Roughead, Pavlich, N. Riewoldt, Kennedy, Darling, Petrie, Walker ahead of either - for a multitude of reasons.

You'd rather get 1 or 2 seasons from these guys than other 5-10 from JR or Cloke? Interesting list management, I'd have thought you'd think longer term.

 

[thetradesman]

Think the 2 colemans speak for themselves.

 

[razaxp360]

I think Collingwood rely more on Cloke then we do on Riewoldt, well right now at least. Based on that Cloke it is!

 

[NUFC Tiger]

2 ripper posts from our board about Jack I read today cheers Barry_Badrinath & AJ Green

Jack Riewoldt. He constantly gets bashed by everyone outside the club. Apperantly he:

-is selfish (despite leading the AFL in goal assists this year)
-is a downhill skier (despite kicking more goals against top 4 sides than any other group of teams)
-kicks all his goals in junktime
-doesn't tackle
-is a sook
-is a bad influence on the team and not a leader

He gets seriously underated simply because everyone else thinks he is a flog. He has been robbed of 2-3 All Australian selections to "one year wonders" who had similar quality seasons to what he did simply because they liked the other guy better.

In 2011 everyone thought Petrie, Kennedy and Cloke were better than him. Next season those 3 have been forgotten and it's Hawkins, Walker and Pavlich that are clearly superior. Fast forward another year and those guys have been forgotten and it's Roughead and Cameron that are clearly better.

He has been the most consistent forward that isn't named Buddy in the AFL over the last 4 years, yet he continually gets talked down because Tommahawk has "more presence" or because Taylor Walker is "a more natural footballer".

Jack Riewoldt is the most underrated player in the league. The AA selectors are hypocrites for not even giving him a nomination in the 40 man squad. 2012 he wins the Coleman, but was too selfish with not enough assists. Then 2013, led the league for assists going into the last round, but apparently didn't kick enough goals. He has clearly shown he is a complete forward with many strings to his bow, but continually cops unwarranted criticism.

I would go Jack every day of the week (though I'd love to have Cloke as well tbh). Jack is probably on a bit less coin than Cloke and I would argue his 'value' and 'output' are greater than that of Cloke. Jack has consistently been one of the best KPFs in the league since 2010 despite injuries and this year, while his scores were down a fraction, his goal assists were huge (3rd best in the comp and by far the best of any KPF).

Unfortunately for Jack, I think a lot of people get blinkers on and maybe see his 'bad moments' - he can definitely improve in that regard but I don't think he is as bad as some paint him out to be. The fact he signed on to stay a tiger for less coin than he could have made on the market speaks volumes of his supposed 'selfish' personality. (Not a pot shot at Cloke specifically but Jack never held the club to ransom like so many other players in the game today - Martin included).

That being said, if I was going to play a 1 off game (like a final), I would probably opt towards Cloke as I think he has more potential to be a huge/damaging factor. I would argue Cloke's best is better than Riewoldt's but Riewoldt is a more consistent, rounded player. At the end of the day, both clubs are very fortunate to have either on it's list.

 

[Jade's]

Ok there's so much wrong with what you've just said. But you wouldn't take PAVLICH over J. Riewoldt???

Pavs what 8 years older with maybe one season left

 

[timtamWB]

Pavs what 8 years older with maybe one season left

Then you wouldn't take Cameron over him? Or Roughead (only 1 year older and a much better player)? You could justify the rest if you wanted to I guess, but not those 2.

 

[Jade's]

Then you wouldn't take Cameron over him? Or Roughead (only 1 year older and a much better player)? You could justify the rest if you wanted to I guess, but not those 2.

Rough is two older and jacks done more than rough has.

Cameron I would swap for jack

 

[Jade's]

You think Roughead, Kennedy or Pavlich over Riewoldt is a LOL? Mmkay. Cloke is a big game player that for all his ... Collingwoodness isn't a lazy, sulking drama queen. Pavlich and Brown will forever have more respect than a couple of Colemans earn, I've never seen them go all out for cheapy goals in a comfortable win or drop their heads when their team isn't getting it done.

Did you say that when they were jacks age? Wait til the career is over and jack will have a very good resume. Been exceptionally good and doesn't get nearly enough kudos on here. But what can you do floggos gonna flog

 

[timtamWB]

Rough is two older and jacks done more than rough has.

Cameron I would swap for jack

You bolded Cameron which states that you wouldn't take him over it. So now you're just backflipping.

As far as Roughead goes, the only thing where Jack has done more than him is that he has two coleman medals as opposed to Rough's one. But Jack also hasn't been playing in the same team as the best forward over the past 5 years and still performed, and Roughead can play literally all over the ground. There is no comparison.

 

[Jade's]

You bolded Cameron which states that you wouldn't take him over it. So now you're just backflipping.

As far as Roughead goes, the only thing where Jack has done more than him is that he has two coleman medals as opposed to Rough's one. But Jack also hasn't been playing in the same team as the best forward over the past 5 years and still performed, and Roughead can play literally all over the ground. There is no comparison.

Jacks been much more consistent than roughhead who has had two good seasons and a fair few mediocre ones. He has also been a forward in two sides that one the flag whereas jack was a gun even when surrounded by turkey's.

I'm not surprised a dogs fan has no idea about good key position forwards

 

[timtamWB]

Jacks been much more consistent than roughhead who has had two good seasons and a fair few mediocre ones. He has also been a forward in two sides that one the flag whereas jack was a gun even when surrounded by turkey's.

I'm not surprised a dogs fan has no idea about good key position forwards

Roughead's mediocre seasons were early in his career, and when he was injured. Similar to Jack. And the fact that Roughead has constantly performed when surrounded by other great forwards, and also having been shifted back, into the midfield, and into the ruck, as opposed to Jack who has just been the sole focus of the forward line for a while, puts him ahead easily.

Either way, this poll is about Jack vs Cloke. I reckon Cloke is better, a man mountain and a contested marking freak, can't kick for shit, but I reckon he's better than Jack. It's close though.

 

[Doss]

Play the argument, not the man.

Next person who does otherwise will be getting an infraction.

 

[HolyWars]

Rough is two older and jacks done more than rough has.

Well this statement is just plain wrong.

Anyhow...I would take Cloke over Riewoldt, but only just.

 

[Some Idiot]

As a pure full forward I would take Riewoldt, as he is a more natural goal scorer.

 

[scaryness]

Cloke easily for me.

 

[tigerT]

Pros: Cloke is a beast, best contested mark in the game maybe ever, can play up the ground too
Cons: Unreliable kick at goal, ultimately that's what its all about

Pros: Jack is Smart, creative, accurate and apart from last season has a rep for nailing clutch goals
Cons: lazy, petulant and doesn't get anywhere near the maximum out of himself PHYSICALLY. Very easy to shutdown bc he doesn't move

Cloke