Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[Cataholic]

Possibly, you could be right

Not allowing emotion to cloud one's posting when so passionate and convinced about a particular point of view is hard, especially when met with equally adamant counter-argument.

But doing so creates intelligent, reasoned, interesting discussions, especially if both sides keep their minds open, even if just a little.

 

[sauron256]

Not allowing emotion to cloud one's posting when so passionate and convinced about a particular point of view is hard, especially when met with equally adamant counter-argument.

But doing so creates intelligent, reasoned, interesting discussions, especially if both sides keep their minds open, even if just a little.

Pfft what an idiot.



To BlightysCat's credit he has acknowledged he was wrong about Blitz. He's just preparing for another mea culpa when we win another premiership.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

He wasn't the architect Malthouse's forward press and Clarko's cluster were both based on that principle ie. Scoring from forcing turnovers.

Hawthorn play Gunston and Roughhead as 'tall' forwards but both are only 193cm and are extremely athletic and versatile but most of the time they just play Gunston up there alone with a bunch of smalls and midsize players like Cyril, Breust, Puopolo, surrounding him, where as we have played Tom Hawkins, Walker, and Kersten most of the year up forward and two of them are 196/7 cm respectively and weigh 100 kgs or more meaning they're pretty hopeless once the ball hits the ground and provide next to no forward pressure.

When you lose to Melbourne without Hogan and St Kilda without Armitage and Dempster with nothing to play for then something's gone wrong and that is the players not showing intensity or the discipline to stick to the game-plan which is the coaches fault whether you want to admit it or not. Obviously we've simply been beaten by better sides this year at times but we've also lost games we should've won with finals on the line playing terrible footy lacking discipline and direction.

He was the architect of the outside ring of pressure and your point was that he isn't keeping up with the modern game, so regardless of him being the architect this is clearly false.

We don't have good tall agile forwards , are you suggesting we don't play Hawkins ? Kerstin has been given games and hasn't done all that much , we also don't have quality small forwards like they do.Its stupid to ask Scott to get us to play like Hawthorn because we simply don't have the players.

I agree we should of won , but every coach in the history of the game has coached a side to a loss in a game they should of won. Its normal for unexpected losses to happen for sides who are rebuilding like we are.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Not allowing emotion to cloud one's posting when so passionate and convinced about a particular point of view is hard, especially when met with equally adamant counter-argument.

But doing so creates intelligent, reasoned, interesting discussions, especially if both sides keep their minds open, even if just a little.

Believe me mate, I'm finding it a little harder on that front the last couple of days. I expect criticism for Jim based off Saturday but it has been difficult not to snap given some are blowing with the wind about senior players and waiver based off if they play well or not on the given week.

I love all the over 30 players, I really do as most of us do, they're the guys who've given us the ultimate joy and it's hard to sit here and say Stokesy's time is up for example.

I agree with Kelly staying but as I said I have it on fairly good authority that he most likely doesn't want to play on next year.

See I know Jim has been copping some flak and I'm not saying he's staying as he's in career best form, he's not, I'm basing it purely off likely outs vs ins and I think given Cook flagged not all will go at once that he should get one more year. He is still capable of contributing however as Kelly is imo and I think a lot of this stems from our ruck woes. With a thin midfield and average rucks we can't afford for Duncan to be out, ditto Kelly and having Jimmy as the 7th defender could very well be a defensive tactic to stop scores against given he may not trust us to win the ball often enough.

That's not Jimmy's fault. You put Dangerfield and Selwood Jr in that midfield and we'll start to win more of our own ball and we won't see Bartel or kelly behind the ball anywhere near as often.

As for the two of them they split some key areas but we'll leave it for other to judge who's producing well enough

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/...id1=493&tid2=10&pid2=239&type=A&fid1=S&fid2=S

 

[Partridge]

I'm not saying that. I think Bartel, Stokes, Rivers (who retired today), and maybe Kelly are done. Johnson, Enright, Mackie, and Lonergan deserve at least one more season.

I think one or both of Bartel and Kelly will survive. My concern is where to play either. I'm not convinced either are viable midfield options for 2016.

 

[BlightysCats]

He was the architect of the outside ring of pressure and your point was that he isn't keeping up with the modern game, so regardless of him being the architect this is clearly false.

We don't have good tall agile forwards , are you suggesting we don't play Hawkins ? Kerstin has been given games and hasn't done all that much , we also don't have quality small forwards like they do.Its stupid to ask Scott to get us to play like Hawthorn because we simply don't have the players.

I agree we should of won , but every coach in the history of the game has coached a side to a loss in a game they should of won. Its normal for unexpected losses to happen for sides who are rebuilding like we are.

Ok here we go....
number 1.
Your point about him being the architect of a turnover based game plan was completely wrong and I proved it only for you to now say he was the architect of the outside ring? WTF? The outside ring ha, ha what a load of rubbish. Our 2011 game plan was based on sitting back setting up defensive zones pressing up on the opposition as they came forward then counter attacking quickly using as few numbers as possible going through the midfiled to move it long so that if we were caught out with a turnover we still had a strong defensive structure in place, then we'd bomb it long to usually a two or 3 man forward line consisting of either Hawk, Pods, Ottens, SJ, or Varcoe. in different combinations.

Number 2. We should've been playing only Hawkins/Walker deep forward then having Kersten (who's often been leading up well) Cocky, SJ, Lang and maybe Gregson up there and our mids actually looking for lead up targets down forward instead of relentlessly bombing it long (surely they would've stopped doing that by now if Scott had told them not to). I personally would've hardly had Walker and Hawkins in the same forward line rather Hawk or Walker resting on the bench while the other takes the big tall forward role for a bit.

 

[worldlylizard19]

I see his very worst case as finished in 2017 with no extension and having finished clearing out the old guys for the next coach. He did okay when he had the cattle in 2011. Since then he hasn't really had the cattle except in 2013 until Simpson got injured then it was over.

It takes 5-6 years to really build a list and his contract ends 6 years after making the most of bombers list. His plan is to base a team around Selwood, hawkins and Taylor. To do this he needs to fix the list imbalance of mostly oldies and kids. If the post season goes as what is being predicted Dangerfield, Selwood, Henderson and a ruckman in, 6-7 out comprising of oldies, chronically injured, no hopers like Blease and the already departed in Hartman. Than the currently imbalanced list has been patched majorly. A strong 2016 will see a contract extension to see what he can do with his list. A poor 2016 will result in a lot of pressure for 2017. Following a poor 2016, a poor 2017 will result in a new coach, which would be 7 years of Scott not exactly knee jerk reaction stuff.

His future relies majorly on this trade period. If we fail to get our targets we get worse over the next 2 years instead of improving and he goes.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

I think one or both of Bartel and Kelly will survive. My concern is where to play either. I'm not convinced either are viable midfield options for 2016.

I think Lyon (Garry) summed it up well, that for the lesser sides Jimmy will still be a handful, the advantage he has over Kelly is he can play forward too.

 

[Partridge]

I think Lyon (Garry) summed it up well, that for the lesser sides Jimmy will still be a handful, the advantage he has over Kelly is he can play forward too.

He can, and I wish he was used there a lot more.

 

[Vdubs]

I think Lyon (Garry) summed it up well, that for the lesser sides Jimmy will still be a handful, the advantage he has over Kelly is he can play forward too.

Whereas Kelly can tag and play defence.

 

[iameviljez]

Whereas Kelly can tag and play defence.

It's interesting to see how their careers panned out. Back when they first started, Jimmy was the hard head in the middle and Pops was the dashing, pacy smooth mover. I think the broken leg he copped might have just taken the top off what his potential really was as a footballer, and so he doesn't quite get spoken about in the same breath as Bartel, SJ or Ablett.

 

[Vdubs]

It's interesting to see how their careers panned out. Back when they first started, Jimmy was the hard head in the middle and Pops was the dashing, pacy smooth mover. I think the broken leg he copped might have just taken the top off what his potential really was as a footballer, and so he doesn't quite get spoken about in the same breath as Bartel, SJ or Ablett.

True. But over their careers, I would have them as equal players, JK, and JB. GAJ, way ahead, SJ next.
The last few years since Bartel has dropped off in potency with marking, and his MF prowess has gone, Kelly at least has maintained an excellence in competitiveness, tackling, accountability.
Anyway, they have both been stars, and now they are not.
Pity one of them will hang around next year and further dilute what has been a stellar career.
Unless we can afford to plonk Bartel as a permanent HFF.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

True. But over their careers, I would have them as equal players, JK, and JB. GAJ, way ahead, SJ next.

Surely Joel Corey has to be in that discussion somewhere?

 

[BlightysCats]

Can we please keep the discussion about Chris Scott guys, otherwise take it over to the James Kelly thread

 

[Vdubs]

Can we please keep the discussion about Chris Scott guys, otherwise take it over to the James Kelly thread

Isn't it great that Chris Scott has coached Corey, Bartel, Ablett, and Kelly.

 

[Live in hope]

Chris should keep his job till 2017. Reason - has had a 80/20 or maybe 90/10 getting the best out of the list that he had at the time, taking account of quality, experience and health.
- 2011 had a great side with few injuries - needed to finish 1 or 2 and finished 1.
- 2012-2014, great H&A seasons but lousy finals - could still argue 80/20 score when take account of ageing list, few high draft picks, need to send off champs with dignity and mounting injuries. (Only Two criticisms from this period - see below)
- 2015 - managed transition well against staggering injury toll. Missing the finals could pull this back to a 80/20 from a 90/10 in my view.

Only 2 criticisms and both from the 2012 to 2014
- tactically relied too much on Geelong's 2007-2012 one dimensional play on style. Cost us massively in big turn around games like Lions last year.Also looked a bit silly with the infamous "mission accomplished", when plainly it wasn't.
- not getting more games into youngsters last year, IMO. Was a little too focused on a possible GF and put development back half a season for some players.

Big test will be next two years with talented youngsters and some very good mid twenty something 150 plus gamers courtesy of trades (ie. No excuse).

 

[Vdubs]

Surely Joel Corey has to be in that discussion somewhere?

Ablett
Chapman
SJ
Bartel/Corey/Kelly

 

[David the Cat]

Number 2. We should've been playing only Hawkins/Walker deep forward then having Kersten (who's often been leading up well) Cocky, SJ, Lang and maybe Gregson up there and our mids actually looking for lead up targets down forward instead of relentlessly bombing it long (surely they would've stopped doing that by now if Scott had told them not to). I personally would've hardly had Walker and Hawkins in the same forward line rather Hawk or Walker resting on the bench while the other takes the big tall forward role for a bit.

Anyone who wants Walker as a key forward needs their head read.

Walker should be dropped this week...replaced by Menzel......and cut up into little pieces to make french fries.......absolutely useless.

Kersten?...somebody convince me...

 

[BlightysCats]

Anyone who wants Walker as a key forward needs their head read.

Walker should be dropped this week...replaced by Menzel......and cut up into little pieces to make french fries.......absolutely useless.

Kersten?...somebody convince me...

Walker to rest from the ruck down there so we don't have two lumbering giants down there, just one at any time, obviously I agree with your assessment of Walker and wouldn't have Walker in the side if Stanley or Mitch Clark were fit.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Ablett
Chapman
SJ
Bartel/Corey/Kelly

Shows the talent we now miss when Corey can be considered 4th rung

I'd have only Ablett ahead of fwiw. The most underrated as a player and the most underrated player we've lost

 

[Art Vandelay_]

He can, and I wish he was used there a lot more.

I'd love to know why he could be used there in 2014 and now this year he's played majority in the midfield and spurts down back again.

2nd highest goal kicker last season and he hasn't kicked one this season, albeit only played 8-9 games but still. Baffled as to the change of role for him, not so much the midfield bit as at times we've had no midfield depth or team depth to speak of but why back to defence? He wasn't great there in 2013. No clue why Scott has gone back to that role...

 

[Teriyakicat]

Ha, Ha, yeah exactly! Never the messiahs fault.

Get a room, you two!

 

[Teriyakicat]

I think Lyon (Garry) summed it up well, that for the lesser sides Jimmy will still be a handful, the advantage he has over Kelly is he can play forward too.

Where did Jimmy play vs Swans and how did he go?

And wasn't St Kilda a "lesser side"?

 

[Teriyakicat]

Anyone who wants Walker as a key forward needs their head read.

Walker should be dropped this week...replaced by Menzel......and cut up into little pieces to make french fries.......absolutely useless.

Kersten?...somebody convince me...

French fries? Totally useless? Oh boy!!!

Maybe Kersten could be chopped up and made into a side salad?

 

[David the Cat]

totally frustrated with Walker.....shows something one week then useless for the next 4-5 weeks.....does little or nothing.

Kersten looks the goods at times...but doesn't appear to me to get enough of it when the games on the line....

Kersten kicks 5 in the VFL last week...do we give him a run then? Couldn't do much worse...