List Mgmt. 2016 general list discussion and speculation (cont in Pt.2)

[Pure_Ownage]

I know that was the impression re Caddy, but I haven't seen any evidence of it. As far as I'm aware he nominated us.

As for Longer: http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/a...man-billy-longer/story-fn69a32t-1226743039128

ST KILDA is set to secure Brisbane Lions ruckman Billy Longer after he told the Lions he wanted to be traded to the Saints.​

This is one of the great trade and draft myths. Multiple suitors bid up a player's salary. They do not bid up a trade value.

Of course players almost always nominate one club, but there are two other factors, whether a) they are willing to talk to other clubs and are open to going there if necessary, which means the current club cant be held to ransom because they know it's unlikely the player will walk to the psd and b) whether the preferred club they nominate has an early psd pick.

My recollection is with Caddy that he was impressed with our leaders and nominated us, he also met with North and Richmond among other clubs and was happy to go to any of them if necessary as he just wanted to be back in Vic. So we had to cough up a first rounder as we had no leverage to lowball GC, they were either going to get a first rounder for from us or one of the other clubs, as none of the three could have got him in the psd.

By contrast Christensen refused to even speak to more than one club, which meant combined with his off field issues no one else would risk picking him, and nominated a club that had an early psd pick, which stuffed us. Not all trades happen that way.

For example if Motlop nominates say Richmond or WC and either finishes 8th-10th, and he is willing to at least talk to more than one club, we are still getting at a minimum a first round pick off either, which although it's not his full value, is not us getting done over badly. If by contrast he nominates Brisbane and they finish bottom 4, and he wont talk to multiple clubs, then we will get done over badly.

 

[Go Hoops]

and I thought you could draft guys like Motlop with picks in the 30's

Motlop signed last time in August didn't he? His manager is in earnest conversation with the club now as we head for August. Join the dots people.

 

[catempire]

Of course players almost always nominate one club, but there are two other factors, whether a) they are willing to talk to other clubs and are open to going there if necessary, which means the current club cant be held to ransom because they know it's unlikely the player will walk to the psd and b) whether the preferred club they nominate has an early psd pick.

My recollection is with Caddy that he was impressed with our leaders and nominated us, he also met with North and Richmond among other clubs and was happy to go to any of them if necessary as he just wanted to be back in Vic. So we had to cough up a first rounder as we had no leverage to lowball GC, they were either going to get a first rounder for from us or one of the other clubs, as none of the three could have got him in the psd.

By contrast Christensen refused to even speak to more than one club, which meant combined with his off field issues no one else would risk picking him, and nominated a club that had an early psd pick, which stuffed us. Not all trades happen that way.

For example if Motlop nominates say Richmond or WC and either finishes 8th-10th, and he is willing to at least talk to more than one club, we are still getting at a minimum a first round pick off either, which although it's not his full value, is not us getting done over badly. If by contrast he nominates Brisbane and they finish bottom 4, and he wont talk to multiple clubs, then we will get done over badly.

Yep, agree with all that. I just think some people slip into a mindset that competing suitors = getting true value in a trade which I think isn't borne out by history.

 

[Turbocat]

Motlop signed last time in August didn't he? His manager is in earnest conversation with the club now as we head for August. Join the dots people.

What has my post to do with yours.. ? I mentioned draft picks in the 30's.. you mention Aug for him signing etc.

 

[Turbocat]

Of course players almost always nominate one club, but there are two other factors, whether a) they are willing to talk to other clubs and are open to going there if necessary, which means the current club cant be held to ransom because they know it's unlikely the player will walk to the psd and b) whether the preferred club they nominate has an early psd pick.

My recollection is with Caddy that he was impressed with our leaders and nominated us, he also met with North and Richmond among other clubs and was happy to go to any of them if necessary as he just wanted to be back in Vic. So we had to cough up a first rounder as we had no leverage to lowball GC, they were either going to get a first rounder for from us or one of the other clubs, as none of the three could have got him in the psd.

By contrast Christensen refused to even speak to more than one club, which meant combined with his off field issues no one else would risk picking him, and nominated a club that had an early psd pick, which stuffed us. Not all trades happen that way.

For example if Motlop nominates say Richmond or WC and either finishes 8th-10th, and he is willing to at least talk to more than one club, we are still getting at a minimum a first round pick off either, which although it's not his full value, is not us getting done over badly. If by contrast he nominates Brisbane and they finish bottom 4, and he wont talk to multiple clubs, then we will get done over badly.

The only curve in a Caddy type situation is he wanted back to Vic... so several clubs fitted the criteria. Can we say that for Motlop ..who knows

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

A couple of ready made midfielders that can get their hands on the footy and works harder would be nice. Some run and carry off of half back would be nice too.

Skeptical we're getting Danger or Scott. So not sure who else we can get?

 

[Pure_Ownage]

A couple of ready made midfielders that can get their hands on the footy and works harder would be nice. Some run and carry off of half back would be nice too.

Skeptical we're getting Danger or Scott. So not sure who else we can get?

If we cant get Danger or Scooter then Shiel or Treloar would be obvious targets (although both would cost us a lot). Crozier or Sheridan will leave Freo (ideally I would target Weller but they wont release him), Sydney will lose a midfielder, we should be targeting Mitchell but he is contracted, clubs will try to convince them to trade Hannebery a year early as he is FA next year, Bird would be a useful midfielder for a side like us. I like Anderson at Hawthorn too, but some those guys are not big name quick fixes. Anyone who is will either require a lot of cap money or our first rounder + maybe more in a good trade.

 

[Stan The Caddy]

If we cant get Danger or Scooter then Shiel or Treloar would be obvious targets (although both would cost us a lot). Crozier or Sheridan will leave Freo (ideally I would target Weller but they wont release him), Sydney will lose a midfielder, we should be targeting Mitchell but he is contracted, clubs will try to convince them to trade Hannebery a year early as he is FA next year, Bird would be a useful midfielder for a side like us. I like Anderson at Hawthorn too, but some those guys are not big name quick fixes. Anyone who is will either require a lot of cap money or our first rounder + maybe more in a good trade.

I'd like us to enquire about George Hewitt from the Swans at the end of this season.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

If we cant get Danger or Scooter then Shiel or Treloar would be obvious targets (although both would cost us a lot). Crozier or Sheridan will leave Freo (ideally I would target Weller but they wont release him), Sydney will lose a midfielder, we should be targeting Mitchell but he is contracted, clubs will try to convince them to trade Hannebery a year early as he is FA next year, Bird would be a useful midfielder for a side like us. I like Anderson at Hawthorn too, but some those guys are not big name quick fixes. Anyone who is will either require a lot of cap money or our first rounder + maybe more in a good trade.

Out of those in bold, who would you take in order of preference? and how do they look compared to the GWS boys and Hewitt that STC mentioned? I know a bit about Mitchell, but not the others.

If Motlop does go (don't think he will) should look at Mots compo (hope a first rounder) and our first rounder for Hannebery if he's really wanting to leave.

Danger + Hanners would give us a premiership quality midfield. (can only dream)

 

[Pure_Ownage]

Out of those in bold, who would you take in order of preference? and how do they look compared to the GWS boys and Hewitt that STC mentioned? I know a bit about Mitchell, but not the others.

If Motlop does go (don't think he will) should look at Mots compo (hope a first rounder) and our first rounder for Hannebery if he's really wanting to leave.

Danger + Hanners would give us a premiership quality midfield. (can only dream)

I am torn on Hannebery-I know people who went to school with him and he was an absolute idiot, some of the stuff he got up to cant be posted in public so unless he has matured I am not a fan. But on the other hand he is FA next year and an absolute gun player and the Swans must be near the cap limit so they would know full well they cant match a deal next year so are better off trading a year early if he wants to go.

On the rest I would take Mitchell first, I was talking about trading a first rounder for him long before he got back in the afl side at sydney, then Crozier who I think is extremely gettable for a 2nd rounder etc. Bird is not someone I would go out of my way to chase but he would help block Selwood's tagger well, he is disciplined at that.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

I am torn on Hannebery-I know people who went to school with him and he was an absolute idiot, some of the stuff he got up to cant be posted in public so unless he has matured I am not a fan. But on the other hand he is FA next year and an absolute gun player and the Swans must be near the cap limit so they would know full well they cant match a deal next year so are better off trading a year early if he wants to go.

On the rest I would take Mitchell first, I was talking about trading a first rounder for him long before he got back in the afl side at sydney, then Crozier who I think is extremely gettable for a 2nd rounder etc. Bird is not someone I would go out of my way to chase but he would help block Selwood's tagger well, he is disciplined at that.

Thanks for the info. Didn't know that about Hannebery, but I'm sure most if not all clubs have one like that on the list.

Yes Mitchell is one I would like to chase, so hope he is on the radar.

 

[catempire]

Wouldn't surprise me if Hannebery goes to Hawthorn as FA end 2016. They will have cap room and retirements then.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

may have to put up with what we have got and trust our recruiting team & coaches have the ability to turn their careers around like Bomber Thompson and co did with the likes of Bartel, Johnson, Ablett or Corey before they eventually became elite 5, 6 years later down the track.

Who are our equivalent youngsters that will be in their prime together like those guys? Duncan. Caddy, ????, ???? , ???? (Ling), Selwood.

The rest are miles away and I don't think Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor and Clark (next group in line to retire) can wait for JJ, Gore, Lang to enter prime.

 

[WWSD]

If Geelong can land one of Dangerfield or Scott Selwood, that would be a massive signing. It takes some of the load off Joel Selwood and it also gives Geelong another player who's about to enter their prime stages of their career, so getting one of Dangerfield or Scott Selwood or even both, would significantly boost Geelong's midfield for another 5-6 more years. The Cats list is still fairly good and there's a lot of good young players coming through Gregson (18) Cockatoo (18) Lang (19) Murdoch (23) Bews (21) Guthrie (22) Caddy (22) Horlin-Smith (22) Walker (22) Kersten (22) Thurlow (21) and Blicavs (24) etc.

One area I think they should look at boosting at the end of the year whether via trade week or Free Agency is the ruck department. If I was Stephen Wells I would look at recruiting Zac Clarke from Fremantle or Tom Nicholls from the Gold Coast Suns. Getting one of those two would ideal and they would fit in nicely in my opinion.

 

[Bobby_]

If I was Stephen Wells I would look at recruiting Zac Clarke from Fremantle or Tom Nicholls from the Gold Coast Suns. Getting one of those two would ideal and they would fit in nicely in my opinion.

you don't rate Stanley as a designated ruckman?

 

[WWSD]

you don't rate Stanley as a designated ruckman?

I've watched Stanley play both for the Saints and now Geelong, he's a good competitor, but I don't think he's a natural ruckman, rather more a forward/second ruck.

 

[dazbroncos]

Simpson and HMAC were the #1 ruck options. Can't get and stay on the park.

It sucks and we did well out of the pick we got but it seems, with 20/20 hindsight that Mumford was the one that got away from us.

Go Catters

 

[Go Hoops]

What has my post to do with yours.. ? I mentioned draft picks in the 30's.. you mention Aug for him signing etc.

I assumed (apparently incorrectly) you were suggesting Motlop for a pick 30 was a possibility.

I get it's a speculative thread but some of the stuff goes way past speculation. Not directed at you.

 

[Turbocat]

I assumed (apparently incorrectly) you were suggesting Motlop for a pick 30 was a possibility.

I get it's a speculative thread but some of the stuff goes way past speculation. Not directed at you.

What I was alluding to was the pick used to draft Motlop P39 2008 draft.

 

[MoggsCreek]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-03/tarrant-could-be-set-to-leave-roos
"Injuries have limited Tarrant to 46 games since he was taken by North with pick No.15 in the 2007 national draft, but the 26-year-old has been a revelation since shifting to the backline this season."
"The Brisbane Lions and Western Bulldogs are two teams actively in the market for key-position players, while Carlton, Fremantle, Adelaide, St Kilda and Geelong are among a raft of other clubs investigating trade and free agency options to shore up their spines."

Obviously we are linked to Henderson, but unlike Henderson, Tarrant is in form this year and playing down back. Tarrant is a bit older, but cheaper and has the benefit of being a unrestricted FA, so no trading. I'm not saying I'm keen on the idea, but surely the club should have a look.

 

[catempire]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-03/tarrant-could-be-set-to-leave-roos
"Injuries have limited Tarrant to 46 games since he was taken by North with pick No.15 in the 2007 national draft, but the 26-year-old has been a revelation since shifting to the backline this season."
"The Brisbane Lions and Western Bulldogs are two teams actively in the market for key-position players, while Carlton, Fremantle, Adelaide, St Kilda and Geelong are among a raft of other clubs investigating trade and free agency options to shore up their spines."

Obviously we are linked to Henderson, but unlike Henderson, Tarrant is in form this year and playing down back. Tarrant is a bit older, but cheaper and has the benefit of being a unrestricted FA, so no trading. I'm not saying I'm keen on the idea, but surely the club should have a look.

I'm against recruiting players who have such injury histories given our current predicament and recent history.

 

[BIGANT]

The only curve in a Caddy type situation is he wanted back to Vic... so several clubs fitted the criteria. Can we say that for Motlop ..who knows

Exactly, as mots is from darwin.....so it's a matter if he wants to stay in vic or go to the warmer climates of qunsdlnd/w.a or adl where his brother daniel is ? Or maybe he might do a tippet and fool us all....

 

[MoggsCreek]

I'm against recruiting players who have such injury histories given our current predicament and recent history.

But if we are delisting Mcintosh, who will be our ex-North Melbourne long-term injury player? Delaney has shown potential in the role, but what if he recovers?

 

[Lana]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-03/tarrant-could-be-set-to-leave-roos
"Injuries have limited Tarrant to 46 games since he was taken by North with pick No.15 in the 2007 national draft, but the 26-year-old has been a revelation since shifting to the backline this season."
"The Brisbane Lions and Western Bulldogs are two teams actively in the market for key-position players, while Carlton, Fremantle, Adelaide, St Kilda and Geelong are among a raft of other clubs investigating trade and free agency options to shore up their spines."

Obviously we are linked to Henderson, but unlike Henderson, Tarrant is in form this year and playing down back. Tarrant is a bit older, but cheaper and has the benefit of being a unrestricted FA, so no trading. I'm not saying I'm keen on the idea, but surely the club should have a look.

The right kind of player, the wrong kind of injury history and not for 450K per year.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

If Geelong can land one of Dangerfield or Scott Selwood, that would be a massive signing. It takes some of the load off Joel Selwood and it also gives Geelong another player who's about to enter their prime stages of their career, so getting one of Dangerfield or Scott Selwood or even both, would significantly boost Geelong's midfield for another 5-6 more years. The Cats list is still fairly good and there's a lot of good young players coming through Gregson (18) Cockatoo (18) Lang (19) Murdoch (23) Bews (21) Guthrie (22) Caddy (22) Horlin-Smith (22) Walker (22) Kersten (22) Thurlow (21) and Blicavs (24) etc.

One area I think they should look at boosting at the end of the year whether via trade week or Free Agency is the ruck department. If I was Stephen Wells I would look at recruiting Zac Clarke from Fremantle or Tom Nicholls from the Gold Coast Suns. Getting one of those two would ideal and they would fit in nicely in my opinion.

Can Clarke or Nicholls actually hold down a number 1 spot though or are they more number 2 rucks? Because we have 3 of them on our list and we need a competent number 1.