Prediction Collingwood Midfield VS The Rest

[MrStealYourGirl]

Lets not get ahead of ourselves. Brisbane did the same thing last year and it backfired.

Brisbane also had Mcstay as their number 1 key position forward and and a bunch of other spuds. A midfield can only be as damaging as the forward line is really, can't be kicking it to nobody all day.

 

[ThePhantom777]

So it's a midfield setup issue at the centre clearances and around the ground?

 

[slugger01]

I think the quality of our midfield players is not the issue. Our midfield compares, and can compete, with the best of them. The problem i think is we don't have a dominant ruck. Our ruck stocks at the moment are at the level that can compete, but that competition is more to negate the effect of the opposition ruck, rather than beat and dominate in the ruck. Without this, we can't have a midfield gameplan, or rather, we can't execute our midfield game plan successfully to take advantage of the talent we have in midfield players. We need to be able to win ruck contests to advantage, where we start on the front foot, rather than being on the back foot and ask rucks to try negate, and then ask midfielders to apply defensive pressure.
North, West Coast, Freo all have dominant rucks, and they get clearances. Their midfield isn't that special (Fyfe excluded). If we had one of their rucks, what a difference that would make. We would force the opposition midfield to a defensive mindset.
Recruiting Jolly did this for our last premiership. I think this is where we need to look for some serious improvement.
Grundy and Witts must take some big steps, and if they do this, look out.

 

[Gambit78]

So it's a midfield setup issue at the centre clearances and around the ground?

I have a little theory that I am very happy for people to disprove through statistics (or superior common sense, logic, intelligence and so on)...

But, it feels like to me that we have started to struggle with clearances at roughly the same time as when we've adopted the run-with/tagger role. In our hey day with Mick, we didn't really play the tag, and we were extremely good at not only clearances, but also sharking opposition rucks at stoppages.

Maybe the reason why a run-with/tagging player makes clearances more difficult for us is because we have a young ruck group. Opposition ruckmen are able to win the tap more often. So, to use an example, if we're playing Fremantle, and we've assigned Crisp to Fyfe, and Fremantle are uber-confident of winning the tap out, then the other midfielders of Fremantle simply apply a block on Crisp, free up Fyfe and Sandi or whoever, plays the ball down to him. Because, Crisp is assigned as the tagger, our other midfielders would then assume whatever structural position they have at the stoppage and if they're not attune to the blocking of the tag, then more often than not, the opposition player like Fyfe gets a little separation, and ultimately, the clearance.

I do wonder about the value of a tag at a stoppage, as opposed to a tag in the flow of general play.

 

[Pie eyed]

With the Trade Period coming to a close and the pies bringing in Treloar and Aish into the midfield I believe our midfield is one of the best in the competition and as deep as any going around

Aish will play on the wing I believe...

 

[MeisterBot]

We were bottom 4 for clearance and first for contested possession. We can win the hard ball, but aren't really getting first use or using it efficiently to get it going forward.

Lack of ruck dominance is an important factor I think. Bolstering the midfield will help but unless Grundy improves (he will, still young) and we get some really good outside receivers who can split a zone open (Aish I guess, if he emulates Gaff he'll do fine), then our midfield will look better on paper than it does on gameday.

 

[Buckley is my hero]

Our midfield wasn't in the top 10 in the AFL last year, Aish isn't going to have a huge impact immediately and Treloar certainly doesn't move us from 10th to 1st... Delusions of grandeur

It was in the first half of the season. Add Treloar and Aish into the equation together with the expected improvement of Adams, De Goey, Crisp and Greenwood and our midfield becomes plain scary. No delusions of grandeur.

 

[Nicco_jj]

Why are we so flipping bad at clearances? Just makes no sense. I don't know if anything frustrates me more than when I'm watching a game and blokes like priddis, Mitchell et al are just winning clearance after clearance.

 

[Matt_352]

How do people see it working? JDG and Adams doing the grunt work, Treloar providing the burst and speed, Aish on the outside? What happens with Pendles, Greenwood, Broomy?

Id like to see Sidey and Sweeps pushed into the midfield eventually

 

[thetruth000001]

How do people see it working? JDG and Adams doing the grunt work, Treloar providing the burst and speed, Aish on the outside? What happens with Pendles, Greenwood, Broomy?

Greenwood will be rotated through the middle pendlebury may play more of half and and burst through the middle be the first link in a scoring chain, and broomhead will be used as the small crumbing forward and rotate as a high half forward, due to the lack of interchanges forward and back rolls become very important to not burn an interchange

 

[Axl the great]

How do people see it working? JDG and Adams doing the grunt work, Treloar providing the burst and speed, Aish on the outside? What happens with Pendles, Greenwood, Broomy?

Adams and Greenwood will continue to be inside, Pendlebury will still do some inside work but will move to a more outside role across the back half, especially as we have a nervousness when clearing it out of there.
JDG will do some clearance work but I think Bucks may just try and free him up a bit more, JDG is quite a good outside player as well, but we have not seen much of it as yet.
Treloar will be everywhere and provide the serious class all over the ground.
Aish will play the outside role, mostly across half back and wing, and Broomhead will have stints in the middle but be more of a half forward.

Out of all of them I am still looking forward to see Broomhead get a full run at it for a whole year, This bloke seriously excites me and I reckon he has all the traits to move into the elite category in the next 3 years.

 

[didaksrightfoot]

Yeah, lets not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Pendles is clearly elite.
Treloar may get there soon... but lets wait to see how he performs with our team, and how he develops over the next year or so.
Swan is no longer elite.
Sidey can't really be considered elite, and at this stage probably won't get there.
Adams is probably the next best. A very good mid, but will probably make his career as that "grunt" player alongside the truly class guys.
Then there's probably Greenwood and Crisp (and probably Aish will join this level). Guys who are good-to-very good, but not A-Graders. (Aish might get there - but based on 2015, still has a lot to prove to even be a regular best 18 player)
Then Broomhead and DeGoey are probably the rotation guys at the bottom of that group.

And as was posted above - the Ruck situation still has a long way to go.
---

Now that should be a very good midfield. And most of the guys on that list still have a lot of improvement in them... but we are still well below the top teams like Hawthorn, Sydney and Freo... and WCE midfield might need to soon be considered up there as well.

 

[MagpieJoel]

We often get first hands to the ball at ruck contests. Our issue has been what happens next. We often don't have a secondary outlet in good position and/or we get tackled, or the pressure results in an immediate turnover.

Cleaning up this aspect of the game would have a dramatic difference on our midfield output.

 

[thetruth000001]

Yeah, lets not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Pendles is clearly elite.
Treloar may get there soon... but lets wait to see how he performs with our team, and how he develops over the next year or so.
Swan is no longer elite.
Sidey can't really be considered elite, and at this stage probably won't get there.
Adams is probably the next best. A very good mid, but will probably make his career as that "grunt" player alongside the truly class guys.
Then there's probably Greenwood and Crisp (and probably Aish will join this level). Guys who are good-to-very good, but not A-Graders. (Aish might get there - but based on 2015, still has a lot to prove to even be a regular best 18 player)
Then Broomhead and DeGoey are probably the rotation guys at the bottom of that group.

And as was posted above - the Ruck situation still has a long way to go.
---

Now that should be a very good midfield. And most of the guys on that list still have a lot of improvement in them... but we are still well below the top teams like Hawthorn, Sydney and Freo... and WCE midfield might need to soon be considered up there as well.

Am I watching the same games as you are
Swan isn't elite, I'm pretty sure finishing 11 in the brownlow tied with cotchin and gaff at his age averaged the high 20's for disposals are you kidding he is every bit of elite.
Treloar may get there geez for a bloke who is 22 and averaged 28 possessions a game and almost a goal he is there and every bit of as good as any 22 year old in the comp, if anyone watched gws each game the commentators are always like treloar again, like he has the ball on a string.
All these guys Aish DeGoey Adams there all developing Adams if he cleans up his disposal would be a jet big inside body. Will do wonders in finals when the heat is on

 

[doodles98]

I have Adams ahead and just use Crisp as a tagger if we need. Crisp is taller and can take on more opponents.

Crisp is completely wasted as a tagger. He's a gun stand alone mid with damaging disposal and if anything he will be the one getting tagged next year by the opposition if he progresses as you'd expect.

 

[BC__]

I think the quality of our midfield players is not the issue. Our midfield compares, and can compete, with the best of them. The problem i think is we don't have a dominant ruck. Our ruck stocks at the moment are at the level that can compete, but that competition is more to negate the effect of the opposition ruck, rather than beat and dominate in the ruck. Without this, we can't have a midfield gameplan, or rather, we can't execute our midfield game plan successfully to take advantage of the talent we have in midfield players. We need to be able to win ruck contests to advantage, where we start on the front foot, rather than being on the back foot and ask rucks to try negate, and then ask midfielders to apply defensive pressure.
North, West Coast, Freo all have dominant rucks, and they get clearances. Their midfield isn't that special (Fyfe excluded). If we had one of their rucks, what a difference that would make. We would force the opposition midfield to a defensive mindset.
Recruiting Jolly did this for our last premiership. I think this is where we need to look for some serious improvement.
Grundy and Witts must take some big steps, and if they do this, look out.

I wouldn't call Big boy or Hale dominate rucks.
Hawks have done pretty well of late being on the back foot

 

[BC__]

Crisp is completely wasted as a tagger. He's a gun stand alone mid with damaging disposal and if anything he will be the one getting tagged next year by the opposition if he progresses as you'd expect.

Have to agree, would hate to see a hard bodied midfielder like crisp being wasted in a tagging role.

 

[Robroy22]

Yeah, lets not get too far ahead of ourselves.

Pendles is clearly elite.
Treloar may get there soon... but lets wait to see how he performs with our team, and how he develops over the next year or so.
Swan is no longer elite.
Sidey can't really be considered elite, and at this stage probably won't get there.
Adams is probably the next best. A very good mid, but will probably make his career as that "grunt" player alongside the truly class guys.
Then there's probably Greenwood and Crisp (and probably Aish will join this level). Guys who are good-to-very good, but not A-Graders. (Aish might get there - but based on 2015, still has a lot to prove to even be a regular best 18 player)
Then Broomhead and DeGoey are probably the rotation guys at the bottom of that group.

And as was posted above - the Ruck situation still has a long way to go.
---

Now that should be a very good midfield. And most of the guys on that list still have a lot of improvement in them... but we are still well below the top teams like Hawthorn, Sydney and Freo... and WCE midfield might need to soon be considered up there as well.

So you're saying we're about 5th best midfield in the league then......cool.

 

[slugger01]

I wouldn't call Big boy or Hale dominate rucks.
Hawks have done pretty well of late being on the back foot

Haha. Yep, they have. Although they have some pretty good players all accross the field.
When we played them, we won the clearances 46-33, but got beaten. Being able to win clearances is not the be all if you have 20 players who have elite disposal. But for the rest of the mere mortal teams, it does help.

 

[dmoore30]

When we had Pendles, Swan and Beams in there tearing it up it never stopped us losing midfield battles, and we lost a fair few. It isn't all about your centre 3, the wingers and rotation midfielders play a good part, even if they look good on paper in game they balance might be off or a number of things might not be right. So it's right that because it looks good on paper doesn't mean it will be true. In saying this we don't know what's going to happen, we were contested beasts last year and with Greenwood particular having a full year I have no doubt we'll get the ball, it's the outside players we need, I hope we use treloar and Aish as outside midfielders, but like I said it's all about balance and how well they work together, shall be fun and interesting to see until we get the right combination!

 

[Matt_352]

Id like to see Sidey and Sweeps pushed into the midfield eventually

Lol fwd line i meant

 

[Maggie5]

We have the personnel to be the best but until they play a few games together and can second guess where each person will be difficult to judge at this stage. Also we need a bit more from our rucks, both need to be able work together to develop the work ethic that the Hawks have.

 

[mike123]

Crisp is completely wasted as a tagger. He's a gun stand alone mid with damaging disposal and if anything he will be the one getting tagged next year by the opposition if he progresses as you'd expect.

For starters, I said if we need not every game. Secondly, Crisp showed he's more than capable of wining his own ball when tagging.

 

[4tone]

Brisbane said the same this time last year.

And so did Hawks fans by saying 3 peat coming up. So what, forums wont shape 2016. Many reasons as to why the lions weren't good enough, but not on the back opinions from here. 2015 could of been different, with the first Tiger game, the Hawks. Dockers and Power cliff hangers, the Swans debacle shooting for goal and throw in the last Bomber game, 16/6. I bet the mood would be a lot different around here. Fact is Buckley will be a better coach for it, the players will have another preseason. The club will explode sooner rather than later, the list is better than 2010 / 2011, but not up to those levels that that side achieved. Just a little patience required, Buckley will deliver a great period in the history of the club.

 

[Gone Critical]

And so did Hawks fans by saying 3 peat coming up. So what, forums wont shape 2016. Many reasons as to why the lions weren't good enough, but not on the back opinions from here. 2015 could of been different, with the first Tiger game, the Hawks. Dockers and Power cliff hangers, the Swans debacle shooting for goal and throw in the last Bomber game, 16/6. I bet the mood would be a lot different around here. Fact is Buckley will be a better coach for it, the players will have another preseason. The club will explode sooner rather than later, the list is better than 2010 / 2011, but not up to those levels that that side achieved. Just a little patience required, Buckley will deliver a great period in the history of the club.

Big call. Thats the best list Collingwood has had in my opinion since the 20s and 30s. Closing in on 100years. This current list has a long way to go before even being part of that discussion.