Society/Culture Q&A 2017

[Maggie5]

. . ummm, you brought it up?

Maggie5: 'I am curious why there is so much angst against Sharia Law/Courts '

I explained that the angst over Sharia Law itself was obvious, and gave reasons why.

Please stop jumping at shadows and accusing people of bias when they're just responding to YOUR questions.



There's no bias, it just isn't as big of a problem, due to numbers. I've mentioned this in the past, and with reference to Scientology as well, which is also a very small religion. Islam is definitely the most dangerous religion at this moment.

If someone had asked me that question, the answer would have been, "not everyone understands it and there too much misinformation of things that will never happen here". Not much to worry about.
Seems we are poles apart on this.

 

[Lethality]

If someone had asked me that question, the answer would have been, "not everyone understands it and there too much misinformation of things that will never happen here". Not much to worry about.
Seems we are poles apart on this.

You asked about why the angst exists, not why it shouldn't. Maybe your own bias is showing in your questioning and the answers you are trying to elicit.
There shouldn't be any particular concern about Sharia in Australia, at least outside of people who want to implement it, but the concern is about worldwide Sharia which is practiced in other countries as well. The world would be a much better place without it. And we should be concerned about Sharia courts. It should be interesting to see if England sets a precedent of sorts by getting rid of theirs.

 

[RW]

The angst over Sharia Law itself would be obvious, it's a brutal system that leads to killing, dismemberment, caning, etc for 'crimes' such as apostasy, homosexuality, or alcohol. Where is the Jewish equivalent for that?

A bit like the courts themselves. Beth Din are mostly about officialdom, such as recognition in the religion of foods, services, and people. It's the last which I have a problem with, and which is also used to enforce marriage upon women. We can talk about the Beth Din if you want, but with only 12 million or so Jews in the world, it's a much smaller problem right now.

Bit of a false equivalence comparing Sharia to Jewish law. Judaism explicitly states that only Jews are bound by Jewish laws - gentiles (non-Jews) have no obligation to comply with them and in fact are actually discouraged from following them, and as you said the Beth Din is mostly concerned with settling disputes between people and is not a substitute for the law of the land. It is not discriminatory - Jews can either choose to follow halacha (Jewish law), or not (I don't).

Having said that, the ill-informed rubbish being spouted by people like Jacqui Lambie about Sharia law taking over Australia is over the top and does more harm than good in my opinion. You are free to critique the ideology, and there are certainly aspects of Islam that are oppressive, but law-abiding Muslims are not the problem - Lambie has shot herself in the foot.

 

[RW]

My personal view is that people like Yasmin are selling out people who live under oppression due to Islam by saying it's feminist. In this case it's women. Imagine being a woman in Iran who is forced by the theocracy to wear the hijab, or even in Australia who is forced by her family to do so. Instead of addressing this problem, an obscurantist like Yasmin comes on TV and tells everyone that it's actually a feminist religion. It's not helping.

Agree, but if a woman chooses to wear the hijab because she wishes to dress modestly, then that is her right too. It's the same as Jewish women who cover their hair in public, but a different form. No woman should be forced to wear it though.

 

[GreyCrow]

1 Corinthians 11:5
And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head, for it is just as if her head were shaved.

1 Corinthians 11:7
A man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.

Those damn Christians telling a woman what to wear

 

[Lethality]

Having said that, the ill-informed rubbish being spouted by people like Jacqui Lambie about Sharia law taking over Australia is over the top and does more harm than good in my opinion. You are free to critique the ideology, and there are certainly aspects of Islam that are oppressive, but law-abiding Muslims are not the problem - Lambie has shot herself in the foot.

They were both ill-informed, Yassmin was sugar-coating her religion, and denying that the violence was representative of her faith. Her claim that Islam is the most feminist religion is the kind of argument that fundamentalist apologists make, and probably got drummed into her from an early age. Yet people actually applauded that nonsense.

 

[Ok Boomer]

NEVER EVER Read it any more.

Read the Guardian? just as bad, different side of politics.

I read both and meet in the middle

 

[Maggie5]

Read the Guardian? just as bad, different side of politics.

I read both and meet in the middle

Can't bring myself to add click numbers to Murdoch press.
Read The Conversation, The Guardian, ABC and Fairfax, that will do me.

 

[RW]

Her claim that Islam is the most feminist religion is the kind of argument that fundamentalist apologists make, and probably got drummed into her from an early age.

But for her and many others who practice Islam, it is. That's not her fault, she was just baited by Lambie's statement that everyone who supports Sharia law should be deported.

 

[Lethality]

But for her and many others who practice Islam, it is.

It takes an extreme lack of awareness. I can't imagine belonging to a religion that oppresses women and claiming it's feminist just because that is how I choose to practice it. Not to mention that a read through of the sources reveals that it's not a feminist religion anyway. The Qur'an says women are lesser than men, and that men are their maintainers, girls get 50% inheritance, men are allowed to strike their wives for disobedience, Muhammad took sex slaves, etc etc.

That's not her fault, she was just baited by Lambie's statement that everyone who supports Sharia law should be deported.

It's no excuse for not being aware that Sharia is a barbaric law as well as personal practice. She's in denial, and when told about the killing of homosexuals and so forth, she claimed it wasn't her religion, except it is.

 

[RW]

It's no excuse for not being aware that Sharia is a barbaric law as well as personal practice. She's in denial, and when told about the killing of homosexuals and so forth, she claimed it wasn't her religion, except it is.

Her experience of Islam is still her experience, though. It's not that easy to persuade someone to change their view.

 

[Maggie5]

Her experience of Islam is still her experience, though. It's not that easy to persuade someone to change their view.

What a pleasure it has been reading your posts. Sadly I let my emotions get ahead of me as I have been on about this for some time.

In particular your following comment, "You are free to critique the ideology, and there are certainly aspects of Islam that are oppressive, but law-abiding Muslims are not the problem - Lambie has shot herself in the foot."

 

[Lethality]

Her experience of Islam is still her experience, though. It's not that easy to persuade someone to change their view.

Sure, * everyone else's experience as long as yours was ok. Catholic church doesn't have a pedophile problem because a priest never touched me. As a celebrity in Scientology they treat me well and I don't get beaten and make a few dollars a week for slave labour in the Sea Org, Sharia is just personal practice because I don't think homosexuals and apostates should be killed or that people should be caned for drinking alcohol. LOL

 

[RW]

Sure, **** everyone else's experience as long as yours was ok. Catholic church doesn't have a pedophile problem because a priest never touched me. As a celebrity in Scientology they treat me well and I don't get beaten and make a few dollars a week for slave labour in the Sea Org, Sharia is just personal practice because I don't think homosexuals and apostates should be killed or that people should be caned for drinking alcohol. LOL

I didn't say her view of Islam was the correct one

 

[GreyCrow]

I can't imagine belonging to a religion that oppresses women and claiming it's feminist just because that is how I choose to practice it. Not to mention that a read through of the sources reveals that it's not a feminist religion anyway. The Qur'an says women are lesser than men, and that men are their maintainers, girls get 50% inheritance, men are allowed to strike their wives for disobedience, Muhammad took sex slaves, etc etc. .

1 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 45 helpful votes

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Ephesians 5:22 ESV / 29 helpful votes

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

Titus 2:9 ESV / 22 helpful votes

Slaves are to be submissive to their own

Titus 2:3-5 ESV / 14 helpful votes

Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children

Leviticus 25:44 ESV / 9 helpful votes

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

 

[RW]

What a pleasure it has been reading your posts. Sadly I let my emotions get ahead of me as I have been on about this for some time.

It's ok you're on BigFooty, that's what this place is for

 

[Lethality]

1 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 45 helpful votes

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Ephesians 5:22 ESV / 29 helpful votes

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

Titus 2:9 ESV / 22 helpful votes

Slaves are to be submissive to their own

Titus 2:3-5 ESV / 14 helpful votes

Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children

Leviticus 25:44 ESV / 9 helpful votes

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

I'm not a Jew or a Christian either.

 

[BORK]

1 Timothy 2:11-12 ESV / 45 helpful votes

Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.

Ephesians 5:22 ESV / 29 helpful votes

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord.

Titus 2:9 ESV / 22 helpful votes

Slaves are to be submissive to their own

Titus 2:3-5 ESV / 14 helpful votes

Older women likewise are to be reverent in behavior, not slanderers or slaves to much wine. They are to teach what is good, and so train the young women to love their husbands and children

Leviticus 25:44 ESV / 9 helpful votes

As for your male and female slaves whom you may have: you may buy male and female slaves from among the nations that are around you.

What is the bet a certain moderator would have deleted your posts by now and warned others not to do the same if you were cherry picking parts of the Koran.

 

[GreyCrow]

I'm not a Jew or a Christian either.

Nor a Muslim I take it, but you feel ok to mention the Quran in dispatches but not rail against the Bible.

 

[GreyCrow]

What is the bet a certain moderator would have deleted your posts by now and warned others not to do the same if you were cherry picking parts of the Koran.

But ( apart from the moderation) this is the point I was hoping to make. Its easy to cherry pick passages and verses in any religious text.

 

[BORK]

But ( apart from the moderation) this is the point I was hoping to make. Its easy to cherry pick passages and verses in any religious text.

You actually demonstrate the progressiveness of the vast majority of christian people in not flat out following some of the outdated controversial scriptures and further highlighted the backwardness of a large amount of Muslims who do hold the values of some of the more questionable parts of the Koran.

 

[GreyCrow]

You actually demonstrate the progressiveness of the vast majority of christian people in not flat out following some of the outdated controversial scriptures and further highlighted the backwardness of a large amount of Muslims who do hold the values of some of the more questionable parts of the Koran.

Westboro Baptist Likes This

 

[Lethality]

Nor a Muslim I take it, but you feel ok to mention the Quran in dispatches but not rail against the Bible.

They weren't talking about Christianity on Q&A, and there wasn't a Christian there making similarly dubious claims about their religion.

 

[Lethality]

You actually demonstrate the progressiveness of the vast majority of christian people in not flat out following some of the outdated controversial scriptures and further highlighted the backwardness of a large amount of Muslims who do hold the values of some of the more questionable parts of the Koran.

It's easier to ignore the sexism in the Bible, a lot of it is restricted to a time and place, whereas the Qur'an is a lot more open ended, and is universally thought of as being literally authored by God. So there is a lot more literalism with Islam, which is an issue.

 

[WA ROO]

Westboro Baptist Likes This

Ahh The Westboro Baptist Church
The group that unites everyone together
In despising them
Everyone from LGBTQI groups to the KKK dismisses TWBC
So trying to equate them as the christian version of anything is laughable