Mega Thread Trade and List Management discussion

[TheHoneyBadger]

And running on his bloody right side. Gets stuck on his left far too much.

I wish we could somehow trick a quick player who can kick 50m on both feet into signing a 5 year contract with us.

I can kick a football reasonably straight around 40m or so on both feet and I'm skin and bone, just short of 6 foot and I'm not paid to play footy. Should be a non-negotiable.

Griff's not bad on his left but he gets himself into tough situations making up his mind whether to try and get back onto the right or kick on the left.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

As long as Wallis isn't playing as a pure tagger. We saw on the weekend that he actually does pretty well essentially just getting in before his direct opponent which is actually what he was doing last year.

He's a classic childhood ball winner who could just "get it" as a kid when no pressure is around. He is now being taught, like they all need to, that there is more than one part to the game. He is tough, disciplined and concentrates well through a game so he will make it. He lacks leg speed enormously which is fine if he moves the ball well, which he seems to. I do like him and would prefer him over Boyd. Had massive respect for the former captain's discipline, leadership etc but he is now someone who gets it heaps and gives it back to the opposition.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

I wish we could somehow trick a quick player who can kick 50m on both feet into signing a 5 year contract with us.

I can kick a football reasonably straight around 40m or so on both feet and I'm skin and bone, just short of 6 foot and I'm not paid to play footy. Should be a non-negotiable.

Griff's not bad on his left but he gets himself into tough situations making up his mind whether to try and get back onto the right or kick on the left.

Kicking both feet flat out with a 6'3" gorilla bearing down on you is a little different to the park

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Kicking both feet flat out with a 6'3" gorilla bearing down on you is a little different to the park

I wouldn't imagine putting boot to ball and kicking accurately on either foot would be particularly difficult for an AFL player. But see your point.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Don't forget that our side could have the dominance of Geelong or Hawthorn and people on here would still complain.

Not sure about that. I'd been very content with three flags in five years and would never complain again.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Not sure about that. I'd been very content with three flags in five years and would never complain again.

Me too, but you can't please everyone. The fact that we have people screaming blue murder after the weekend means people's expectations on this group are unrealistic. We are trying to build a style that works, we could go down the silky path of 08, 09 & 10 but that got us bugger all. This tough footy will work when we have someone catching the ball.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Me too, but you can't please everyone. The fact that we have people screaming blue murder after the weekend means people's expectations on this group are unrealistic. We are trying to build a style that works, we could go down the silky path of 08, 09 & 10 but that got us bugger all. This tough footy will work when we have someone catching the ball.

True, but it's a results-driven business and Matthew Lloyd's article in yesterday's Age was on the money.

In basic terms, he said we should be getting frustrated with the on-field performances and demanding more than just being competitive for a few quarters (at times).

I'm convinced by yesterday's performance, that apart from a decent tall, marking forward, we need speedy midfielders, because we've overdosed on hard nut midfielders who can win the footy but have average disposal skills.

 

[Mutt]

Me too, but you can't please everyone. The fact that we have people screaming blue murder after the weekend means people's expectations on this group are unrealistic. We are trying to build a style that works, we could go down the silky path of 08, 09 & 10 but that got us bugger all. This tough footy will work when we have someone catching the ball.

Where have you been hiding these past couple of years? Stick around mate - I'm enjoying your stuff a lot!

 

[Pannalstaroz]

True, but it's a results-driven business and Matthew Lloyd's article in yesterday's Age was on the money.

In basic terms, he said we should be getting frustrated with the on-field performances and demanding more than just being competitive for a few quarters (at times).

I'm convinced by yesterday's performance, that apart from a decent tall, marking forward, we need speedy midfielders, because we've overdosed on hard nut midfielders who can win the footy but have average disposal skills.

I've echoed these thoughts ad nauseam - we need a gorilla to catch it and guys to take advantage of the inside mids clearing ability.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

Where have you been hiding these past couple of years? Stick around mate - I'm enjoying your stuff a lot!

I'm a very passionate Gold member who screams at the umps, hates losing and loves his team, but I'm also a rational thinker who, I think has a pretty good grasp on where we're at. Time will tell. I'm enjoying the forum. Many of the guys I don't agree with, but that's what it's all about. The guys who are a little more temperate in their praise and their criticism are the one's I'm going to enjoy the most I reckon, but thanks for the love big fella.

 

[Reptilia]

We need a tall player that worries opposition defenders... so that they double team him etc. That's how our second tells can influence games.

 

[VitalDread]

We need a tall player that worries opposition defenders... so that they double team him etc. That's how our second tells can influence games.

agreed to a certain point, i strongly believe he may go down the path of fast forwards.
being able to break away from their defender and set themselves up for goal.
aka Cram, Grant, jones etc

 

[Dogsman16]

Now this speculative trade is certainly not the answer to our forward woes but a trade I would like to consider.

Currently we have one player on our list who is a 195cm + key forward that being Liam Jones. You could add Jack Redpath (194cm) to this discussion but Redpath also spent a considerable amount of time in defence in the past couple of years and hasnt player a senior game of AFL yet.
We have tried Campbell and Cordy (who are our project ruck combination in a few years time) as kpf/2nd ruck and both have only shown minor glimpses (Campbell moreso than Cordy).
Considering our father son picks which hopefully will be Z Cordy as our fourth pick and Foster as as a Rookie (who will spend all of 2015 in the 2s), we will still need roughly 1 - 2 more KPF with one of them hopefully being able to play forward and back.

Currently our first round pick will stands at 5 and could either drop a position or depending on mid and end of season input from our additions to the side (J Grant) we might end up with pick 7. With picks 4 to 7 we may or may not end up with 1 of the 4 KPP that everyone talks about (Wright, Goddard, McCartin, Durdin). I am also worried about McCartin having Diabetes but thats for another discussion. So if our worst fears are confirmed and we end up with none of the 4, we take Pickett or Duggan for speed and outside class. My preference is to trade our first rounder for a good up and coming key forward but clubs certainly arent keen to enter into those discussions (Patton, Lynch, Dixon) etc all would be great targets but very difficult to pry away.

Taking all that into consideration and a slighty different subject, lets leave Christian Howard in the seniors for one purpose and one purpose only (to try and increase his trade value). If we can do this we can then entertain trading him back to a SA club for a KPF that maybe the crows or PA might be using as depth.
Currently for PA and the crows they have all of these players out of the seniors who dont play regular games and are KPFs, these include...
John Butcher
Mitchell Harvey
Lewis Johnston
Whoever adelaide are forced to leave out through Tex coming back.

From this list it can be suggested that Harvey is only one year into his career and won't be traded away, Lewis Johnston is a good kick at goal but doesnt get his hands on the ball enough and is only 192 - 193 cm, not really the type we are looking for. Adelaide may or may not be able to play all of Walker, Jenkins, Pods and Lynch in the same team but I doubt it. Pods is probably the guy to be left out but he is 32 and not even worth considering.
From that John Butcher is the only player that I would pursue, despite his inability to kick straight plus his regularly injury rate, we can ill afford to have only 1 true KPF (on our list in 2015). Without Jones, we got towled up by GC having only Crameri in the forward line and against Freo, Roberts played out of position, who I think is a far better defender, and Williams was ineffective, too injury prone and slow to take marks inside 50.

That being said if by trade period we only have 1 true KPF (being Jones on our list), unable to pry a gun KPF from the expansion clubs and unlikely to get a top KPF from the draft (who even still might take 3 - 5 years to come on). I would strongly entertain.

Christian Howard (in form Christian howard) and Pick 42 (3rd rounder) for John Butcher.

Thoughts?

Feel free to suggest other draft pick options for this trade.

 

[Dav1d]

Now this speculative trade is certainly not the answer to our forward woes but a trade I would like to consider.

Currently we have one player on our list who is a 195cm + key forward that being Liam Jones. You could add Jack Redpath (194cm) to this discussion but Redpath also spent a considerable amount of time in defence in the past couple of years and hasnt player a senior game of AFL yet.
We have tried Campbell and Cordy (who are our project ruck combination in a few years time) as kpf/2nd ruck and both have only shown minor glimpses (Campbell moreso than Cordy).
Considering our father son picks which hopefully will be Z Cordy as our fourth pick and Foster as as a Rookie (who will spend all of 2015 in the 2s), we will still need roughly 1 - 2 more KPF with one of them hopefully being able to play forward and back.

my thoughts are that we'll probably have another lean year next year and will likely pick up another KPF next year as well
I think that we need to at least have 3 true KPFs on the list with Roberts playing a swingman role
So we have a couple of options when one is not in form or if injury strikes

regarding Butcher, I think it'd cost quite a bit more then that; KPFs even if he isn't exactly amazing still cost you a bundle because of that whole idea that talls mature later in their career; but I like the discussion

 

[footyfan000001]

Now this speculative trade is certainly not the answer to our forward woes but a trade I would like to consider.

Currently we have one player on our list who is a 195cm + key forward that being Liam Jones. You could add Jack Redpath (194cm) to this discussion but Redpath also spent a considerable amount of time in defence in the past couple of years and hasnt player a senior game of AFL yet.
We have tried Campbell and Cordy (who are our project ruck combination in a few years time) as kpf/2nd ruck and both have only shown minor glimpses (Campbell moreso than Cordy).
Considering our father son picks which hopefully will be Z Cordy as our fourth pick and Foster as as a Rookie (who will spend all of 2015 in the 2s), we will still need roughly 1 - 2 more KPF with one of them hopefully being able to play forward and back.

Currently our first round pick will stands at 5 and could either drop a position or depending on mid and end of season input from our additions to the side (J Grant) we might end up with pick 7. With picks 4 to 7 we may or may not end up with 1 of the 4 KPP that everyone talks about (Wright, Goddard, McCartin, Durdin). I am also worried about McCartin having Diabetes but thats for another discussion. So if our worst fears are confirmed and we end up with none of the 4, we take Pickett or Duggan for speed and outside class. My preference is to trade our first rounder for a good up and coming key forward but clubs certainly arent keen to enter into those discussions (Patton, Lynch, Dixon) etc all would be great targets but very difficult to pry away.

Taking all that into consideration and a slighty different subject, lets leave Christian Howard in the seniors for one purpose and one purpose only (to try and increase his trade value). If we can do this we can then entertain trading him back to a SA club for a KPF that maybe the crows or PA might be using as depth.
Currently for PA and the crows they have all of these players out of the seniors who dont play regular games and are KPFs, these include...
John Butcher
Mitchell Harvey
Lewis Johnston
Whoever adelaide are forced to leave out through Tex coming back.

From this list it can be suggested that Harvey is only one year into his career and won't be traded away, Lewis Johnston is a good kick at goal but doesnt get his hands on the ball enough and is only 192 - 193 cm, not really the type we are looking for. Adelaide may or may not be able to play all of Walker, Jenkins, Pods and Lynch in the same team but I doubt it. Pods is probably the guy to be left out but he is 32 and not even worth considering.
From that John Butcher is the only player that I would pursue, despite his inability to kick straight plus his regularly injury rate, we can ill afford to have only 1 true KPF (on our list in 2015). Without Jones, we got towled up by GC having only Crameri in the forward line and against Freo, Roberts played out of position, who I think is a far better defender, and Williams was ineffective, too injury prone and slow to take marks inside 50.

That being said if by trade period we only have 1 true KPF (being Jones on our list), unable to pry a gun KPF from the expansion clubs and unlikely to get a top KPF from the draft (who even still might take 3 - 5 years to come on). I would strongly entertain.

Christian Howard (in form Christian howard) and Pick 42 (3rd rounder) for John Butcher.

Thoughts?

Feel free to suggest other draft pick options for this trade.

Whilst I love the fact that you have gone into detail and have put some thought in - I do have to give my opinion and some honesty. Port Adelaide would laugh so hard at this. They would want nothing less than a first round pick for Butcher - especially if contracted. Howard would be lucky to get a game for Port's reserves.

That trade would also be pushing it for Johnston!

Mitch Harvey on the other hand..I assume Port would want to keep him for days after Schulz retires.

 

[Dogsman16]

my thoughts are that we'll probably have another lean year next year and will likely pick up another KPF next year as well
I think that we need to at least have 3 true KPFs on the list with Roberts playing a swingman role
So we have a couple of options when one is not in form or if injury strikes

regarding Butcher, I think it'd cost quite a bit more then that; KPFs even if he isn't exactly amazing still cost you a bundle because of that whole idea that talls mature later in their career; but I like the discussion

Yeah I'm not sure what else I would consider. I certainly wouldn't go Round 2 pick + Howard. But somehow we need another 2 KPF (plus foster on the rookie list) whether they be draft, gun trade or depth trade. I want Carlisle but as he has proven he ain't a key forward and I want him at the end of 2015 trade period, when we probably have morris retire, ASADA bull**** has been cleaned up and he's out of contract. Also on other note Mark Thompson said he would not be at Essendon next year can we get him here for less money but around the people he knows.

 

[Dogsman16]

Whilst I love the fact that you have gone into detail and have put some thought in - I do have to give my opinion and some honesty. Port Adelaide would laugh so hard at this. They would want nothing less than a first round pick for Butcher - especially if contracted. Howard would be lucky to get a game for Port's reserves.

That trade would also be pushing it for Johnston!

Mitch Harvey on the other hand..I assume Port would want to keep him for days after Schulz retires.

I would laugh even harder if they suggested we trade our first rounder for him. I would entertain our early 2nd rounder but i was hoping that would be spent on outside polish who can have an immediate impact.

 

[Dav1d]

Yeah I'm not sure what else I would consider. I certainly wouldn't go Round 2 pick + Howard. But somehow we need another 2 KPF (plus foster on the rookie list) whether they be draft, gun trade or depth trade. I want Carlisle but as he has proven he ain't a key forward and I want him at the end of 2015 trade period, when we probably have morris retire, ASADA bull**** has been cleaned up and he's out of contract. Also on other note Mark Thompson said he would not be at Essendon next year can we get him here for less money but around the people he knows.

Pick 5 as it stands now, potentially pick 4 for a pick 8 with injuries and kicking issues would be pretty crazy
I think we can afford to wait on Butcher until next year, he is still young and we just draft a KPF with our first that has an immediate impact
but even if we did recruit a gun KPF, I'd still want another; like you said, depth is horrible in that position and in our KPDs post Morris

So I'd hope for a KPF early in the draft, a player with outside class, (maybe Cordy) or a KPP, then Cordy; Rookie Foster and additional outside class and a project ruck and KPD

then go into next years draft and trade period and trade for or draft another KPF or more outside class

 

[Dogsman16]

Pick 5 as it stands now, potentially pick 4 for a pick 8 with injuries and kicking issues would be pretty crazy
I think we can afford to wait on Butcher until next year, he is still young and we just draft a KPF with our first that has an immediate impact
but even if we did recruit a gun KPF, I'd still want another; like you said, depth is horrible in that position and in our KPDs post Morris

So I'd hope for a KPF early in the draft, a player with outside class, (maybe Cordy) or a KPP, then Cordy; Rookie Foster and additional outside class and a project ruck and KPD

then go into next years draft and trade period and trade for or draft another KPF or more outside class

Problem is though we can ill afford giving another year of Minson and Griffen starting to decline without a key forward. By the time our 2014 key forward draftee develops both of those two will almost be gone and then we will have to fill another 2 positions. I just pray we can pry a good young key forward or this young key forward draftee (that may or may not be able to be drafted with our first pick) has a Cameron like impact. After 2014 we don't have the luxury of time. All of Boyd, Murph, Gia, Morris gone and Cooney, Griff, and Minson, close to if not 30. We will consistently be filling 4 holes come next year we can ill afford to do so when Minson, Cooney and Grif are near 30.

This could go both ways, we either sink and stay in the lower rungs, or like 2006 - 2008 when Darcy, West, Smith, Grant retired, we still swim.

 

[fronkalicious]

Butcher sucks.

If we can't get a top line key forward this off-season (which is highly unlikely, given guys like Boyd, Patton, cameron, Tomlinson. Carlisle etc are all contracted for next season), we have to sit tight and load up for the summer of 2015, rather than pay overs to bring in a battler like butcher.

 

[1961grandfinal]

agreed to a certain point, i strongly believe he may go down the path of fast forwards.
being able to break away from their defender and set themselves up for goal.
aka Cram, Grant, jones etc

What about Gary Rohan? until his leg was broken he was just what we lack with a run and gun style and good kick; now he is not in their sights with many ahead of him in the swans team. Unaware of his contractual status but of a very appropriate age for us.

 

[Pannalstaroz]

What about Gary Rohan? until his leg was broken he was just what we lack with a run and gun style and good kick; now he is not in their sights with many ahead of him in the swans team. Unaware of his contractual status but of a very appropriate age for us.

I like it. Go get him.

 

[Membling]

Rohan signed an extension this year until 2017

 

[Super Hans]

Rohan signed an extension this year until 2017

Not saying Rohan will leave, but contracts mean squat when it comes to trades.

If we want pace Liam Sumner is the one we should target.

 

[doggies ftw]

Rohan signed an extension this year until 2017

Yeah no doubt it would be hard to pry Rohan away, but from the outside looking in I don't think it would be impossible. He's the sort of player who I could really see us going hard at. Hows he been tracking this year?

With our rumoured interest in Sam Reid, reckon Sydney would consider a deal involving those two and our likely top 6 pick?