Official Club Stuff 2013 Club Reporting Season - ALL CLUBS NOW COMPLETE

[TheFVK]

What effect has the SANFL had, to hinder the crows off-field? Any?

Plenty. In simple terms owning their license AND the stadium they play at means the SANFL has long been able to secure whatever financial terms they've wished to prop up their unsustainable local competition, highlighted by the incapacitating stadium deal.

Of course the Crows' current administration has done nothing to improve this situation, refer to the 100+ page thread on their board "Trigg has to go". To top it all off their saving grace will probably be Adelaide Oval, which funnily enough they were dragged kicking and screaming to.

From a (clearly subjective) p.o.v. the Crows should also count themselves lucky they have Koch and Keith Thomas negotiating the new terms of the stadium with them as based on history Trigg and Chapman would have rolled over in a heartbeat to whatever the SANFL demanded.

Happily however there are three new off-field components which should see both clubs' performance improved markedly.

• New stadium deal (still being negotiated)
• New Reserves Structure
• Adelaide Oval

While I can't see either club competing long term with the $$ and support base which the WA clubs clubs have at their disposal it should certainly see a huge uplift in our off-field situations. Still a heap of work to do.

 

[Papa G]

hmm fyi

With Gaming Revenue, do you know what the actual amount is profit? Doesn't the Sate Govt take something like 80%?

 

[brisbane13]

Nah, Hawthorn have about $10m in cash. $The 26m figure is their net assets. They also have over $20 million in debt, including payables.

West Coast are in a whole different universe financially.

yeah hawthorn has a lot of debt, but gain alot of assistance from the Tasmanian government to play games over there,
that figure i read about the WCE i nearly fell off my chair, all the talk is about collingwood, Essendon & hawthorn about being the wealthy clubs,
WCE are in a whole totaly diffferent league, but i guess stadium deals & the corporate, hospitality boxes is where they have the huge advantage over the vic clubs

 

[theflea]

With Gaming Revenue, do you know what the actual amount is profit? Doesn't the Sate Govt take something like 80%?

I don't think its 80%. That would make it impossible for the owners to justify an investment. However I don't know what the figure is.

 

[The_Wookie]

With Gaming Revenue, do you know what the actual amount is profit? Doesn't the Sate Govt take something like 80%?

In Victoria:

The Herald Sun has been told that in some cases the tax rate per poker machine in a pub will jump from 50.83 per cent to 55.03 per cent, while the club rate will go from 42.5 per cent to 44.7 per cent.

ref: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vi...-as-taxes-rise/story-fni0fit3-122678247914611

In Queensland: (from 2012)

The Government gets up to $100,000 for each hotel poker machine "authority" it sells, while earnings attract tax rates of up to 55 per cent. Clubs pay up to 35 per cent while taxes on casino pokies - which hit $315 million in the 2010-11 financial year - can be as high as 30 per cent.

ref: http://www.couriermail.com.au/archive/money/rush-to-add-extra-pokies/story-fn3hskur-1226419418743

 

[Oneiros]

To the above figures it must also be remembered you have to pay costs for the facilities that house them, the (prodigious) power bills, the occasional payout, etc.

 

[The_Wookie]

To the above figures it must also be remembered you have to pay costs for the facilities that house them, the (prodigious) power bills, the occasional payout, etc.

From the groups who list revenue and expenses for gaming and venues

 

[Oneiros]

On the one hand, in footy terms, when you talk about a million here, a million there, pretty soon you're talking about real money.

On the other hand, the "profits" that are able to be redirected into football purposes are not huge. None of them would cover the salary cap, for instance, and only one even comes close.

 

[Papa G]

But it does make a difference to things like football dept spend. That $6 mill is the difference between Collingwood's footy dept and the lowest spender.

Any rate it just once again highlights to me what a financial juggernaugt the West Coast Eagles are. No pokies revenue, no AFL House led over promotion, large kickbacks to the WAFC and they just continue to pile up the cash.

 

[TheFVK]

On the one hand, in footy terms, when you talk about a million here, a million there, pretty soon you're talking about real money.

On the other hand, the "profits" that are able to be redirected into football purposes are not huge. None of them would cover the salary cap, for instance, and only one even comes close.

You kidding? Every single one of those profits is massive in football department terms and as Papa G says the difference between a Western Bulldogs football department and a Collingwood football department spend.

But with the rivers of gold you West Coast lot have at your disposal I guess you're forgiven for being desensitized

 

[Rob]

yeah hawthorn has a lot of debt, but gain alot of assistance from the Tasmanian government to play games over there,
that figure i read about the WCE i nearly fell off my chair, all the talk is about collingwood, Essendon & hawthorn about being the wealthy clubs,
WCE are in a whole totaly diffferent league, but i guess stadium deals & the corporate, hospitality boxes is where they have the huge advantage over the vic clubs

You left off massive supporter base.

It's funny how so many people ignore that.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

With Gaming Revenue, do you know what the actual amount is profit? Doesn't the Sate Govt take something like 80%?

No, the guaranteed return to punters is in the high 80%'s(it varies across states/venues/machines), but its a manipulative stat

Punters hear "guaranteed 87% return" and they assume if they walk in with $100 they should walk out with $87.

Way the calculation works though is per bet. If our $100 friend was betting $1 a shot, they would get 87c coming back to them each time. Prob is over time their pool of money starts to fall, but they don't adjust their betting amounts - they are losing on average 13c a spin at the start, but if they keep betting $1 a spin, this remains constant, and the losses keep grinding down the initial $100 until nothing is left.

Add to this the huge pay outs are outliers, but are large enough to distort the data and push the average returns to the minimum regulatory requirements. Reality is the average punter takes home much less that 87%. A massive amount of time and money is spend designing the algorithms needed to deliver these outcomes.

Poker machines are designed to pay out small amounts regularly to encourage punting, but are also designed to drain a persons wallet without them realizing the gradual hits it is taking.

Easiest way to lose money on a poker machine is play it for a long time.

They are not a random number generator, there is no luck involved.

 

[I Remember Bluey]

there is no luck involved.

Bugger

 

[Arwib]

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2014-02-27/chairmans-welcome

Swans had revenues of $43m.

 

[brisbane13]

http://www.sydneyswans.com.au/news/2014-02-27/chairmans-welcome

Swans had revenues of $43m.

the swans are usually rather secretive on their club finances, but usually are crying poor. its hard to tell how well they are traveling due to never releasing an annual report

 

[fabulousphil]

From the groups who list revenue and expenses for gaming and venues

I am pretty sure, ( stand corrected of course) that Brisbane, should the Springfield deal go through, that they will open another Club complete with pokies at that site.

 

[The_Wookie]

Ok Ive splashed out a bit, and bought several annual reports today that arent usually accessible otherwise, this brings our records for 2013 to completion EXCEPT for the Gold coast suns. These reports are now contained with all the others in the industry library.

Adelaide

Revenue: $34.36 million, up from 34.14 million
Loss: 1.87 million, down from $122,000 profit
Merchandise: 1.37 million
Membership: 9.33 million, up from 8.6 million
Sponsorship: 8.86 million, down from 10.55 million
SANFL distribution: 650,000

Port Adelaide

Revenue: $41.6 million (up from 37.9 million)
Loss: 1.69 million (down from 2.11 million)
Football Expense: 18.6 million, up from 17.4 million

And thats it...Ports Annual Report was pretty low on details. RussellEbertHandball - thoughts?

Fremantle Football Club -

Revenue: 46.63 million (up from 42.77 million)
Rental/Royalty: 4.82 million, up from 4.62 million
Profit: $657,177, down from $376,245
Football Expense: 22.16 million, up from 20.89 million
Membership: 12.7 million, up from 11.7 million
Sponsorship: 4.35 million, up from 3.911 million
Merchandise: 2.9 million, up from 1.6 million
Match reciepts: 2.25 million, up from 2.08 million

Additional Notes:

- Corporate Box Revenue - 7.19 million
- Signage - 2.44 million
- Dining - 2.24 million

(fabulousphil, Rob et al)

Greater Western Sydney

Revenue: $31,959,745 (up from 30.7 million)
Profit: $30,386 (2012 loss of $176,647)
Football Expense: 20.1 million (up from 19.3 million)
Sponsorship: 9.2 million (up from 7.7 million)
membership and merchandise: 1.4 million (down from 1.6 million)
AFL distributions and match receipts: 18.2 million (down from 18.6 million)
- Note: The AFL 2013 Annual Report says that the league paid $10,739,611 million to GWS. Its highly unlikely that GWS made 7 million in match receipts.

All of this data has now been input into the OP.

 

[brisbane13]

Ok Ive splashed out a bit, and bought several annual reports today that arent usually accessible otherwise, this brings our records for 2013 to completion EXCEPT for the Gold coast suns. These reports are now contained with all the others in the industry library.

Adelaide

Revenue: $34.36 million, up from 34.14 million
Loss: 1.87 million, down from $122,000 profit
Merchandise: 1.37 million
Membership: 9.33 million, up from 8.6 million
Sponsorship: 8.86 million, down from 10.55 million
SANFL distribution: 650,000

Port Adelaide

Revenue: $41.6 million (up from 37.9 million)
Loss: 1.69 million (down from 2.11 million)
Football Expense: 18.6 million, up from 17.4 million

And thats it...Ports Annual Report was pretty low on details. RussellEbertHandball - thoughts?

Fremantle Football Club -

Revenue: 46.63 million (up from 42.77 million)
Rental/Royalty: 4.82 million, up from 4.62 million
Profit: $657,177, down from $376,245
Football Expense: 22.16 million, up from 20.89 million
Membership: 12.7 million, up from 11.7 million
Sponsorship: 4.35 million, up from 3.911 million
Merchandise: 2.9 million, up from 1.6 million
Match reciepts: 2.25 million, up from 2.08 million

Additional Notes:

- Corporate Box Revenue - 7.19 million
- Signage - 2.44 million
- Dining - 2.24 million

(fabulousphil, Rob et al)

Greater Western Sydney

Revenue: $31,959,745 (up from 30.7 million)
Profit: $30,386 (2012 loss of $176,647)
Football Expense: 20.1 million (up from 19.3 million)
Sponsorship: 9.2 million (up from 7.7 million)
membership and merchandise: 1.4 million (down from 1.6 million)
AFL distributions and match receipts: 18.2 million (down from 18.6 million)
- Note: The AFL 2013 Annual Report says that the league paid $10,739,611 million to GWS. Its highly unlikely that GWS made 7 million in match receipts.

All of this data has now been input into the OP.

GWS Sponsorship: 9.2 million
Fremantle Sponsorship: 4.35 million
go figure

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

......

And thats it...Ports Annual Report was pretty low on details. RussellEbertHandball - thoughts?

........

That might be my fault after I spent 15-20 minutes asking questions at the December 2012 AGM. I got there late for 2013 AGM plus they hadn't sent out the annual report so I was never going to ask any question but yeah what they gave members this year was BS.

 

[scotty13]

Interesting that Ports revenue is higher than Adelaides. Wish Port had a breakdown of the figures to work our where we are getting the edge on them.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Interesting that Ports revenue is higher than Adelaides. Wish Port had a breakdown of the figures to work our where we are getting the edge on them.

Its not that interesting. We have the Port Club $4.5mil revenue and then with the Magpies merger we have The Prince Hotel $3mil revenue and the Magpies revenue component from football is about $1mil and then there is the SANFL grant we got $2mil and the crows got $1mil of cash and in kind services. Prior to 2010 the crows got bugger all revenue from a social venue. In 2012 they got $1.5mil from the Westpac centre and in 2013 $1.3mil. The big plus the crows have over Port is that prior to moving to Adelaide they had 10,000 more 11 game season ticket memberships.

 

[scotty13]

Its not that interesting. We have the Port Club $4.5mil revenue and then with the Magpies merger we have The Prince Hotel $3mil revenue and the Magpies revenue component from football is about $1mil and then there is the SANFL grant we got $2mil and the crows got $1mil of cash and in kind services. Prior to 2010 the crows got bugger all revenue from a social venue. In 2012 they got $1.5mil from the Westpac centre and in 2013 $1.3mil. The big plus the crows have over Port is that prior to moving to Adelaide they had 10,000 more 11 game season ticket memberships.

Okay that makes sense... why didnt the club put that in?
Where did u get the figures from?
How much do we get from sposorship? membership? merchandise?

 

[The_Wookie]

GWS Sponsorship: 9.2 million
Fremantle Sponsorship: 4.35 million
go figure

West Coasts sponsorship revenue isnt all that high either, and Adelaides isnt exactly massive compared to some. I need to go back over the figures again, but its something like this

Sponsorship and Marketing Revenue
* this category may need to be re-examined

• Richmond - 22.9 million, up from 19.3 million
• Collingwood - 19.65 million (includes merch.) up from 19.1 million
• Geelong - 17.04 million, up from 15.69 million
• Essendon - 16.84 million, up from 15.92 million
• Hawthorn - 15.22 million, up from 15.08 million
• Carlton - 12.27 million, down from 12.5 million
• Brisbane - 11.25 million (down from 11.7 million)
• Greater Western Sydney - 9.19 million (up from 7.7 million)
• Adelaide - 8.86 million, down from 10.55 million
• West Coast - 7.65 million, up from 7.0 million
• North Melbourne - 7.61 million (up from 7.26 million)
• Melbourne - 6.36 million, down from 8.29 million
• St Kilda - 5.16 million, down from 6.71 million
• Fremantle - 4.35 million, up from 3.911 million

Its one of the reasons why I dont believe the arguments regarding a team in tasmania stand up in so far as sponsorship is concerned.

 

[The_Wookie]

For the missing reports:

• The Swans dont appear to have issued a 2013 report, its not showing in the ASIC lists. the last one on record seems to be from 2012
  
• Gold Coast havent issued a report since 2011 - that report is now also in the industry library if you want to see a masterpiece of non information - and seem to have deregistered the original Docklands based entity in january, after establishing a new Cararra based entity in October last year.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Okay that makes sense... why didnt the club put that in?

I think I scared them off after all my questions at the AGM in December 2012

Where did u get the figures from?

I have been reading our figures since 2002 - both Power and Magpies. Look at the 2012 annual report and you will see the pub totals are about $7.75mil and I have been reading AFL and club figures since 2004. Its in my head.

2012 annual report
http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/st...romos/2012 - Club Promos/2012AnnualReport.pdf

How much do we get from sposorship? membership? merchandise?

We don't get that split in 2013 and in 2012. In 2012 they reported one line Revenue from Football Operations. But in 2011 they split it up a bit more

http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/port_docs/2011AnnualReport.pdf

Item.................................2011.........2010
Match Revenue........... 263,863... (130,031)
Marketing Revenue 16,238,492 15,650,382
Merchandise................ 696,759.... 690,423

KT in his results announcement said the following about 2013....( I assume 2012 and 2011 were very similar given revenue decreased in 2012
36,649,694 from 2011 figure of 37,017,885. The SANFL grant decreased by $2mil ( ie from $4mil to $2mil) which was countered balanced by only $1.6mil increase in other revenue $500k from AFL, $900k from pubs and $200k from Revenue from Football Operations.)

http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/news/2013-12-11/from-the-ceo-11-december

- Record Membership, up 30%
- Record Merchandise sales, up 180%
- TV Audiences up 30%
- Home match attendances up 38%
- Signing of international brand Renault as a major partner
- Corporate revenue up 10%

This heightened level of member/supporter engagement drove an overall revenue uplift of $2.5m over last year.

At the same time we were able to continue to invest in the ongoing rebuild of the Port Adelaide Football Club, with $2 million of budgeted strategic spending on further enhancing our football program and increasing our capacity to maximise our return from Adelaide Oval in 2014.

The improved on field performances of 2013 and a strengthening image of the club building its national presence will attract strong corporate support in 2014 and beyond.

Financial Year Result
- In 2012, the Port Adelaide Football Club recorded an operating loss of $2.1 million.
- In 2013, the like-for-like result is an operating loss of $1.7 million, a 20% improvement year-on-year.

Included in that result is $417,000 of one-off expenses related to the Adelaide Oval project, which when deducted from the overall year-end result produces a normalised bottom line outcome of a $1.283 million loss.

http://www.portadelaidefc.com.au/news/2013-12-11/from-the-ceo-11-december
So merchandise sales were probably around $2.0mil in 2013.