Play Nice Eddie McGuire comments on holding Caro Wilson underwater

[H2F]

Remember Eddie's name was all over NM relocation discussion documents being faxed around.

I thought that was just rumour though because Eddie went to bat for North.

Was that actually true?

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Maybe not call the Police when she specifically asked them not to. Could that have something to do with Dusty's dad being a notorious and since deported member of a Outlaw Motorcycle Gang.

Pretty sure the AFL called in the cops.

Anyway, point is, let's see more players from more clubs take a stand this week.
Stand in the middle of the ground arm-in-arm before the games. There is an opportunity here, let's not just talk the talk, let's mean it when it comes to respect for women.

It's not like Richmond folk are not guilty here, Frawley for a start, and again from a radio show from probably 15 years ago that I can't remember the name anymore but used to feature Caro and Rex on Sunday mornings; the way Rex used to just completely disregard Caro's opinion was terrible, I remember it being uncomfortable listening at times.

 

[Fadge]

Pretty sure the AFL called in the cops.

It's not like Richmond folk are not guilty here, Frawley for a start, and again from a radio show from probably 15 years ago that I can't remember the name anymore but used to feature Caro and Rex on Sunday mornings; the way Rex used to just completely disregard Caro's opinion was terrible, I remember it being uncomfortable listening at times.

I expect this to hit the papers in the morning, can't wait!

 

[Joey longshadow]

Used to love watching the T-Birds as a kid. Sexism wasn't an issue back then, maybe because it was everywhere and accepted. You don't know these things as a kid.

The Los Angeles Thunderbird's ..yes I remember them ..not sure if it was actually sexist ..my memories of it were a bunch if wild girls beating the hell out of each other ...quite frankly they were a bit scary

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

You missed the point. She got into the public sphere then declared herself incapable of surviving it due to her gender.

Look at what the Sun says about Bill Shorten on a daily basis. Look at the kind of insults levied at Trump whenever he is mentioned in The Age. If you honestly think jokes about drowning or black widows are worse than what plenty of other public figures experience all the time, you clearly don't read any papers.

Are Shorten or Trump targeted by newspapers for their politics or business actions or expressed opinions, because that is allowable. That's the media's job and they can counter back if the media get it wrong.

This was different.

 

[Darpy]

Caroline Wilson is a successful female journalist in a career that is extremely male dominated.

You use the term"successful" very loosely there. Just because you have a podium to sprout doesn't make you a success.

Caroline Wilson is the absolute epitome of gutter journalism in footy and it's just so hypocritical that she is on the high horse in all of this. Feminist issues aside, some here just need to realise that sometimes when we cop a beating it's because we deserve it

 

[TheSierBear]

Pretty sure the AFL called in the cops.

Anyway, point is, let's see more players from more clubs take a stand this week.
Stand in the middle of the ground arm-in-arm before the games. There is an opportunity here, let's not just talk the talk, let's mean it when it comes to respect for women.

It's not like Richmond folk are not guilty here, Frawley for a start, and again from a radio show from probably 15 years ago that I can't remember the name anymore but used to feature Caro and Rex on Sunday mornings; the way Rex used to just completely disregard Caro's opinion was terrible, I remember it being uncomfortable listening at times.

Oh Dear.

 

[H2F]

I've never heard anyone talk in more disparaging terms about North than Eddie McGuire.

Mocking them for wearing orange guernseys for $$, and 'scraping the skin off peoples hands' if I remember his words correctly in a radio interview long ago now. Having seen the Tiges go through SOS, I was outraged at his arrogance, but the hosts of the radio show (footy people, can't remember who) never pulled him up once, and even said how amazing he was after the interview was done.

Almost can't blame the guy when he's surrounded by so many matesy yes-men. Could easily blunt your capacity for self-reflection.

What an absolute crock...

Eddie personally mentored JB through something very difficult.

The fact North were on top of the ladder and making serious profits is not fluke. Mate that was an incredibly risky and hard plan to execute. Eddie may be getting lazy and this was really stupid. But sorry I won't cop anything around what he did to help JB and North unless you show me proof.

 

[basashi]

What the guys said was stupid, hurtful etc and they needed to apologise and they needed to do so properly. I agree with all of that. they could probably also bear some realistic sanction as well.

However...

The extent of the reaction here appears to be coloured by the (quite rightful) community anger about DV. Of course Eddie and co can't just declare they are speaking without context and they have to recognise they touched on a sensitive topic - but at the same time they are only guilty of what they have done... and that is making some stupid comments. They don't suddenly become "a bit guilty of DV" by association. Men who don't commit DV are not any more responsible for DV than women who don't commit DV. That excess anger is misdirected. People who commit DV should carry the can for DV.

Secondly, there have been some sweeping statements made about the suitability of topics for humour. Black humour, in the right context, location and with the right people is a perfectly legitimate form of expression. The fact that a topic is selected for black humour is evidence that it IS understood, that it IS serious. People have claimed that making black humour about a topic is to take a flippant attitude to it, to disregard its seriousness or to not understand it - but the opposite is true.

 

[Tas]

As for PC leftie whackos, I've been on all sides of PC debates. I've felt the need to educate myself over the years as I didn't get it either most of the time. Let's just say I am more anti-bully than I am pro-political correctness. I'm more about taking a walk in someone else's shoes before you make a song and a dance about petty freedoms being taken away. I'm more about reserving some wriggle room for understanding rather than going full bore at an issue.

I think everyone should make the effort to not intentionally humiliate or make any individual or group feel less about themselves as a person or people, however, people take it to extremes.

Caro has made a career out of slinging mud and making personal attacks public and I don't think there is anyone associated with football that isn't aware there is bad blood between Caro and Eddie/JB. If she is good enough to give it, she is good enough to receive it.

I'd never want to see my daughter, sister, niece, etc the target of abuse, but if they made a career about abusing people publicly in the media and not caring one iota what personal hurt they inflict on others then I would want them to understand there are consequences for how you conduct yourself, irrespective of your gender or race or whatever group you are part of and how others will perceive you and feel about you. Ultimately, the ill-feelings Eddie and JB have towards her are a direct consequence of her actions and if they make inappropriate jokes about her is it really a crusade for men to abuse women? If anything it a lesson in restraint. If she was male, she would probably have received as many personal threats as some of the male journalists who write in a similar manner.

I think we will always find a disconnect between older generation who could laugh and make jokes about anything and younger generations who have been spoilt with the privilege of knowing no hardship and embrace progressive attitudes which while are wholesome in spirit can become totalitarian if not restrained with reason.

I hope our nation does not lose it's sense of humour while it strives to be better.

 

[hawkgal02]

You missed the point. She got into the public sphere then declared herself incapable of surviving it due to her gender.

Look at what the Sun says about Bill Shorten on a daily basis. Look at the kind of insults levied at Trump whenever he is mentioned in The Age. If you honestly think jokes about drowning or black widows are worse than what plenty of other public figures experience all the time, you clearly don't read any papers.

Comparing Caroline Wilson to Donald Trump is drawing a seriously long bow. Donald Trump has insulted millions of people for legitimate reasons, Caroline has offended a couple of AFL personalities. it's hardly the same thing.
The herald sun is a conservative tabloid that will do anything to undermine the Labor party.
But no i have never heard or read the kind of derogatory and sexist comments that get made about Caroline Wilson about Trump or Shorten.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

The Los Angeles Thunderbird's ..yes I remember them ..not sure if it was actually sexist ..my memories of it were a bunch if wild girls beating the hell out of each other ...quite frankly they were a bit scary

Not just girls though. There was a men's race in between and a mixed race. One older balding guy ... Ralphie Valladares - legendary.

 

[jaaack]

Are Shorten or Trump targeted by newspapers for their politics or business actions or expressed opinions, because that is allowable. That's the media's job and they can counter back if the media get it wrong.

This was different.

So journalists are unimpeachable? It seems like Wilson expresses opinions, takes business actions, and has her own politics. It seems she is perfectly capable of hitting back at what she doesn't like.

How is it different?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I think everyone should make the effort to not intentionally humiliate or make any individual or group feel less about themselves as a person or people, however, people take it to extremes.

Caro has made a career out of slinging mud and making personal attacks public and I don't think there is anyone associated with football that isn't aware there is bad blood between Caro and Eddie/JB. If she is good enough to give it, she is good enough to receive it.

I'd never want to see my daughter, sister, niece, etc the target of abuse, but if they made a career about abusing people publicly in the media and not caring one iota what personal hurt they inflict on others then I would want them to understand there are consequences for how you conduct yourself, irrespective of your gender or race or whatever group you are part of and how others will perceive you and feel about you. Ultimately, the ill-feelings Eddie and JB have towards her are a direct consequence of her actions and if they make inappropriate jokes about her is it really a crusade for men to abuse women? If anything it a lesson in restraint. If she was male, she would probably have received as many personal threats as some of the male journalists who write in a similar manner.

I think we will always find a disconnect between older generation who could laugh and make jokes about anything and younger generations who have been spoilt with the privilege of knowing no hardship and embrace progressive attitudes which while are wholesome in spirit can become totalitarian if not restraint with reason.

I hope our nation does not lose it's sense of humour while it strives to be better.

I keep saying that if she is out of line with her journalism, you attack her journalism. You attack her credibility as a journalist, you attack her motivation as journalist, you highlight her hypocrisy as a journalist. When you say she abuses them through her articles, what sort of thing is she saying that makes the sort of bullying comments these guys made a reasonable response?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

So journalists are unimpeachable? It seems like Wilson expresses opinions, takes business actions, and has her own politics. It seems she is perfectly capable of hitting back at what she doesn't like.

How is it different?

I just said they can be hit back at because of their journalism. They hit you through their journalism. You hit back at their journalism. Get the counter in the sphere in which they hit you from. More importantly, don't do it having a laughing blokey chat on air instead of delivering it in the appropriate format with an air of professionalism attached.

 

[Joey longshadow]

If the risk is you may say the wrong thing, may I suggest following the hierarchy of control when it comes to managing risk.

1. Elimination - can you eliminate the risk i.e don't say anything at all
2. Substitute - can you substitute the wrong words for the right words
3. Isolate/Engineering controls - can you keep people away from the risk i.e say it in a sound proof booth
4. Administration controls - can you be trained to steer clear of the wrong thing i.e education
5. Personal Protective Equipment - can you wear something to minimise your risk if you do come into contact with the risk i.e a muzzle

Now you have to start from the top and choose the first one it is possible to do.

If only this advice was engraved in granite above the doors of both the herald sun and the age newspapers sports journalism depts

 

[FuManchu]

You use the term"successful" very loosely there. Just because you have a podium to sprout doesn't make you a success.

Caroline Wilson is the absolute epitome of gutter journalism in footy and it's just so hypocritical that she is on the high horse in all of this. Feminist issues aside, some here just need to realise that sometimes when we cop a beating it's because we deserve it

She's very successful and bloody good at her job. McGuire just doesn't like being held up to scrutiny and given she's the best at doing that in a town where many are too afraid to take him on, he looks as weak as piss for the overtly petulant attack. Maybe he should attack her facts and debate her opinion rather than make snide comments looking to 'put her in her place'.

 

[hawkgal02]

You use the term"successful" very loosely there. Just because you have a podium to sprout doesn't make you a success.

Caroline Wilson is the absolute epitome of gutter journalism in footy and it's just so hypocritical that she is on the high horse in all of this. Feminist issues aside, some here just need to realise that sometimes when we cop a beating it's because we deserve it

Just because you don't agree with what she writes doesn't make her unsuccessful.
She is the chief football writer for the age, she's the first woman to cover the AFL full-time and has won multiple media and journalism awards. So yeah i would say she's a pretty successful journalist.

 

[Joey longshadow]

If the risk is you may say the wrong thing, may I suggest following the hierarchy of control when it comes to managing risk.

1. Elimination - can you eliminate the risk i.e don't say anything at all
2. Substitute - can you substitute the wrong words for the right words
3. Isolate/Engineering controls - can you keep people away from the risk i.e say it in a sound proof booth
4. Administration controls - can you be trained to steer clear of the wrong thing i.e education
5. Personal Protective Equipment - can you wear something to minimise your risk if you do come into contact with the risk i.e a muzzle

Now you have to start from the top and choose the first one it is possible to do.

If only this advice was engraved in granite above the doors of both the herald sun and the age newspapers sports journalism depts

Wait, I'm grandstanding when you went off on a tangent about police brutality that we weren't even discussing.

Then somehow you are tying in my throwaway line about prison overcrowding to Eddie's gaffe. Take a breath.

As for PC leftie whackos, I've been on all sides of PC debates. I've felt the need to educate myself over the years as I didn't get it either most of the time. Let's just say I am more anti-bully than I am pro-political correctness. I'm more about taking a walk in someone else's shoes before you make a song and a dance about petty freedoms being taken away. I'm more about reserving some wriggle room for understanding rather than going full bore at an issue.

Eloquent

 

[PetterdHoisted]

What an absolute crock...

Eddie personally mentored JB through something very difficult.

The fact North were on top of the ladder and making serious profits is not fluke. Mate that was an incredibly risky and hard plan to execute. Eddie may be getting lazy and this was really stupid. But sorry I won't cop anything around what he did to help JB and North unless you show me proof.

I'm sure all you say is absolutely true!

I'm just telling you about a radio interview I heard long ago and made me very angry at the time, I've never heard anyone disrespect North like Eddie did that day. It must have been at some time when Collingwood wearing the black and white stripes only-and-ever was a big issue.

Rich clubs judging the acts of poorer clubs, never ends well.

 

[luthor]

What is gender specific about the act of drowning?

Nothing

Is it conceivable that a woman can be insulted or disliked without it being sexist?

Yes

Isn't Caroline Wilson somewhat undermining the 80+ years work that real feminists have done to get women in the public sphere, only to then recharacterise as sexist the kind of run-of-the-mill joke everyone else in the public sphere experiences regularly, and then demand that the public sphere be reshaped to her specific personal sensibilities?

Wow.

You have asked two simple questions that any reasonable person would answer the same way I have.

Then you have attempted, clearly and disingenuously, to use those answers as premises to arrive at a conclusion to a completely different argument.

In case you missed it, this entire debate has emanated not from anything Caro has said and done, but from ill-considered, stupid, thoughtless "jokes" perpetuated by Eddie and Mates Pty Ltd.

She was asked how she felt about these comments and she gave a truthful answer.

So what would you have preferred?

"AW SHUCKS, that's OK ....boys will be boys...after all I'm just a gal in a man's world"

How exactly has Caro "undermined" all this sterling work that "real" feminists have done?

What demands did Caro make????

Who else, male or female has been targeted in such a way as to suggest that a bunch of blokey media types would pay money to hold him/her underwater????

Yours is a typically aggressive stance that seeks to blame the victim for the crime.

 

[H2F]

I'm sure all you say is absolutely true!

I'm just telling you about a radio interview I heard long ago and made me very angry at the time, I've never heard anyone disrespect North like Eddie did that day. It must have been at some time when Collingwood wearing the black and white stripes only-and-ever was a big issue.

Rich clubs judging the acts of poorer clubs, never ends well.

Fair enough mate, but for all Eddie's stupidity around this and Goodes the results he's delivered at Collingwood and the mentoring of JB are incredible.

He probably should retire now but he won't let Caro determine the date. I'm mostly annoyed at him for the 'non apology' apology than anything else. Maybe he is just bored, it's hard to believe why he'd sell machine guns to the Caro mafia for one cent per gun.

 

[Joey longshadow]

Are Shorten or Trump targeted by newspapers for their politics or business actions or expressed opinions, because that is allowable. That's the media's job and they can counter back if the media get it wrong.

This was different.

There Is hypocricy present though
To have Malcolm Turnball come out and say this leads to violence against women .when he was a member of the opposition who was at best just silent when the whole Julia Gillard should be taken out to sea and drowned in a sack saga played out and the ditch the witch campaign that male and female coalition members thought was hilarious ..is frankly a little rich and smacks of political opportunism

Something to remember most people have an agenda

 

[FuManchu]

Fair enough mate, but for all Eddie's stupidity around this and Goodes the results he's delivered at Collingwood and the mentoring of JB are incredible.

He probably should retire now but he won't let Caro determine the date. I'm mostly annoyed at him for the 'non apology' apology than anything else. Maybe he is just bored, it's hard to believe why he'd sell machine guns to the Caro mafia for one cent per gun.

He's got plenty left to offer and he won't leave the job until he sets in place the next phase. Which most likely will be new coach and footballing dept. I give him another 3 years possibly.

 

[Chief]

I thought that was just rumour though because Eddie went to bat for North.

Was that actually true?

I had it from a person who picked up the sheets off the fax machine. Lee Matthews was also on there as far as I can recall - Brisbane were in the loop.