List Mgmt. 2015 LIST Discussion - trades, free agency etc

[HARKER]

IMPORTANT: This is not a thread to bag players after a game but rather to discuss what we may be looking for, going forward.
It is also not a thread to discuss individual players per se but rather the group as a whole, or at worst a sum of the parts.
In short, what have SOS and Rogers got their eyes trained on for years end, by way of FA, trade, draft?


As it’s showing up, the overall balance of our list is in much better shape than it was a couple of years ago.
We definitely need some more quality across the board but at least we have types that can perform cover for most areas of the ground.
The 2014 to 2015 comparison is based on what we opened up with in 2014 and not the way it finally finished up.
i.e. Rowe was known as a forward at the start of 2014 but is now exclusively a back-man
The listing here is in no way perfect but I’ve just started things off by looking at the way that players may be perceived as.
Given the express need of Mick wanting players to be versatile, who knows where some may find their roles to be by years end.....anyway....


Rucks:
2014: Kreuzer Warnock Wood
2015: Kreuzer Warnock Wood

2015: A young developing ruck-man seems to be a must this year.

Tall Backs:
2014: Jamison Watson Giles
2015: Jamison Rowe Watson Jaksch Giles Fields

2015: With Rowe taking hold of CHB, we just need Jaksch & Giles to be injury free and putting on some extra muscle.
May still be after a big body should one present, though.

Tall Forwards:
2014:Waite Henderson Casboult Rowe
2015: Henderson Casboult Jones Foster

2015: We haven’t lost a lot other than the trade of a 32y.o. for a 24y.o.
Could still do with some extra quality forward though, but where will that come from?

Medium Backs:
2014: Walker Tuohy McInnes Bootsma White Duigan
2015: Tuohy White Sheehan Byrne Viojo-Rainbow Holman Gowers

2015: Pretty happy with what we have here as the Irish boys look likely to come through.

Medium Forwards:
2014: Menzel Everitt Reynolds Holman Johnson Sheehan Byrne
2015: Menzel Walker Johnson Everitt

2015: Can see us looking for another goal-kicker at years end,

Small Backs:
2014: Simpson Docherty Temay Scotland
2015: Simpson Buckley Docherty Smith Yarran

2015: We seem to be in pretty good shape here.
No need for smaller back-men right now even though a couple of these guys may become the outside mids we’ve been after.

Small Forwards:
2014: Garlett Yarran Buckley
2015: Tutt Ellard

2015: What was once a strength, now looks as a weakness. Maybe time to have moved away from the one-dimensional players

Inside Mids:
2014: Judd Murphy McLean Cripps Robinson Graham Bell Ellard
2015: Judd Murphy Gibbs Cripps Graham Whiley Bell Walsh

2015: Still looking a little hungry here and will need replenishing quickly.

Outside Mids:
2014: Thomas Gibbs Lucas
2015: Thomas Boekhorst Russell Dick

2015: We’re still going to need more runners also.

Stoppers:
2014: Carrazzo Curnow Cachia Armfield
2015: Carrazzo Curnow Armfield

2015: All of a sudden we don’t seem to have many dour taggers/stoppers any more.
It may just be the way we’ll go forward with our list.


At this early stage we may be looking for:

1. A young developing ruckman
2. A tall key forward
3. A mid-sized goal-kicking forward.
4. Two quality inside mids
5. Another quality outside mid.

Of course you have to look at everyone available but last year would have taught us that there is a wish list that needs servicing.
Mick got his wants last year but will he get them again this year?

 

[therubbernub]

Smith as a small forward for mine.

 

[chunkylover53]

Thought Jeremias said it was too early for List Management Threads?

Anyway, well written Harks. I've been excited for 2015 but reading through that did bring me back down to earth a little bit. Still in desperate need of some quality across the park, and plenty of kids in there that can still go either way.

Outside class looks shallow, really hoping Boekhorst is ready from the get go.

 

[Big_Luch]

I think we are set for tall forwards personally. If we can upgrade what we have then that's different.

Small forwards who can play midfield is what we need. Noticed last year we got the ball to our key talls but nobody to work at their feet. So the ball exited as quick is it came in..

 

[HARKER]

Anyway, well written Harks. I've been excited for 2015 but reading through that did bring me back down to earth a little bit. Still in desperate need of some quality across the park, and plenty of kids in there that can still go either way.

Outside class looks shallow, really hoping Boekhorst is ready from the get go.

The balance is getting there though.
We can't help that we've got a lot of kids along with several unprovens.

The thing now is that we can actually see construction of a list.
The best 22 is still good but we do need kids taking the next step along with some fresh talent.

 

[zeeCFC]

Did you consult your lawyers on what disclaimers to add to ensure your thread lasts the hour?

Anyway, the scarcity of outside mids is obvious. I personally hope Gowers benefits from a professional environment and can be a consistent contributor high up the ground, that kick and game sense is very valuable.

 

[Penetrator]

Great summary of the list and looks like we have more depth than have had for a number of years. Still about 4 quality players away from being a contender.

Just wonder how the side would look if we had of nailed the first round selections between 2009-2011.

Lucas , Watson , Bootsma replaced with what most arm chair experts had on there wishlist

Talia , Darling , Bradley Hill

Anyhow optimistic for the upcoming season and hopefully most players on the list can go to the next level and we can really surprise the doubters.

 

[HereComesJuddy]

I thought Whiley was not only an inside mid but a stopper. Didn't he do a great job on Pendles?
Ps. Great write up HARKER

 

[gbatman]

Great work Harker.

From what I take from that, if we trade a ruckman we will need to bring one in otherwise that's around the right number, especially with a few part timers on the list. These ruckmen aren't bad players.

Would really like to see some young tall defenders coming on, who knows how much longer Jamison and Rowe will last. Would be great if Giles and Jaksch worked out which they may well do. Watson may be next guy inline which worries me a bit, though Henderson could always go back if there is injury and Watson forward which makes me more comfortable. Jaksch could probably play as a 2nd tall defender against a lot of teams, aren't many with two+ massive forwards.

Tall forwards, it's great to have options but we don't really know if any will be quality yet, you'd hope that a couple of them will really come on and start kicking some decent numbers.

Medium backmen wise I think we are pretty decent, depth and quality looks good here as do the small backs providing we have a guy who can blanket gun small forwards (hoping it's Buckley). Should hopefully be some good skilled quick guys who can beat their man and provide plenty on the attack.

Medium forwards look ok, medium sized quick guys who can mark, kick and crumb and go through the middle, we seem to have a few. Looking very thin on for small forwards, but you don't need many. Tutt may be the answer otherwise we may get enough out of our mid/flanker types.

Inside mid wise well I don't class Bell as one due to his handling, agility and off the mark speed and that he played his best football outside and doesn't play well inside at all. I think there is some reasonable quality there but it's got a bit of age about it now. It would be good to see the quality higher, with a couple of young A graders and to see it run deeper. Outside mids, well there is very little room for purely outside players through the middle, half back/forward is basically the midfield these days and this is where your outside mids sit. Flanks and on the wings and I think that you're missing Walker, Everitt, Yarran, Simpson, Buckley, Docherty as outside mids/flankers. Tagger wise we are fine, probably add Everitt to that list, liked him tagging last season, great ability to hurt his opponent going the other way with his skills.

What we need at this stage could very well change if a lot of these young players start working out.

1. A grade inside midfielder with pace and good disposal and an ability to get high possession counts. Basically a Judd/Dangerfield type. We could actually do with a couple of gun mids but a high possession winning midfielder is what we need. No more slow inside mids who don't offer any carry or good skills or outside ones who can't contest. Middle is where we need to start adding the quality I feel.

2. Forwards both tall and small. Couldn't mark it or crumb/apply pressure up forward at all last year, maybe that will chance but we will see.

3. Up and coming tall backmen. Jamison and Rowe are getting on, who knows how long they will last, would be good to see players like Giles and Jaksch really screaming to hold down one of these positions.

 

[Bluey24]

IMPORTANT: This is not a thread to bag players after a game but rather to discuss what we may be looking for, going forward.
It is also not a thread to discuss individual players per se but rather the group as a whole, or at worst a sum of the parts.
In short, what have SOS and Rogers got their eyes trained on for years end, by way of FA, trade, draft?


As it’s showing up, the overall balance of our list is in much better shape than it was a couple of years ago.
We definitely need some more quality across the board but at least we have types that can perform cover for most areas of the ground.
The 2014 to 2015 comparison is based on what we opened up with in 2014 and not the way it finally finished up.
i.e. Rowe was known as a forward at the start of 2014 but is now exclusively a back-man
The listing here is in no way perfect but I’ve just started things off by looking at the way that players may be perceived as.
Given the express need of Mick wanting players to be versatile, who knows where some may find their roles to be by years end.....anyway....


Rucks:
2014: Kreuzer Warnock Wood
2015: Kreuzer Warnock Wood

2015: A young developing ruck-man seems to be a must this year.

Tall Backs:
2014: Jamison Watson Giles
2015: Jamison Rowe Watson Jaksch Giles Fields

2015: With Rowe taking hold of CHB, we just need Jaksch & Giles to be injury free and putting on some extra muscle.
May still be after a big body should one present, though.

Tall Forwards:
2014:Waite Henderson Casboult Rowe
2015: Henderson Casboult Jones Foster

2015: We haven’t lost a lot other than the trade of a 32y.o. for a 24y.o.
Could still do with some extra quality forward though, but where will that come from?

Medium Backs:
2014: Walker Tuohy McInnes Bootsma White Duigan
2015: Tuohy White Sheehan Byrne Viojo-Rainbow Holman Gowers

2015: Pretty happy with what we have here as the Irish boys look likely to come through.

Medium Forwards:
2014: Menzel Everitt Reynolds Holman Johnson Sheehan Byrne
2015: Menzel Walker Johnson Everitt

2015: Can see us looking for another goal-kicker at years end,

Small Backs:
2014: Simpson Docherty Temay Scotland
2015: Simpson Buckley Docherty Smith Yarran

2015: We seem to be in pretty good shape here.
No need for smaller back-men right now even though a couple of these guys may become the outside mids we’ve been after.

Small Forwards:
2014: Garlett Yarran Buckley
2015: Tutt Ellard

2015: What was once a strength, now looks as a weakness. Maybe time to have moved away from the one-dimensional players

Inside Mids:
2014: Judd Murphy McLean Cripps Robinson Graham Bell Ellard
2015: Judd Murphy Gibbs Cripps Graham Whiley Bell Walsh

2015: Still looking a little hungry here and will need replenishing quickly.

Outside Mids:
2014: Thomas Gibbs Lucas
2015: Thomas Boekhorst Russell Dick

2015: We’re still going to need more runners also.

Stoppers:
2014: Carrazzo Curnow Cachia Armfield
2015: Carrazzo Curnow Armfield

2015: All of a sudden we don’t seem to have many dour taggers/stoppers any more.
It may just be the way we’ll go forward with our list.


At this early stage we may be looking for:

1. A young developing ruckman
2. A tall key forward
3. A mid-sized goal-kicking forward.
4. Two quality inside mids
5. Another quality outside mid.

Of course you have to look at everyone available but last year would have taught us that there is a wish list that needs servicing.
Mick got his wants last year but will he get them again this year?

Great write-up, Harks. Cheers!

Looks to me like we're on track in the talls department. I would also have put Smith in the forward pocket.

I agree with chunky and penetrator, however, in seeing the list laid out like this it shows that we're probably still a few quality players away from being a contender - particularly through the middle of the ground. If we can fill this hole within the next two years, the likes of Gibbs, Murph and Thomas should still be playing good football…

 

[Azul]

2015: A young developing ruck-man seems to be a must this year.

Agreed, but I was saying that the minute we traded Hampson.

May still be after a big body should one present, though.
Could still do with some extra quality forward though, but where will that come from?

We lost Waite but gained 2 talls in trades and 1 in the draft. That's short term pain but overall a net gain. Let's develop our own - Foster. I mean aside from Jaksch, a Jack Gunston type would be handy but realistically it won't happen. Now's not the 'window' to be topping up on the likes of Lake or Frawley either, so fingers crossed on Gilesy.

2015: Can see us looking for another goal-kicker at years end,
2015: What was once a strength, now looks as a weakness. Maybe time to have moved away from the one-dimensional players

Yeah the "amigo" era is well and truly toast.

2015: All of a sudden we don’t seem to have many dour taggers/stoppers any more.
It may just be the way we’ll go forward with our list.

No great hole. Docherty, Buckley, Holman and Whiley all have defensive attributes. I have more confidence in them than AJ and Davies.

Wishlist:

• more midfielders (gimme, gimme, gimme!)
• a genuine ruck prospect (no more Rowe/Casboult/De Luca types)
• Creative small/medium forward(s) with genuine scoring power.
  
• to develop an extra KPP (not confident about Giles and whipping boy Watson)

 

[Jock]

Two super quick skilled mids that can break the lines and goal from 50 on the run and another mid that plays more inside and is a bit harder around the contest. They can take Armfield, Ellards and Watsons spot on the list and balance our list up beautifully.

 

[Blue Ballzzzz]

maybe this is just my opinion and i understand that im new to big footy but i dont feel we need to be too concerned about Jamison and Rowe, they are 28 and 27..i know jamison has had shoulder troubles in the past but (and again im only a novice) i rekon he managed them pretty well last year and i dont think his shoulders are career threatening..i cant see why he cant play to 32...similar thoughts on Rowe, hes yet to have any major injury and again, i cant see why he could play to early 30's.....i think our back line future is possible our strongest area of the list, with the future prospects that we have, we can drip feed the younger guys in whilst managing the older players for hopefully a smooth transition..just an opinion

 

[Big Sim]

maybe this is just my opinion and i understand that im new to big footy but i dont feel we need to be too concerned about Jamison and Rowe, they are 28 and 27..i know jamison has had shoulder troubles in the past but (and again im only a novice) i rekon he managed them pretty well last year and i dont think his shoulders are career threatening..i cant see why he cant play to 32...similar thoughts on Rowe, hes yet to have any major injury and again, i cant see why he could play to early 30's.....i think our back line future is possible our strongest area of the list, with the future prospects that we have, we can drip feed the younger guys in whilst managing the older players for hopefully a smooth transition..just an opinion

Welcome BB, good post and no need to be apologetic about posting an opinion on a forum that is pretty much entirely made up of a collective of opinions and discussions/debates/brawls thereof. Keep up the good work.

 

[HARKER]

I thought Whiley was not only an inside mid but a stopper. Didn't he do a great job on Pendles?

I've only set the table out as a starting point and am happy to change it around before the start of the season once we get a better handle on how Mick may wish to use his troops.
One thing we do know, is that it may not matter where someone has plied their trade, as it may not be where they're seen as best service for the team.

Smith was mostly used as a small defender with stints through the mid-field but could well end up forward.
Viojo-Rainbow ran off the HBF but again may be pushed up the ground.
Whiley, Everitt, Gowers, Byrne and others may well find themselves with new roles also............who knows?

It does though seem as though there has been a change of philosophy in terms of how we target/draft players.
The term needs has many more facets to it than just a football type as character, coachability, strength of will etc seem to have come into play in the past 2 years. I doubt we'll see too many more mentally soft players in the Malthouse tenure, at least.

 

[Deep Blue]

maybe this is just my opinion and i understand that im new to big footy but i dont feel we need to be too concerned about Jamison and Rowe, they are 28 and 27..i know jamison has had shoulder troubles in the past but (and again im only a novice) i rekon he managed them pretty well last year and i dont think his shoulders are career threatening..i cant see why he cant play to 32...similar thoughts on Rowe, hes yet to have any major injury and again, i cant see why he could play to early 30's.....i think our back line future is possible our strongest area of the list, with the future prospects that we have, we can drip feed the younger guys in whilst managing the older players for hopefully a smooth transition..just an opinion

Agree with your thoughts - key is that the backline is more stable now and is reaping the benefits of a core group who are working well together.

 

[therubbernub]

I think with the addition of jaksch, Jones, Foster,
The return of Kreuzer and Giles (hopefully) and,
The continual improvement of Watson

That we are able to say that we have given ourselves a chance with our recruiting.

Now I understand why, given our history, people have doubts whether these guys will make it, but you could say that about any new player(s). At some stage you just have to wait and see rather than write them off as duds/injured before they start.
If three of these six put in a good season this year we are going to look immeasurably better as long as Jamieson, Rowe, Henderson, continue their recent form and dont get injured.

 

[Jeremias]

Lots of water to go under the bridge yet and plenty can change between now and the end of the season but already the heat will be on a few to perform from the get go.

At this stage I'd have the following as most likely to not be with us beyond 2015, for various reasons. In no particular order...

Judd
Carrazzo

Matthew Watson
Rob Warnock
Cameron Giles
Dennis Armfield
David Ellard

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Alex Rance is abso-bloody-lutely the FA/Out of contract player from the 2015 class we should be pursuing (even if I think he'll probably re-sign at Richmond)

A lot of structure and defensive headaches would be solved if we got Rance (yes, think we could fit him, Jamo and Rowe in the same defensive zone, and would mean Hendo wouldn't need to go down back anymore, unless injuries struck)

 

[ShanDog]

Sure, but... it's Rance...

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Sure, but... it's Rance...

Mate he is the only defender in the AFL that towels up Buddy Franklin on a regular basis, was named AA last season, its a mug by any means.

 

[ShanDog]

Mate he is the only defender in the AFL that towels up Buddy Franklin on a regular basis, was named AA last season, its a mug by any means.

I've never really thought of him as anything but average. Must just sneak under my radar all the time.

 

[Big_Luch]

his disposal is poor...sticks in peoples minds.

 

[ferrisb]

Can let down with disposal and occasional brain fade. But one on one is elite.

 

[The Bighouse]

We lost Waite but gained 2 talls in trades and 1 in the draft. That's short term pain but overall a net gain. Let's develop our own - Foster. I mean aside from Jaksch, a Jack Gunston type would be handy but realistically it won't happen. Now's not the 'window' to be topping up on the likes of Lake or Frawley either, so fingers crossed on Gilesy.

You may have your answer in your own post re: Gunston. Foster has been talked about as being that player, drafted for that type of role due to his athleticism. He may be taller but that roaming 3rd tall option will be his go. Also should be able to finish off like Jack does, a bonus as a forward when kicking goals....

Giles will be interesting. Looks great as a loose running defender ala a Mackie type of role, and would be a bonus off HB, BP, but injuries may play out that story, either heading back home or another year to see if we can get him on the park.. Interesting to hear the verdicts on his injuries and how they were managed.