Opinion Chris Scott's coaching - Part 1 [closed, see Part II]

[BlightysCats]

Only rookie or inexperienced coaches have or need a DOC in the AFL.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

That must be why we got a DOC.

He is no different to a second in charge or senior assistant coach which nearly every club has .Same thing , different name .

All clubs wants good assistant coaches.

 

[BlightysCats]

He is no different to a second in charge or senior assistant coach which nearly every club has .Same thing , different name .

All clubs wants good assistant coaches.

Why not call him an assistant coach then?

 

[Art Vandelay_]

He is no different to a second in charge or senior assistant coach which nearly every club has .Same thing , different name .

All clubs wants good assistant coaches.

hear, hear.

The profoundness of why he's been appointed is well and truly overblown and the importance of his title is too. Scott would have had input in his recruitment given they were colleagues at Fremantle, if he was head hunted for a senior coaching replacement it is highly unlikely Scott would want him here.

As is usually the case, the simplest answer is usually the correct one, he's here as we're striving to get better and with that comes recruiting good coaches as well.

 

[vinum coupe]

Depends on what goes wrong and who is responsible.

Scott will not be sacked this year , even if we miss the finals .It usualy takes 3 seasons out of the finals to for a coach to be sacked, plus scott already has credits in the bank.

If Geelong were to miss the finals in 2016.
Sacked.
End of story.

 

[vinum coupe]

Only rookie or inexperienced coaches have or need a DOC in the AFL.

Do you actually know why he's been employed?
It's because he's a psych

He has been employed to coach the coaches on how they deliver messages.
What works, what doesn't
How they look after their well being, how they look after their self development.

He hasn't been employed for footy nous.

 

[BlightysCats]

Do you actually know why he's been employed?
It's because he's a psych

He has been employed to coach the coaches on how they deliver messages.
What works, what doesn't
How they look after their well being, how they look after their self development.

He hasn't been employed for footy nous.

Logic tells me otherwise, a guy doesn't apply for a senior coaching position he's been working his entire career to get one minute then accept a glorified sports psych role with a different title the next. He'll definitely have a big say in tactics and I'm not the only one who thinks so.
'The appointment of Simon Lloyd as coaching director gives the Cats a fresh pair of eyes to support Blake Caracella, Matthew Knights, Matthew Scarlett and Nigel Lappin as well as someone to challenge Scott's thinking.'
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-08/afl-coaching-groups-how-is-your-club-placed

 

[Cataholic]

Logic tells me otherwise, a guy doesn't apply for a senior coaching position he's been working his entire career to get one minute then accept a glorified sports psych role with a different title the next. He'll definitely have a big say in tactics and I'm not the only one who thinks so.
'The appointment of Simon Lloyd as coaching director gives the Cats a fresh pair of eyes to support Blake Caracella, Matthew Knights, Matthew Scarlett and Nigel Lappin as well as someone to challenge Scott's thinking.'
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-08/afl-coaching-groups-how-is-your-club-placed

Your logic tells you that, but it mighn't give someone else the same message. Individual interpretation of logic is called opinion.

 

[Partridge]

So because Voss and Hird couldn't coach that means Ling cant coach ?

Ling has been a part time coach with Geelong , had excellent on field leadership skills, great work ethic , great people skills ,great communication skills and is a player who got he most out of himself without being blessed with lots of natural ability.

I don't think Geelong will appoint a coach who hasn't played senior AFL football.

No, it means because they had no prior coaching experience they were totally unqualified.

Has Ling been a full time assistant coach yet? Will he be doing that next year? Because if the answers are no, I don't want him near a senior coaching role.

 

[vinum coupe]

Logic tells me otherwise, a guy doesn't apply for a senior coaching position he's been working his entire career to get one minute then accept a glorified sports psych role with a different title the next. He'll definitely have a big say in tactics and I'm not the only one who thinks so.
'The appointment of Simon Lloyd as coaching director gives the Cats a fresh pair of eyes to support Blake Caracella, Matthew Knights, Matthew Scarlett and Nigel Lappin as well as someone to challenge Scott's thinking.'
http://www.afl.com.au/news/2015-11-08/afl-coaching-groups-how-is-your-club-placed

What I heard is what I believe.
That's better logic.

 

[Vdubs]

No, it means because they had no prior coaching experience they were totally unqualified.

Has Ling been a full time assistant coach yet? Will he be doing that next year? Because if the answers are no, I don't want him near a senior coaching role.

Not at Geelong anyway.

 

[BlightysCats]

What I heard is what I believe.
That's better logic.

I like you vinum coupe and think you're a very good poster on here, and I enjoyed your Parko/Willo interview (not that you would probably care) but surely you aren't naïve enough to believe what you hear from any organisation, especially one that's just appointed a DOC (that was vigorously chasing a senior coaching position literally a couple of weeks before mind you) to oversee an experienced premiership coach when that has never been done before in AFL history.

 

[BlightysCats]

Your logic tells you that, but it mighn't give someone else the same message. Individual interpretation of logic is called opinion.

Opinion is one thing but a series of events in chronological order that show a guy has worked his way up the AFL chain over many many years only to finally apply for a senior coaching position, (that he's obviously been aiming for) lose out, and then randomly take on a significantly lesser position than he had to begin with a week later all seems illogical and pretty unlikely to me. I would say it's evidenced based rational thinking that lead me to the conclusion that he has a far more important role to play than one of a glorified sports psych - and that is based on logical rational thought processes far more than me wanting to espouse some mere opinion on the matter. To put it simply in a clumsy analogy, you don't climb a ladder your whole life only to give up and start climbing back down with one rung to go.

 

[Cataholic]

Opinion is one thing but a series of events in chronological order that show a guy has worked his way up the AFL chain over many many years only to finally apply for a senior coaching position, (that he's obviously been aiming for) lose out, and then randomly take on a significantly lesser position than you had to begin with a week later all seems illogical and pretty unlikely to me. I would say it's evidenced based rational thinking that lead me to the conclusion that he has a far more important role to play than one of a glorified sports psych - and that is based on logical rational thought processes far more than me wanting to espouse some mere opinion on the matter. To put it simply in a clumsy analogy, you don't climb a ladder your whole life only to give up and start climbing back down with one rung to go.

I don't necessarily disagree with you.

A former boss once said to me that 'there's no such thing as common sense, because what makes sense to you doesn't necessarily make sense to me'.

Just saying that 'logic', and its interpretation, is much the same.

 

[vinum coupe]

I like you vinum coupe and think you're a very good poster on here, and I enjoyed your Parko/Willo interview (not that you would probably care) but surely you aren't naïve enough to believe what you hear from any organisation, especially one that's just appointed a DOC (that was vigorously chasing a senior coaching position literally a couple of weeks before mind you) to oversee an experienced premiership coach when that has never been done before in AFL history.

Nope that opinion didn't come from anything I've seen released by the club.
It was said by a friend of his.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

If we missed finals next year Scott would have to be sacked because there'd be outrage by our powerbrokers plus we'd struggle to get enough members in 2017 if he wasn't.

No, it means because they had no prior coaching experience they were totally unqualified.

Has Ling been a full time assistant coach yet? Will he be doing that next year? Because if the answers are no, I don't want him near a senior coaching role.

That's fair enough .But I think part of the problem with Voss,Hird and perhaps Buckley is that they were so naturally gifted as footballers that the couldn't relate well to their players. They also got by as players with natural ability were as someone like Ling had to use his brain to a large extent .

I am not saying that Ling would certainly be our next coach , the point was more about not getting carried away with Simon Lloyd at this stage.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Opinion is one thing but a series of events in chronological order that show a guy has worked his way up the AFL chain over many many years only to finally apply for a senior coaching position, (that he's obviously been aiming for) lose out, and then randomly take on a significantly lesser position than he had to begin with a week later all seems illogical and pretty unlikely to me. I would say it's evidenced based rational thinking that lead me to the conclusion that he has a far more important role to play than one of a glorified sports psych - and that is based on logical rational thought processes far more than me wanting to espouse some mere opinion on the matter. To put it simply in a clumsy analogy, you don't climb a ladder your whole life only to give up and start climbing back down with one rung to go.

I know this is a difficult request but can you not say things that are so stupid ?

Geelong got Llyod because he is a good assistant coach , do you want us to go and get bad assistant coaches ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I like you vinum coupe and think you're a very good poster on here, and I enjoyed your Parko/Willo interview (not that you would probably care) but surely you aren't naïve enough to believe what you hear from any organisation, especially one that's just appointed a DOC (that was vigorously chasing a senior coaching position literally a couple of weeks before mind you) to oversee an experienced premiership coach when that has never been done before in AFL history.

and surely your aren't naïve enough to believe those voices in your head which must be the only thing you are listening to ?

 

[Partridge]

I am not saying that Ling would certainly be our next coach , the point was more about not getting carried away with Simon Lloyd at this stage.

It is amazing how enduring the idea of the favourite son (or former player) as coach is. You know when the last season was when an ex-player coached the team? 1988.

 

[evolutionbaby]

3,500 + games of experience lost for a variety of reasons since the 2011 GF. And yet only missed finals this year.
I work for a company that's lost 3,500 + years, as an estimate, over the last 18 months. The company has lost ground, relatively, in the market place.
The point? Sustained success is not possible in either scenario. You need to find the right replacements and develop them with time, patience and perserverance.
I keep reading about tactics this and tactics that. Yep tactics are great if you have the experienced, developed people to implement them. If you don't then you need to hold your nerve until you do.
Time, patience and perseverance. I think our coach understands these concepts and has earned the right to continue for the forseeable future.

 

[David the Cat]

It is amazing how enduring the idea of the favourite son (or former player) as coach is. You know when the last season was when an ex-player coached the team? 1988.

.....and that worked out well

 

[Vdubs]

.....and that worked out well

True, but the one before JD was at least able to get us top 4 in consec years- should have been in at least 1 GF.

 

[FredLeDeux]

I think a change up in assistants and the appointment of Lloyd could really help.

I heard Jackie Lounder (sp?) talking about the appointment of Lloyd.
She thinks it's a ground breaking appointment. Says Geelong may be well ahead of the curve in club development.

Let me expand on what Lounder said. It may have already been written here.
And it was 2 weeks ago so going from memory.

Said she did uni with Lloyd.
Said that he is exceptional. A brilliant psych.

Said that his core role is to actually coach the coaches.
He'll be teaching them self awareness, attitude, personal development. Teaching them how to correctly convey messages to players so that it gets through.

She said it's a first. No one has ever done this.


So maybe in the case of Scott, he has the right message. But it's not getting across.
This can only help.

Nope that opinion didn't come from anything I've seen released by the club.
It was said by a friend of his.

It was actually said by Dr Jacquie Louder - this lady - in one of her occasional gigs on the radio:

http://www.opsmc.com.au/psychologists/jacqui-louder.html

Your 2 original comments above 5 weeks ago in this thread correctly summarise what she said on SEN, and confirm what the club has said about his role, namely that In the newly created role, Lloyd will oversee the performance and development of coaches and the player development program.

He's not just another assistant, he's not Scott's superior or supervisor or nominated successor or hand-holder, he's not just another club psych ('glorified" or otherwise, though his experience in that job at other clubs will no doubt be invaluable in this completely new job), he's not some super-tactician.

He's the League's first-ever true Director of Coaching, appointed to coach the coaches and help them do their jobs and get their message across better, both as coaches generally, and in particular to younger players when implementing the player development program.

This innovation could end up being every bit as important as the old Leading Teams initiative.

 

[BlightysCats]

This innovation could end up being every bit as important as the old Leading Teams initiative.

Big call. Shouldn't the coaches relationship and communication with his players be organic and genuine though? I'm not sure you can manufacture this stuff behind closed doors simply by instructing coaches on how to use different language, or mannerisms etc. when explaining things to players. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

 

[FredLeDeux]

Big call. Shouldn't the coaches relationship and communication with his players be organic and genuine though? I'm not sure you can manufacture this stuff behind closed doors simply by instructing coaches on how to use different language, or mannerisms etc. when explaining things to players. I suppose we'll have to wait and see.

Not only will we have to wait and see, there's a good chance that even then we'll never, ever know how well it's worked, if at all.