Who has the worst...

[tunksy]

My thoughts, Remember mate just an opinion.

I agree but my point is there is depth on the position if an injury were to occur or someone was to retire. Fully expect us to hunt a ruck end of 2016

 

[Richo83]

Why am I not surprised to read that our youth only looks good because of the players they get to play with? Similar to how pretty much every one of those senior players is only good because of their teammates - which is a common theme when discussing Hawthorn players on Bigfooty, it seems.

There's a difference between saying that Cyril Rioli only looks good because of his teammates and saying that O'Rourke is fairly reliant on his teammates. Sure, many of your stars have been unfairly criticised, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your young players suffer the same fate.

Litherland, O'Brien, Howe and Sicily have all shown they have a future at senior level

Sicily has played three games. He wasn't bad in them, but they're three games and two of them were against the lions and blues. O'Brien and Howe have played four games. I don't think you can say these players have shown anything particularly definitive. Maybe they'll make it, but no-one really knows for sure and they look less certain bets than higher draft picks of similar age at other clubs.

Land have been courted by other clubs who promise them opportunity.

That doesn't necessarily prove that they're good, teams are always looking to find players who aren't getting a game elsewhere to improve their depth. It's a moneyball move and it may not work out anyway.

 

[rgauci]

Some players have 2/3 AA honers at the age of 25. 25 is far too old to be counted as young talent. 22 or under.

A 25 year old can still be considered young enough to be in the first half of their career. It's just another arbitrary number, you picked 22, the thread says 23, I say 25. Circular argument.

 

[Demonated]

Rucks: Western Bulldogs followed by Richmond/Carlton (To be honest Maric probably keeps Richmond out of it for now, but he's in the twilight of his career, Kreuzer is there but doesn't play much due to injuries, Dogs had Minson but modern game does not suit him and now their best rucks are forwards/defenders who should be back-ups only)

Midfield: Carlton followed by Essendon. Both teams have mids who did achieve some accolades such as AA, AFLCA
MVP, Brownlow (Thomas/Murphy, Watson/Goddard) but are not up to same standards anymore. Blues relying on Cripps and Docherty to carry the older guys. Bombers have some depth even if the top guys have fallen from elite tier.

Forwards: Melbourne - other than Jesse Hogan, there isn't much down there, not even in terms of flexibility. Now, Hogan is obviously a gun and he would be best forward at a fair few clubs, but there's just Not many options tall or small. Pretty clear to me why Roos had them playing such a shit style of footy for an 18 month period, they couldn't kick goals. Maybe by end of 2016 Hogan alone will have lifted them out of this.

Defence - Brisbane followed by Carlton. Some promising defenders for both teams, Andrews/Clarke look good and very happy with Weitering and his talent, think the Blues have overall some better small/medium defenders. Don'r rate Merrett, losing Patfull hurt them and Hanley is midfielder not a half-back like some would say.

Young talent - probably Hawks but only because they don't get to play so it's hard to judge.

Our forwards are indeed quite bad and we have no options outside of Hogan and Garlett. However, both of them would be the best forward at Brisbane and Carlton. Neither of those teams even have a single genuine forward who has proven much. Casboult and Green are the closest that I can think of and they would be our 3rd most dangerous forward. Hogan/Garlett combo managed 84 goals in 2015, I'd guess that would be more than the entire remaining Carlton forward line.

 

[Sprout]

Forwards: Melbourne - other than Jesse Hogan, there isn't much down there, not even in terms of flexibility. Now, Hogan is obviously a gun and he would be best forward at a fair few clubs, but there's just Not many options tall or small. Pretty clear to me why Roos had them playing such a shit style of footy for an 18 month period, they couldn't kick goals. Maybe by end of 2016 Hogan alone will have lifted them out of this.

I know it must hurt seeing Jeffy kick 40 goals for another side, but pretending he doesn't exist won't help

It's a developing forwardline with Weideman, King, Harmes and Kennedy-Harris being longer term prospects, but Hogan and Garlett alone is better than anything Carlton can cobble together. Kent (injured for the vast majority of last season) and Petracca will add further potency next season. Even Watts for all his faults should now be approaching his best years as a 24 year old.

 

[Big Bruce]

That is true.

Brad Hill, right? Or do you have another one now? If it is Brad Hill he's been getting good consistent senior footy.

Hartung and O'Rourke look good whilst the rest on that list (along with others) are unproven.

From a side who's had a big period of success leading to sustained absence from the top end of the draft (a road we've travelled down also), I suggest a wait and see approach, to how these guys fair when Burgoyne, hodge, Mitchell, Gibson etc retire.

They can make youth look really good and it's not until those stars depart that you can truly sort the wheat from the chaff.

Pretty much agree with this. I don't think we have the worst under 23's but we are a long way from the best. I think we'd have close to the best B and C graders but we will have to replace our guns.
Hodge has said each player at the Hawks gets one great contract in return for success, think we might have some money to spend over the next 3 years as our champs retire. We had money for Carlisle so there is some to spend already

 

[aussierulesrules]

Defenders - St Kilda

Defenders St kilda

I'm going to humbly suggest that our backline next year will be well short of the worst in the AFL.

I can understand why we would get a couple of mentions for our midfield, but our backline was the strongest area of the ground for us this year (5 of the top 10 in our B&F generally played there) and we've now added Carlisle, who could significantly strengthen that area (not only through his own performances, but also through the flow-on effect of his presence freeing up Fisher and Dempster to play more suitable intercepting/rebounding games again). Hugh Goddard will also hopefully have the benefits of a 2nd preseason and be a lot more ready to make a strong contribution at CHB/FB than he did this year and we're looking like having a hell of a lot of strong competition for all spots back there, which is likely to keep everyone on their toes and playing at their best.

 

[scott_the_man]

I'm going to humbly suggest that our backline next year will be well short of the worst in the AFL.

I can understand why we would get a couple of mentions for our midfield, but our backline was the strongest area of the ground for us this year (5 of the top 10 in our B&F generally played there) and we've now added Carlisle, who could significantly strengthen that area (not only through his own performances, but also through the flow-on effect of his presence freeing up Fisher and Dempster to play more suitable intercepting/rebounding games again). Hugh Goddard will also hopefully have the benefits of a 2nd preseason and be a lot more ready to make a strong contribution at CHB/FB than he did this year and we're looking like having a hell of a lot of strong competition for all spots back there, which is likely to keep everyone on their toes and playing at their best.

I just can't rank any team's backline below the saints. Lions & Carlton are probably next in line but both are stronger than St Kilda's IMO

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

There's a difference between saying that Cyril Rioli only looks good because of his teammates and saying that O'Rourke is fairly reliant on his teammates. Sure, many of your stars have been unfairly criticised, but that doesn't necessarily mean that your young players suffer the same fate.



Sicily has played three games. He wasn't bad in them, but they're three games and two of them were against the lions and blues. O'Brien and Howe have played four games. I don't think you can say these players have shown anything particularly definitive. Maybe they'll make it, but no-one really knows for sure and they look less certain bets than higher draft picks of similar age at other clubs.



That doesn't necessarily prove that they're good, teams are always looking to find players who aren't getting a game elsewhere to improve their depth. It's a moneyball move and it may not work out anyway.

So you think Hawthorn's youth is the worst in the comp?

 

[Strapping Young Lad]

It categorically means they are unproven. It is impossible to be proven at senior level without playing much. They could still be good players though.

No, it doesn't.

Plenty of our younger types have come in, played really well, then gone straight back to Box Hill when the senior player they had replaced is fit. Litherland, Howe, Hartung the main examples.

 

[Richo83]

So you think Hawthorn's youth is the worst in the comp?

Yeah. And if they're not, they'd be the 16th or 17th. It's what happens when you've been up for that long. O'Rorke is still a very raw prospect that was picked too high, Hartung and Hill are mainly outside, and apart from that it's a bunch of skinny kids with little experience playing AFL football. And while I'm sure some of them have aced VFL footy, VFL football and AFL football is a whole new ballgame. You can be a little sloppy, or slow, or short at VFL level. You can't at AFL level, where all the coaching means naught if you don't have any weapons.

 

[Richo83]

I just can't rank any team's backline below the saints. Lions & Carlton are probably next in line but both are stronger than St Kilda's IMO

St Kilda's backline is better than Carlton's. Carlisle would be Carlton's best backman if he was a blue.

 

[jjsmitty8]

Worst Christmas song - Adelaide

That was cringeworthy. Like the concept, but the chick singing was woeful I thought, out of key, out of time, both maybe, I dunno, just sounded awkward..

Ps. six MODDDDDRA.

 

[aussierulesrules]

St Kilda's backline is better than Carlton's. Carlisle would be Carlton's best backman if he was a blue.

Dempster (AA team in 2012 and also top 3 in our last couple of B&F's) may be their next best.

Would expect ours to be ahead of Brisbane's next year as well, if Carlisle plays most of the year.

Could make such a big difference not having to play the likes of Dempster and Fisher at FB or CHB any more (as was the case in every game this year- Delaney and Goddard didn't play at the same time all year, which meant we were generally undersized at one or both of FB or CHB every week). They're much more of an offensive "weapon" when they're not required to play shut-down roles, especially Fisher.

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Pretty much agree with this. I don't think we have the worst under 23's but we are a long way from the best. I think we'd have close to the best B and C graders but we will have to replace our guns.
Hodge has said each player at the Hawks gets one great contract in return for success, think we might have some money to spend over the next 3 years as our champs retire. We had money for Carlisle so there is some to spend already

Thanks.

I was trying to be balanced but at the same time compare them to probably the only club with similar circumstances. For some reason every time we converse Echols gets all sandy.

Meh, let him be precious for all I care.

 

[Trob]

Defenders - essendon
Midfielders (Ruck-man inc) - essendon
Forwards - essendon
Coach - essendon
Young talent (Under 23)essendon
sorted !

Flog

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk

 

[Richo83]

I don't understand why Hawthorn fans desperately fight every battle anyway. Your club has won three flags in a row. If I were them I wouldn't be so mad if their kids aren't that good. Don't we kinda all expect that?

 

[JackOutback]

I don't understand why Hawthorn fans desperately fight every battle anyway. Your club has won three flags in a row. If I were them I wouldn't be so mad if their kids aren't that good. Don't we kinda all expect that?

Expecting Hawks fans not to be arrogant? Are you new to Big Footy?

 

[Ambrosia]

Backline - Carlton
Midfield - StKilda
Forward - Carlton
U/23 - North

 

[scott_the_man]

Dempster (AA team in 2012 and also top 3 in our last couple of B&F's) may be their next best.

Would expect ours to be ahead of Brisbane's next year as well, if Carlisle plays most of the year.

Could make such a big difference not having to play the likes of Dempster and Fisher at FB or CHB any more (as was the case in every game this year- Delaney and Goddard didn't play at the same time all year, which meant we were generally undersized at one or both of FB or CHB every week). They're much more of an offensive "weapon" when they're not required to play shut-down roles, especially Fisher.

What would you say St Kildas best back 6 is?

 

[Richo83]

Expecting Hawks fans not to be arrogant? Are you new to Big Footy?

I guess, I just find the effort put in to tell me that some kid who's played 3 games at AFL level has somehow proven that he can cut it at AFL level. No he hasn't! He's proven jack squat.

 

[scott_the_man]

St Kilda's backline is better than Carlton's. Carlisle would be Carlton's best backman if he was a blue.

Carlton have some real offensive power in their backline with Simpson, Touhy & Docherty. St Kilda are lacking in that area IMO

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Expecting Hawks fans not to be arrogant? Are you new to Big Footy?

I'm not and I'm not surprised...

As always it's the minority who ruin it for the rest who I'm sure aren't that way at all.

 

[Richo83]

Carlton have some real offensive power in their backline with Simpson, Touhy & Docherty. St Kilda are lacking in that area IMO

There's no point having rebounding defenders if every time it goes in there, the opposition scores. For all the good those three had (Walker too) Carlton's transition from defence was terrible this year.

 

[scott_the_man]

There's no point having rebounding defenders if every time it goes in there, the opposition scores. For all the good those three had (Walker too) Carlton's transition from defence was terrible this year.

That's true but I think Carltons midfield is partly to blame for that. They allow the oppisition far too much time & space, which makes the defenders job very difficult