Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[TheHoneyBadger]

But... I said we're the opposite... which is a good thing

You weren't comparing anything about us to Essendon, just saying we're the anti-Essendon
But why did it need to be said? Where did this Essendon talk come from?

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

If i was the players i would hate our supports, imagine how Macca would feel towards us.

There needs to be a Macca death stare meme for use every time someone criticises one of his boys

 

[LukasTheGreat]

There needs to be a Macca death stare meme for use every time someone criticises one of his boys

?

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

?

Yes!
This needs to be a thing, not just on the Doggies board

 

[Tommycash]

You're entitled to your opinion, you're just not entitled to get upset when people tell you why you're wrong.

Well then should we get on the back of the other fellows who are awfully upset by his opinion in the first place?

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Well then should we get on the back of the other fellows who are awfully upset by his opinion in the first place?

Another good point.
No, we shouldn't, and further to that, we shouldn't get upset at someone else's opinion at all.
But just as he's entitled to his opinion, we're entitled to tell him he's wrong without doing so in a derogatory manner.
I'm comfortable to post my opinion and cop abuse if I'm in the minority or if it's warranted, I really don't care. If people want to tell me I'm wrong, that's even better, as long as they tell me why.

 

[Tommycash]

Another good point.
No, we shouldn't, and further to that, we shouldn't get upset at someone else's opinion at all.
But just as he's entitled to his opinion, we're entitled to tell him he's wrong without doing so in a derogatory manner.
I'm comfortable to post my opinion and cop abuse if I'm in the minority or if it's warranted, I really don't care. If people want to tell me I'm wrong, that's even better, as long as they tell me why.

I know how that feels. Seems near every opinion I have is wrong . I guess it's a bit harder when you're in the minority, so perhaps we've got to be a bit more accommodating. As a board this is, you're certainly not a problem, I'm just quoting for effect hahaha.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I know how that feels. Seems near every opinion I have is wrong . I guess it's a bit harder when you're in the minority, so perhaps we've got to be a bit more accommodating. As a board this is, you're certainly not a problem, I'm just quoting for effect hahaha.

Haha, I understood the context you were putting it in.
Everyone has their opinion, they just have to make sure it's got some sort of backing if it's provocative before posting it online, if they don't want to cop anything for it.
I've been abused regularly for standing up for Jones or back in the day, Dylan Addison, previously for insisting McCartney was the right man at the helm (well well well), and probably unfairly had a go at a few people for some things as well.
The internet

 

[Cudi]

I actually thought I was in the minority for thinking Jones has shown enough signs to suggest he has a bright future. He is in hardly any Best 2014 teams and cops a load of heat at games by our supporters. Anyway for a 22 yr old tall forward I think he is coming a long fine. Can't think of too many others the same age or younger going around who have shown much more (besides Cameron, he is a freak of nature). He stacks up well against most of them.

 

[Tommycash]

I actually thought I was in the minority for thinking Jones has shown enough signs to suggest he has a bright future. He is in hardly any Best 2014 teams and cops a load of heat at games by our supporters. Anyway for a 22 yr old tall forward I think he is coming a long fine. Can't think of any others the same age or younger going around who have shown much more (besides Cameron, he is a freak of nature).

Perhaps we are then? It's hard to tell. I have to agree with you though. I have pretty high hopes for Jones, he's coming along nicely as far as I'm concerned.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I actually thought I was in the minority for thinking Jones has shown enough signs to suggest he has a bright future. He is in hardly any Best 2014 teams and cops a load of heat at games by our supporters. Anyway for a 22 yr old tall forward I think he is coming a long fine. Can't think of any others the same age or younger going around who have shown much more (besides Cameron, he is a freak of nature).

I agree. His stats don't reflect the impact he has at this point. He crashes packs more often than not taking the mark and otherwise brings it to ground well, isn't outbodied very often, and for all the rubbish about his goal-kicking he kicked 22.15 this year, seven goals more than he kicked in 2011 having played one less game.
He's a player capable of kicking 50 goals in 2014, a player likely to kick 30 goals, and one who could just as easily kick 10. He's steadily getting there and deserves time - we're not getting Fevola, Buddy, Kennedy, Tippett, whoever.
It was really disappointing to see two Doggies supporters hurling abuse at each other last year, one in defense of Jones. Poor form. We're entitled to our opinions but should unite behind young blokes who keep their nose clean, train hard and give their all for the club, as he clearly has and is.

 

[Cudi]

I agree. His stats don't reflect the impact he has at this point. He crashes packs more often than not taking the mark and otherwise brings it to ground well, isn't outbodied very often, and for all the rubbish about his goal-kicking he kicked 22.15 this year, seven goals more than he kicked in 2011 having played one less game.
He's a player capable of kicking 50 goals in 2014, a player likely to kick 30 goals, and one who could just as easily kick 10. He's steadily getting there and deserves time - we're not getting Fevola, Buddy, Kennedy, Tippett, whoever.
It was really disappointing to see two Doggies supporters hurling abuse at each other last year, one in defense of Jones. Poor form. We're entitled to our opinions but should unite behind young blokes who keep their nose clean, train hard and give their all for the club, as he clearly has and is.

Agree. Maybe at the end of the day is just supporters having different expectations from players. For a kid playing in a position that takes time with close to no support I think he is doing just fine. He definitely showed improvement from 2012 and with an experience body like Crameri down there will continue to improve in 2014. The one call I just don't get is this no forward instinct. He looks like a natural forward and gets to a lot of contests and takes a lot of marks. Its his fitness and confidence that lets him down.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Agree. Maybe at the end of the day is just supporters having different expectations from players. For a kid playing in a position that takes time with close to no support I think he is doing just fine. He definitely showed improvement from 2012 and with an experience body like Crameri down there will continue to improve in 2014. The one call I just don't get is this no forward instinct. He looks like a natural forward and gets to a lot of contests and takes a lot of marks. Its his fitness and confidence that lets him down.

Again, I agree.
How can they say he has no forward instincts? He typically meets the ball upon forward 50 entry and is even better when the set-up collapses, often putting himself in positions to receive a handball out of the congestion, making a rebound-saving tackle or reading the opposition's play and running to where he could cut it off, intercepting a pass or making a tackle.
Forward instincts are natural - game sense at an elite level is taught. I'd like to see him work hard on building his engine and run his man around like Riewoldt, and when he's 30-40 out, trust his action and really kick through the ball, don't give it a chance to fade away or be punched through.

 

[Mr. Walker]

I know how that feels. Seems near every opinion I have is wrong

Except this one.

 

[Fossie 32]

Give Pearce a chance.

May not be a McCartney favourite

 

[Flash86]

Was talking to a mate the other day who doesn't rate Jones at all, but really rates Grant. He is a bulldogs supporter aswell.
I rate Jones highly. I think he has improved, especially in his goal kicking. Wouldn't say he is the greatest kick at goal but is starting to be more accurate. Probably just a confidence thing.
Anyways, my mate and I thought about it a bit, and would Campbell and CHF and Jones at FF work better than the other way around?
People think Jones would be better closer to goal as his main strengths are marking, but then others thing that he is CHF or bust as he has all the attributes to be a good CHF.
Campbell at CHF works for me due to the fact that he can kick 60 meter goals. He is very accurate, and can take a mark. Campbell still pinch hits in the ruck.

Jones will be left one out in the goal square to take a good mark and not have to worry about being as accurate in front of goal if he is right in the goal square or even 30 meters out.

So a ideal forward line looking something like this:
FF: Dahl, Jones, Dickson
CHF: Crameri, Campbell, Grant

Plus throw in Hunter, Gia, Stringer, Bontempeli all running through the forward line

 

[TBOW]

Just need directions to the forum that is for opinions then, if this is not that place.

The problem is not your opinion, I'm always happy to read a different opinion to mine.

It's the gun or spud mentality.

I think some people need to give some more love to the mid tier players. Especially ones that are still developing.

 

[Nath09]

The problem is not your opinion, I'm always happy to read a different opinion to mine.

It's the gun or spud mentality.

I think some people need to give some more love to the mid tier players. Especially ones that are still developing.

Otherwise know as the spudgun mentality:

 

[Tommycash]

So a ideal forward line looking something like this:
FF: Dahl, Jones, Dickson
CHF: Crameri, Campbell, Grant

Plus throw in Hunter, Gia, Stringer, Bontempeli all running through the forward line

My first thought was that it was too packed with talls, but on closer examination that could work. I personally see Campbell and Jones swapping, or perhaps Campbell and Jones playing closer to goal and Crameri playing the traditional CHF role.

 

[Zgope1]

I think it's gotten to the point with Jones that we just have to wait and see. He did enough this year with goals and CMs to deserve another pre season and more game time- although another year into Stringer and Campbell coming along is the exact spot pressure we needed

 

[Zgope1]

I think it's gotten to the point with Jones that we just have to wait and see. He did enough this year with goals and CMs to deserve another pre season and more game time- although another year into Stringer and Campbell coming along is the exact spot pressure we needed

 

[King Harold]

For there to be mid-tier players, there have to be some players who are below this level. Jones is definitely one of those players.

Your objection is actually to use of "spud". I am not advocating that every second player is a spud. Just Jones.

For me Spud in the football context means totally useless. Not sure how you put a young kid like Jones , playing the hardest position on the ground in that category.
Think he has a couple more covered thats on our list.

 

[King Harold]

My first thought was that it was too packed with talls, but on closer examination that could work. I personally see Campbell and Jones swapping, or perhaps Campbell and Jones playing closer to goal and Crameri playing the traditional CHF role.

Just remember Campbell is a ruckman, history tells you they almost will never make a CHF.
Not athletic enough for mine in this modern game of having to defend up the ground.

 

[Tommycash]

Just remember Campbell is a ruckman, history tells you they almost will never make a CHF.
Not athletic enough for mine in this modern game of having to defend up the ground.

Yeah, that's why I wanted to swap him out of CHF. It's got to be Crameri or Jones in that role. The OP had Campbell at CHF, not I.

 

[Butane]

Just remember Campbell is a ruckman, history tells you they almost will never make a CHF.
Not athletic enough for mine in this modern game of having to defend up the ground.

Agreed. Campbell showed some nice signs at the end of the year that he could rest there but he's just not a forward. They actually tried Campbel up forward earlier in the year and it failed miserably. So that plan went on the back burner for the rest of the year.

It's tough with Minson and Campbell both in the team but he's such a talented prospect that we need to get him to pinch hit up forward. This wouldn't be so much of an issue if there wasn't a sub rule.

Also begs the question on Cordy's future who I also don't see as a forward but talented enough to hold on to.

Was also listening to a Sydney official(recruiter?) on SEN say the reason they drafted Aliir Aliir was because he's a huge mobile defender and the way the game is going with taller and taller forwards they thought they might need this against GWS in a few years. We can debate if Aliir Aliir will ever make it but you can't debate the forward thinking of Sydney. Not saying we don't do this or any other club for that matter but it's something we wouldn't discuss here when drafting.