List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[GordonBlue]

So the highlights of a kid from a amateur under 18 competition in Victoria? I am against trading pick 1 in general but really struggle when people say 'can't trade under any circumstance' Say Treloar and Mccarthy for pick 1 came up then imo we would be stupid not to take it. The list of: Watts 08, Scully 09, Swallow 10, Patton 11 and Whitfield 12 makes me question what is soooo special about pick 1. All of these players were the best players from over the country in their years and from stronger drafts. I wouldn't trade a top 10 pick for any of these players yet at the moment Treloar is worth 2 first rounders and so is McCarthy.

I agree with you re other players, however just want to ask you; have you seen the videos?

Weitering marking from day 1 will be one of the best in the league.

His reading of the play is amazing.

if you haven't, watch them then come back and tell me you would trade it at the right price.

 

[BM123]

We badly need a quality KPD.

Rowe and Jamo are past it and Jaksch is awhile away from been a prominent player in our team.

 

[DangerousD]

Treloar wants to go to Collingwood. That tells me enough about this supposed "huge Carlton fan as a kid".

Tomlinson I'm pretty confident we can get without sacrificing pick #1.

Weitering has a huge upside. We need an outright gun KPD because we haven't had one since Silvagni retired. We can draft a couple of gun mids in next year's draft especially if we're smart enough to get Cats' 2016 1st rounder. I'd also ask for Hawks' 2016 first rounder for Yarran.

Get Lions' second rounder for Bell and use that along with our own 2nd rounder for Tomlinson and Plowman.

If we can walk away with Weitering, Tomlinson, Plowman and Silvagni along with 3 first rounders for next year I'll be as happy as a pig in shit.

It doesn't have to be those two players, i was just wanting people to think about it their own way, it could be another combo, it could be Aish and Mayes from Brisbane, it could be Dixon and Bennel from Gold Coast.

 

[DangerousD]

This argument is a fallacy, unless you are arguing that the first pick in the AFL draft is in fact cursed by witches. In which case, it is no longer a fallacy, it's just silly.

The outcome of previous pick ones has nothing to do with the ones following it.

I hope your joking? 'The outcome of previous pick ones has nothing to do with the ones following it.' Of course it does. It shows quite clearly that 14 years out of 15 that the player taken at pick one hasn't turned out to be the best player in that draft, this is my opinion, yours might be slightly different.

The draft and the numbers in which players are picked are facts, they are indisputable it has happened. Whether you think its a curse or bad luck or a fallacy thats up to you, players scouts can and do a good job at picking the best player at that present moment, but they can't see in to the future and decide why and how some people will continue to develop and some will not.

My point was to highlight that pick 1 is indeed tradeable

 

[DangerousD]

Surely the last three we took at 1, Kreuzer, Gibbs and Murphy, were the best players (or very close to the best).
I'm sure you could probably make an argument, Kreuzer v Cotchin and Murphy v Pendlebury either way, though still Elite players.

Kruz over Dangerfield, Callan Ward, Cotchin and Harry Taylor i doubt but it's hard as he has had injuries. Murphy is not better than pendles in my book but not too far away.

 

[thylacine60]

Pendles is twice the player Murphy is.

 

[DangerousD]

Personally I wouldn't mind Aish especially if he comes for free,just wondering why don't Brizzie don't want to deal with Collingwood in regards Aish?

I think they are just sick of their players deciding it is too hard up there and packing it in after two seasons. It's a risk. They are hoping to make a statement that if you want to leave then fine but you wont get to where you want. It sounds tough but something needs to happen or they will constantly be rebuilding

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Pendles is twice the player Murphy is.

Foolish earthling.

 

[DangerousD]

Not saying that the deal you're proposing isn't tempting, but I would happily burn a top 10 pick for all of those names you mentioned except Watts (though I'd still happily have him on our list).

Does't have to be that deal, it could be any deal you see fit. some seem to be against it even if freo offered us Fyfe and pick 15

 

[LordLucifer]

We badly need a quality KPD.

Rowe and Jamo are past it and Jaksch is awhile away from been a prominent player in our team.

Rowe is, if we are being completely honest, a dud !! A CHF from the SANFL who to his credit, has eked out the best he possibly could of from a limited talent base. He had one solid season when Malthouse first arrived and that can be put down to the coach getting in his head and filling him with confidence and telling him to play to a certain plan. Outside of that, he has been a non-event really.

Jamison is struggling with shoulder problems and is more and more becoming a passenger in the back half because of it. It's not his fault that he is contracted for so long but unless a surgeon can somehow rectify his health issues, he will play out this current contract and that will be the last we see of him.

Jaksch will never ever be a KPD, he's a Jack Gunston third marking forward but just that little bit taller & thinner.

With Henderson about to jump ship, snaffling Weitering with #1 is a priority.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

I agree with you re other players, however just want to ask you; have you seen the videos?

Weitering marking from day 1 will be one of the best in the league.

His reading of the play is amazing.

if you haven't, watch them then come back and tell me you would trade it at the right price.

Yep, 2 years ago he was 1AW lurking around the midfield, then sprouted 5cm and added 8kilos and went KP.

One on one, he'll take most, got hands like baseball mitts.

In the hurly-burly of pack AFL footy........that remains to be seen.

Still backing him in.

 

[DangerousD]

Absolutely NO.

Why would a team that finished last trade next years first pick ever. Maybe we improve and that will be fantastic but it is likely we are giving up a top 3 pick.
Treloar is an A grade player and would improve our list, but why spend overs ($ salary) and a likely top 3 pick next year.
We have to draft top end talent.

ummm because Treloar is top end a grade talent. If next year is a draft full of mids then the only question is, is Treloar better than the best mid from that years draft? I'd say yes because Treloar is a star, his numbers at the moment blitz nearly all mids before him, without being exact i think he is only 1 of 4 to have averaged over 25 possessions in his first 50 games.

 

[ferrisb]

This argument is a fallacy, unless you are arguing that the first pick in the AFL draft is in fact cursed by witches. In which case, it is no longer a fallacy, it's just silly.

The outcome of previous pick ones has nothing to do with the ones following it.

Disagree Shan the man.

Pick 1 more often than not doesn't deliver you the best kid from the draft. And it's not bad luck. All it does is give you the best chance of selecting the best kid.

In a field of 80, the favourite won't win very often (even if it wins more often than any other individual pick).

Not saying palm off weitering, but using pick 1 on a known top shelf talent is a surer bet than using it on the highest rated 17yo each year. It's like being able to draft in hindsight.

 

[mediumsizered]

I hope your joking? 'The outcome of previous pick ones has nothing to do with the ones following it.' Of course it does. It shows quite clearly that 14 years out of 15 that the player taken at pick one hasn't turned out to be the best player in that draft, this is my opinion, yours might be slightly different.

The draft and the numbers in which players are picked are facts, they are indisputable it has happened. Whether you think its a curse or bad luck or a fallacy thats up to you, players scouts can and do a good job at picking the best player at that present moment, but they can't see in to the future and decide why and how some people will continue to develop and some will not.

My point was to highlight that pick 1 is indeed tradeable

You may not be guaranteed the best player with pick 1, but you are pretty much guaranteed a 200 game player. Once you start working your way down the draft order that becomes less & less likely.

Murphy may be shadowed by Pendles (not by much), but he is still a champion. Gibbs may not be as good as Selwood, but he is still a bloody good player. Deledio may have been overshadowed by Roughead & Franklin, but he has still been fantastic for the Tigers etc etc.

 

[LordLucifer]

Pendles is twice the player Murphy is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_AFL_draft

With the value of hindsight, looking at that draft, if you were in the Blues shoes, would you have taken Pendles instead of Murph ??

 

[DangerousD]

I agree with you re other players, however just want to ask you; have you seen the videos?

Weitering marking from day 1 will be one of the best in the league.

His reading of the play is amazing.

if you haven't, watch them then come back and tell me you would trade it at the right price.

To answer your question, no, i haven't seen the videos and i don't think you need to, as all the videos are against players his age who by all accounts are in the weakest draft there has ever been. Im not saying he wont be great, he might be, but what i was trying to put across was, dont put your head in the sand, ignore all options and believe that just because this kid is pick 1 it will mean he will end up the best player in the draft. To trade the pick the deal would have to be special.

 

[ferrisb]

You may not be guaranteed the best player with pick 1, but you are pretty much guaranteed a 200 game player. Once you start working your way down the draft order that becomes less & less likely.

Murphy may be shadowed by Pendles (not by much), but he is still a champion. Gibbs may not be as good as Selwood, but he is still a bloody good player. Deledio may have been overshadowed by Roughead & Franklin, but he has still been fantastic for the Tigers etc etc.

One of the things I have read about weitering, is that it's not so much that he will be the best player from his draft (although he may well be) but that he is more likely to play 200+ games than any other in the pool.

It's being spruiked that dubya is about as bankable pick as they come, especially for a KPP.

 

[DangerousD]

You may not be guaranteed the best player with pick 1, but you are pretty much guaranteed a 200 game player. Once you start working your way down the draft order that becomes less & less likely.

Murphy may be shadowed by Pendles (not by much), but he is still a champion. Gibbs may not be as good as Selwood, but he is still a bloody good player. Deledio may have been overshadowed by Roughead & Franklin, but he has still been fantastic for the Tigers etc etc.

So whats better, 2x200 game players? (Trelaor and say Tomlinson) or one (Weitering)

 

[Stig O'Hara]

We all went 'Yippee' when we got Whiley and Jaksch...............Jack of all Trades types, Masters of None.

Yeah, give up Pick One for another truckload of GWS off-cuts...........Tomlinson, hear lots about...........the other 4..............whatever.

From the Juniors with SoSoSoS, not sure he should even nominate this year, or even next year, he's F/S so we always get First Choice, He's just way too raw.

 

[Azul]

So whats better, 2x200 game players? (Trelaor and say Tomlinson) or one (Weitering)

Bear in mind the two Adams are each 4 years older than weeties and will have shorter careers.

 

[thylacine60]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2005_AFL_draft

With the value of hindsight, looking at that draft, if you were in the Blues shoes, would you have taken Pendles instead of Murph ??

Heartbeat - and I think about it every time he plays against us.

 

[Blugazi]

One of the things I have read about weitering, is that it's not so much that he will be the best player from his draft (although he may well be) but that he is more likely to play 200+ games than any other in the pool.

It's being spruiked that dubya is about as bankable pick as they come, especially for a KPP.

An excellent point. I don't expect Weitering to be the best player in the draft, but I think he'll be the best fit for Carlton - he fills a need structurally, and has strong leadership skills.

 

[ferrisb]

Heartbeat - and I think about it every time he plays against us.

My 4yo daughter has a song dedication for you..

 

[thylacine60]

Just answering Effendi's question. No regret here.

 

[mediumsizered]

So whats better, 2x200 game players? (Trelaor and say Tomlinson) or one (Weitering)

I would say Weitering is more of a lock to play 200 than Tomlinson.