Analysis Stadium deals - what, how, when - why we need a new one and the SA footy paradigm shift happening

[bomberclifford]

Does that include the building?
$2mil per year is a big number.

The figure came from Trigg's interview post license buy back announcement.

My understanding is that it covered the upkeep of the training grounds as well as the facilities.

 

[Dalphonso]

So if Port have a few seats on the SMA board does that then mean we would share some of the SMA profits?

 

[tribey]

If Geelong with mid-low 30k crowds can average 6 figure returns from games, yet port and the crows can only make in the very low 5 figures. There's something going on with all the revenue at the oval.

Totally on board with your sentiment, but Geelong is an insane outlier to the point of wondering whether Bob Davis sold his soul or found a genie lamp in his sunset years.

Between the forty-odd million government dollars thrown at the Kardinia Park precinct - on account of the area being the most marginal federal and state seat in the country - and the Cats controlling all stadium revenue, they've had a golden goose fall in their lap that's situationally irrelevant to just about every other stadium deal on the planet.

Lucky bastards.

 

[Macca19]

Totally on board with your sentiment, but Geelong is an insane outlier to the point of wondering whether Bob Davis sold his soul or found a genie lamp in his sunset years.

Between the forty-odd million government dollars thrown at the Kardinia Park precinct - on account of the area being the most marginal federal and state seat in the country - and the Cats controlling all stadium revenue, they've had a golden goose fall in their lap that's situationally irrelevant to just about every other stadium deal on the planet.

Lucky bastards.

This. And the government have promised another $70m development there.

Marginal bliss.

 

[Coobk001]

Totally on board with your sentiment, but Geelong is an insane outlier to the point of wondering whether Bob Davis sold his soul or found a genie lamp in his sunset years.

Between the forty-odd million government dollars thrown at the Kardinia Park precinct - on account of the area being the most marginal federal and state seat in the country - and the Cats controlling all stadium revenue, they've had a golden goose fall in their lap that's situationally irrelevant to just about every other stadium deal on the planet.

Lucky bastards.

Which leads me to my other questions though. They have a nice deal which is great, but in theory given the SANFL actually owned AAMI it should've been basically rent free except they were obviously skimming off the top big time to fund "game development" as they're calling it. So if this is the case and the PAFC & AFC have to fund game development in SA, do the Cats have to fund game development in Geelong? Do they contribute to any AFL Vic development funds? If not then why is there such an uneven playing field that see's PAFC & AFC not seeing such a large chunk of our generated revenue if the other clubs dont need to contribute such cash to "game development".

This of course led to my next couple points above.

 

[Macca19]

Unless the two clubs start to see some revenue from catering then im not sure how its even at all possible to improve the situation without selling out every week.

Where is the incentive for people to spend money inside the stadium, knowing that a big fat $0.00 goes to the clubs?

 

[Garibaldi Red]

This. And the government have promised another $70m development there.

Marginal bliss.

So there we have it, those in the Port Adelaide electorates (State and Federal) need to make it a marginal seat as opposed to the current situation and we will inherit a goldmine.

 

[Ported]

This. And the government have promised another $70m development there.

Marginal bliss.

The article posted earlier stated that they're going to recieve seven HUNDRED million for kardinia and I nearly choked until I realised it was a typo.

They could launch it into low earth orbit with that.

 

[*PAF]

The figure came from Trigg's interview post license buy back announcement.

My understanding is that it covered the upkeep of the training grounds as well as the facilities.

Probably came straight from the SANFL.
That still seems to be a massive amount. What is our maintenance budget? Surely our facilities are similar if not bigger.

 

[Port 2004]

The figure came from Trigg's interview post license buy back announcement.

My understanding is that it covered the upkeep of the training grounds as well as the facilities.

Absolutely correct. Trigg was on 5cc when he stated that the free rent and upkeep is worth $2m a year. Funny how that barely ever gets mentioned. Imagine if we were getting a $2m free pa freebie from the SANFL scum, we would never hear the end of it.

 

[Port 2004]

Probably came straight from the SANFL.
That still seems to be a massive amount. What is our maintenance budget? Surely our facilities are similar if not bigger.

No it did not. Trigg made the statement on 5cc. It is a FREE RIDE for the cows from the SANFL. It has nothing to do with us and our upkeep of Alberton.

 

[Stryke]

Where is the incentive for people to spend money inside the stadium, knowing that a big fat $0.00 goes to the clubs?

I won't be spending a cent inside this year. Will suck not having a beer during the game but I have to feel like I am doing something.

 

[Coobk001]

RussellEbertHandball I was looking through the Crows report V WCE report, and it appears that the major discrepancies in income last year were obviously $8M in membership and $12M in "corporate hospitality revenue". The rest appears made up by some near $3M in "Functions and special events revenue".

What do you reckon the corp hospitality revenue would be? The crows earnt 1.3 mill in corp boxes themselves. Surely the Eagles dont have that many more corporate boxes, or the ability to charge 12x the price?

Obviously it appears they pay rent of about $4M to the WAFC, but what I'm trying to work out is whether they have a clean stadium deal? Could that $11 Mill extra in hospitality be from catering sales, parking, etc @ the ground that the SANFL just take straight off the SA clubs?


Looking @ Freo to get a better idea, they are $12 million in front of the crows in revenue.

Froe had far less sponsorship money come in, but their additional revenue seems to come from about 6 million corp boxes, 2.2 million match revenue, signage of 2.4, dining of 2.2 and functions and events of 2 mill.

That again seems like a lot of additional revenue from game day in the corp boxes, match revenue and signage.

 

[Papa G]

I wrote this on the main board, but it may go a little way to explaining things:

The SMA have 32 corporate boxes at $120,000 each.
This equals $3,840,00 per year but let's assume it is shared between footy and cricket. Half is $1,920,000
SMA have the Audi Club. 1,440 places at $4,315. That equals $6,213,000 per year. again we assume this is shared 50/50 with cricket. This equals $3,106,800.
Sharing with cricket 50/50 might be a bit generous to cricket as there is more footy than than there is meaningful cricket, but hey, I'll err on the side of conservatism.
SMA have 8,000 22 game footy tickets at $550 a pop. These are not shared with cricket. The revenue from these is $4,400,000.

So there is nearly $9.5 million in revenue before we take into account all the other smaller corporate facilities, room hire, food and beverage, as well as the many many other functions/concerts etc the Oval now handles.

None of these type of arrangements/stadium memberships occur at Subiaco. The Clubs run it all and all revenue goes to them. From there, they pay a rent to the ground.

 

[Coobk001]

Yeah that helps a little, but I guess what I'm trying to work out is how did the WA teams make so much more from these sorts of facilities at the WACA than Adelaide did at AAMI.

I did notice that SANFL Inc turned over about $4m more than WAFC Inc last year, but didn't go further into the specifics there. Given they're a bigger state than us, plus the differences in attendances between Port & Crows V WCE and Freo in 2013 you think this extra revenue seems disproportionate. Possibly highlighting the extra stripping the SANFL are doing.

 

[Papa G]

Yeah that helps a little, but I guess what I'm trying to work out is how did the WA teams make so much more from these sorts of facilities at the WACA than we did at AAMI.

I did notice that SANFL Inc turned over about $4m more than WAFC Inc last year, but didn't go further into the specifics there. Given they're a bigger state than us, plus the differences in attendances between Port & Crows V WCE and Freo in 2013 you think this extra revenue seems disproportionate. Possibly highlighting the extra stripping the SANFL are doing.

They charge higher prices, there is no stadium membership, they can sell all their prime seats on centre wing and all their corporates at the prices they want to charge and all the cash goes to them.

I've said it on the main board, but if the Crows were allowed to sell the SMA inventory themselves, their revenue, based on the natural uplift/increase in membership from the move to AO as well, I reckon their revenue could be up to $13-14 Mill. That would put them just behind West Coast and miles in front of every body else.

The WA clubs don't have an SMA, Medallion Club, MCC/AFL members. They have a clean stadium.

 

[Mattrox]

So if Port have a few seats on the SMA board does that then mean we would share some of the SMA profits?

The 70% of the canteen take that the clubs are asking for.

Clubs would only profit from football I would imgine.

 

[Mattrox]

Absolutely correct. Trigg was on 5cc when he stated that the free rent and upkeep is worth $2m a year. Funny how that barely ever gets mentioned. Imagine if we were getting a $2m free pa freebie from the SANFL scum, we would never hear the end of it.

It might be $2m on paper to make everything look good to fans. But I bet the actual benefit the Crows get is nowhere near that number.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

Yeah that helps a little, but I guess what I'm trying to work out is how did the WA teams make so much more from these sorts of facilities at the WACA than Adelaide did at AAMI.

I did notice that SANFL Inc turned over about $4m more than WAFC Inc last year, but didn't go further into the specifics there. Given they're a bigger state than us, plus the differences in attendances between Port & Crows V WCE and Freo in 2013 you think this extra revenue seems disproportionate. Possibly highlighting the extra stripping the SANFL are doing.

Supply and demand.

Wce sell 10,000 to 12,000 seats for $700 - $770. We sell 1,500 at $610 the rest are under $400. There is about $4mil net of GST difference just for those 12,000 seats as their costs of serving a $770 member might be $10-$20 more than servicing a Port $390 member because they give an extra merchandise item. Then look at the income differnce of the next 25,000 seats Wce sell compared to Port.

 

[RussellEbertHandball]

RussellEbertHandball I was looking through the Crows report V WCE report, and it appears that the major discrepancies in income last year were obviously $8M in membership and $12M in "corporate hospitality revenue". The rest appears made up by some near $3M in "Functions and special events revenue".

What do you reckon the corp hospitality revenue would be? The crows earnt 1.3 mill in corp boxes themselves. Surely the Eagles dont have that many more corporate boxes, or the ability to charge 12x the price?

Obviously it appears they pay rent of about $4M to the WAFC, but what I'm trying to work out is whether they have a clean stadium deal? Could that $11 Mill extra in hospitality be from catering sales, parking, etc @ the ground that the SANFL just take straight off the SA clubs?


Looking @ Freo to get a better idea, they are $12 million in front of the crows in revenue.

Froe had far less sponsorship money come in, but their additional revenue seems to come from about 6 million corp boxes, 2.2 million match revenue, signage of 2.4, dining of 2.2 and functions and events of 2 mill.

That again seems like a lot of additional revenue from game day in the corp boxes, match revenue and signage.

2013 = Footy Park - those superboxes = 100% revenue for Sanfl. Crows and Port only had 1 area each they could sell - for us SuiteOne and a few "open boxes". At Subi every corporate facility is sold by WCE. Although I think Wafc and Subiaco footy club get one small area for free.

 

[scotty13]

I won't be spending a cent inside this year. Will suck not having a beer during the game but I have to feel like I am doing something.

It easy... take a cpl of water bottles in a bag... fill those water bottles up with the finest of beers, and enjoy yourself

 

[Port 2004]

It might be $2m on paper to make everything look good to fans. But I bet the actual benefit the Crows get is nowhere near that number.

Well Trigg said it was "in the order of $2m". Regardless of the figure the crows are receiving a significant benefit that otherwise would impact upon their bottom line. It does not really bother me, howevetr it shows up many of the cretins that make a living out out of taking pot shots at Port, as being massive hipocrites.

 

[raman]

So if the best thing happens and both clubs do earn a higher share of the revenue (out of the SANFL's cut, of course) due to pressure from the AFL and state government, do you think the SANFL will defray their "losses" by deciding not to cop the upkeep costs for AAMI anymore?

If so, lol.

 

[Sneeky]

So if the best thing happens and both clubs do earn a higher share of the revenue (out of the SANFL's cut, of course) due to pressure from the AFL and state government, do you think the SANFL will defray their "losses" by deciding not to cop the upkeep costs for AAMI anymore?

If so, lol.

A man can dream

 

[Quadzilla]

Unless the two clubs start to see some revenue from catering then im not sure how its even at all possible to improve the situation without selling out every week.

Where is the incentive for people to spend money inside the stadium, knowing that a big fat $0.00 goes to the clubs?

How did the Encore Group get the AO catering contract? I understand its owned by SANFL...Is that correct?