List Mgmt. 2016 general list discussion and speculation (cont in Pt.2)

[catman54]

Apart from danger, I think the club should be setting a high priority on luring Carlisle.

I think Carlisle is a lot more 'getable' than people think. He is being forced to play in a position he dislikes (prefers KPD), is out of contract, is rumoured to be fed up with the bombers dramas. Go read the Dons board, they all think he is playing like he is gone.

A few reasons why I would trade our first pick (10-12) for Carlisle:

- Carlisle is far superior to Henderson (and I rate Henderson) as a key defender. And along with Talia, probably the best key defender in the AFL, when played there.

- whilst Henderson is more suited to CHB, Carlisle is more suited to FB, and to be played on the oppositions biggest and best forward. Geelong are in desperate need for this type of key defender with lonergan almost gone and with us having ZERO options coming through on the list. (Kolo to replace rivers as a third tall, Taylor can still play 3 more seasons at CHB).

- is 197cm and can pinch hit in the forward line if required.

- is very young still at 23 and would be part of our next premiership team. Will have 7 solid years partnering kolo in our defence.

- with impending retirements, I think we will have the cap room for him, even after danger (hopefully).

- also, I think dons would accept our first, which is a fair price for both teams. Pick 10-12 is too much for hendo and would be an overpayment outright, and I doubt Carlton would throw something back. In other words, we will have an inequitable pick for hendo, but a good pick for Carlisle whilst other Carlisle suitors (dogs, bris etc) have a pick that is either to high or too low. We are best placed to satisfy the bombers.

Carlisle would set up our defence for the next decade. We have neglected to rebuild our key defensive stocks in our transition but this would make amends. Our back 6 could look like this for the next decade:

FB. Kolo. Carlisle. Bews
HB. Thurlow. Taylor. Guthrie

That would be the best defence in the AFL.

After danger, this must be our next priority. If Carlisle chooses not to come, we must go for hendo.

Will all depend on what the doctors are saying about Delaney, listening to C Scott yesterday he believes if Delaney can get fir he is definitely an Afl player, I suggest that would be at full back. I expect the club to go all out for two midfielders this year as that has been our biggest area of loss from our glory days, and continues to be our biggest issue today. The players we have recruited over the past couple of years will be good in 3 years time but cannot carry the midfield load right now.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Carlisle is a gun, no doubt. I just don't think 23 year olds that good are realistically gettable. Essendon will work something out.

and not to mention he plays for Essendon, notoriously the hardest team to trade with.

 

[Lana]

Can you see Freo letting him go? Not with Sandilands getting on in years. It'd be lovely if we could pull him out from under Lyon's nose, though. (Have I said how much I dislike RL?)

I wouldn't target him, the marginal benefit he would provide would be a lot less than the cost to get him. I also can't see them letting him go.

 

[Teriyakicat]

and not to mention he plays for Essendon, notoriously the hardest team to trade with.

Sounds like Carlisle is happy to stay at the Bombers- but is hedging his bets, putting off talks until the end of the season.
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-06-04/carlisle-puts-off-contract-talks-to-focus-on-his-footy

 

[Teriyakicat]

I wouldn't target him, the marginal benefit he would provide would be a lot less than the cost to get him. I also can't see them letting him go.

I thought he was out of contract. Doesn't that mean he can choose to leave, meaning that Freo might take what they can get or they get nothing if he walks? I may be getting mixed up with another player who is OOC, so ignore that if I've got it wrong.

 

[Lana]

I thought he was out of contract. Doesn't that mean he can choose to leave, meaning that Freo might take what they can get or they get nothing if he walks? I may be getting mixed up with another player who is OOC, so ignore that if I've got it wrong.

In theory but he'd be chased by more then us, I'd think a pick in the 20s would be the very cheapest(if it was just us after him). And the difference in performance between him and Stanley isn't that much.

 

[vinum coupe]

I'd actually contemplate letting everyone slide.
Including Danger.

The only problem is using our salary cap.
I'd rather see 8 out, and 8 kids in. And just hope 3 develop into gold.

 

[CharacterFirst]

Be lucky to get one of those... you will not get both.

I think its about right, and I think we could get it.

We may only get one of the two, but if he is going to walk, we better take what's best. If he wants to stay and we are in the position of strength, we go for a first rounder and a player.

Its simple. You asked what I would trade him for, I would trade him for that.

 

[bulletproof]

I'd actually contemplate letting everyone slide.
Including Danger.

The only problem is using our salary cap.
I'd rather see 8 out, and 8 kids in. And just hope 3 develop into gold.

Agree to a point, but I think Dangerfield is a special case as he is still quite young and we most likely wont lose a draft pick for him.

Other than that I would focus on the draft.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I wouldn't target him, the marginal benefit he would provide would be a lot less than the cost to get him. I also can't see them letting him go.

I know Geelong went hard at Clarke the last time he was out of contract (2013) and tried again last year (which is partly why there was talk about Clarke being traded but it never went anywhere). However he's not a free agent until next year and with us having traded a similar player if for a first rounder last year I am not sure it's something we would or should do this year.

I also doubt Freo would move him this year unless they get Berger, otherwise they would back themselves in to retain him when he is up for FA.

 

[Pure_Ownage]

I'd actually contemplate letting everyone slide.
Including Danger.

The only problem is using our salary cap.
I'd rather see 8 out, and 8 kids in. And just hope 3 develop into gold.

In general I am a draft fan obviously but if you can get a player of Dangerfield's calibre without trading draft picks then you would be crazy not to do it. Apart from the top echelon player ability, the kids could learn a lot from him. If you have to trade heaps of assets to get him then different story, but as FA good get.

 

[Turbocat]

In general I am a draft fan obviously but if you can get a player of Dangerfield's calibre without trading draft picks then you would be crazy not to do it. Apart from the top echelon player ability, the kids could learn a lot from him. If you have to trade heaps of assets to get him then different story, but as FA good get.

As much as the Dogs and the Saints are showing great promise... the jury is still out that they have the right mix long term. Im not convinced(unless you have a tidal wave of picks like GWS) that gutting our list and leaving a heap of spots for kids is the right way for the CLUB. I have no issue with adding some mid 20 types , especially if they are quality... my only mild gripe atm , is I'd like to see a few more of our young guys get a run. If we can not win it this year , then to me we should be a little more focused on who will be here in 3 or 4 years time. Not total focus.. just a little more focused.

 

[Teriyakicat]

As much as the Dogs and the Saints are showing great promise... the jury is still out that they have the right mix long term. Im not convinced(unless you have a tidal wave of picks like GWS) that gutting our list and leaving a heap of spots for kids is the right way for the CLUB. I have no issue with adding some mid 20 types , especially if they are quality... my only mild gripe atm , is I'd like to see a few more of our young guys get a run. If we can not win it this year , then to me we should be a little more focused on who will be here in 3 or 4 years time. Not total focus.. just a little more focused.

You want a 'few more' of our young guys getting a run, Turbo? Do you want more young players in each game or do you think they should rotate through and give each other a break? i.e. do you think we have a fairly good balance of experienced vs inexperienced players at the moment?

Also, right at this very point in time, we have Cockatoo, Kolo, GHS, Blease, Jansen fit and not playing seniors, with JJ saying he thinks he needs a bit more VFL time to get himself right, after returning from injury- and Cockatoo returning from injury this week. Oh, and GHS had a groin problem only a couple of weeks ago. There really is not a lot of choice there, for the MC to play these boys.

 

[Turbocat]

You want a 'few more' of our young guys getting a run, Turbo? Do you want more young players in each game or do you think they should rotate through and give each other a break? i.e. do you think we have a fairly good balance of experienced vs inexperienced players at the moment?

Also, right at this very point in time, we have Cockatoo, Kolo, GHS, Blease, Jansen fit and not playing seniors, with JJ saying he thinks he needs a bit more VFL time to get himself right, after returning from injury- and Cockatoo returning from injury this week. Oh, and GHS had a groin problem only a couple of weeks ago. There really is not a lot of choice there, for the MC to play these boys.

I can see the injury list , and yes we have guys like LAng and Gregson playing who are under the 20 games... but its more about type. We have seen plenty of young mids this year , and we enjoying the work and patience we put into Guthrie , Thurlow etc. Bews has shown he was ready to play.. , and perhaps he is a good example. He played 7 games last year and that put a good foundation into him , so basically he was almost ready to be a regular this year.
So even with all you say , id like to see them get some games into the players that we have yet to see , especially in the areas that we have failed to groom. So Jansen and Lux would be good but Kolo even better. Not saying we have a balanced side , I doubt we can get that with so many injuries..just would like to see another couple of debutantes i guess

 

[Teriyakicat]

I can see the injury list , and yes we have guys like LAng and Gregson playing who are under the 20 games... but its more about type. We have seen plenty of young mids this year , and we enjoying the work and patience we put into Guthrie , Thurlow etc. Bews has shown he was ready to play.. , and perhaps he is a good example. He played 7 games last year and that put a good foundation into him , so basically he was almost ready to be a regular this year.
So even with all you say , id like to see them get some games into the players that we have yet to see , especially in the areas that we have failed to groom. So Jansen and Lux would be good but Kolo even better. Not saying we have a balanced side , I doubt we can get that with so many injuries..just would like to see another couple of debutantes i guess

Yeah, Bews was definitely ready to play skill-wise last year but he has mentioned that he wasn't fit enough to play more games than what he did. That's a shame because we really were crying out for someone of his calibre last season, weren't we?

I agree with you about Kolo- the sooner we get him in the team, the better. Hopefully we can convince him to stay at the GFC and not feel a pull to go and play with his brother. The young guys are all pretty honest about where they're at- the club has left them in no doubt as to what they need to work on, in order to be playing senior footy.

I understand that Luxford is a hard worker like Blicavs, with extremely good skills- he just needs to learn how to apply them. Can't wait to see any of those that you mentioned get a game, actually.

 

[Jimmy Yamazaki]

Need big bodied mature mids, things aren't going to improve until we fix this. KPD/Ruck won't do shit if we don't fix the hole around Selwood.

 

[Claude Balls]

Tom Mitchell from the Swans? Has anybody mentioned him yet in this thread as a possible trade (haven't bothered to trawl through). Tough, can rack it up, and they will surely lose one or two players to the cap. Depending on how he finishes off this year and what our first round pick looks like, he could be one to target. Probably this sort of things depends largely on our own cap, subject to Hawkins, Motlop, Danger etc.

 

[manboob]

Tom Mitchell from the Swans? Has anybody mentioned him yet in this thread as a possible trade (haven't bothered to trawl through). Tough, can rack it up, and they will surely lose one or two players to the cap.

Only 100,000,000 times. Consensus is we are behind many clubs in terms of what we can pay him and what we can trade for him (if he even wants to leave!)

 

[Vdubs]

I'd actually contemplate letting everyone slide.
Including Danger.

The only problem is using our salary cap.
I'd rather see 8 out, and 8 kids in. And just hope 3 develop into gold.

My thoughts exactly

 

[Vdubs]

Hypothetical-
Bartel and GHS are ready for selection this week.
Who misses out?
Imo, Lang , Murdoch, & Gregson need to be persisted with.
Does GHS get back in? He has a LT contract, and many assume Lang is a potential to make way, but I don't see it.
Easily, Luxford would be the casualty this week, but....

 

[Jon Douglas]

Bartel today said he would like to be back in 2 weeks for Enright's 300 th but if not after the bye in 4 weeks.

But as you have written the young guys need be persisted with. Rest Enright after his 300 th and then rest Kelly, Stokes and some older guys to keep the youngsters in. Plus the youngsters will need be rested for a week here and there - it can be managed I reckon so it works for the team and young guys.

 

[Vdubs]

Bartel today said he would like to be back in 2 weeks for Enright's 300 th but if not after the bye in 4 weeks.

But as you have written the young guys need be persisted with. Rest Enright after his 300 th and then rest Kelly, Stokes and some older guys to keep the youngsters in. Plus the youngsters will need be rested for a week here and there - it can be managed I reckon so it works for the team and young guys.

We could always manage Boris to coincide with Bartel's return???

 

[Lana]

Hypothetical-
Bartel and GHS are ready for selection this week.
Who misses out?
Imo, Lang , Murdoch, & Gregson need to be persisted with.
Does GHS get back in? He has a LT contract, and many assume Lang is a potential to make way, but I don't see it.
Easily, Luxford would be the casualty this week, but....

In Stanley, Bartel
Out Lux, Kersten
Horlin-Smith stays in the VFL for now

Walker to CHF to be replaced by Clark
Bartel is the third tall

 

[Go Hoops]

Agree to a point, but I think Dangerfield is a special case as he is still quite young and we most likely wont lose a draft pick for him.

Other than that I would focus on the draft.

I'd like the 6ft 6in mobile defender from Carlton as our back half are ageing. In preference to Dangerfield.

 

[Vdubs]

In Stanley, Bartel
Out Lux, Kersten
Horlin-Smith stays in the VFL for now

Walker to CHF to be replaced by Clark
Bartel is the third tall

Now you have all of Stanley, Clark and Walker. Don't get your Walker/Clark scenario, but agree with the rest.