List Mgmt. Gibbs - 2017 trade discussions! (Gibbs swapped for Wigg or 2nd)

[marty36]

So he's kicking more goals at Carlton than he ever did at adelaide because they aren't playing him in the forward line?

You think Menzel's 14 pos 1 goal is a good game but Mackays 12 pos 3 goals is a bad game?

Shows how stats mean F all, but they are brought up so many times, Imagine comparing Macleods stats to Shane Woewofull (brownlow Medalist none less) to someone who had never seen either of them play!

 

[Pdub]

Menzel played as a forward with the occasional burst off the back of the pack at the centre bounces.

According to Champion data 50% of his disposals were in the back half of the ground, not the back of the square, he had just as many disposals in the back 50 as he did in the front 50.

Mackay played as WINGMAN and has 13 possessions and kicked 3 goals.

So you've finally got access to what he was told to do by Pyke now? good share it with us. Finally, you can tell us how you know exactly what his role in the side was and aren't just making shit up.

 

[Elite Crow]

According to Champion data 50% of his disposals were in the back half of the ground, not the back of the square, he had just as many disposals in the back 50 as he did in the front 50.



So you've finally got access to what he was told to do by Pyke now? good share it with us. Finally, you can tell us how you know exactly what his role in the side was and aren't just making shit up.

Like you made up that he was cooling Rioli?

I watched Mackay very closely when I watched the replay, you know what I saw? Exactly what I saw at the game. Lots of running around, not cooling anyone and not impacting the contest. He played SHIT until 3 mins to go of the third and the last.

If you think his game was designed by Pyke then you must think Pyke is an idiot. As for not knowing what Pykes instructions were, none of us know, just like we don't know about any of his instructions to the other players or any other coaches instructions. But guess what? Plenty of players have played shit and it's not because we didn't know what the coaches instructions were. That's an idiotic position you've taken.

 

[Pdub]

Like you made up that he was cooling Rioli?

I watched Mackay very closely when I watched the replay, you know what I saw? Exactly what I saw at the game. Lots of running around, not cooling anyone and not impacting the contest. He played SHIT until 3 mins to go of the third and the last.

If you think his game was designed by Pyke then you must think Pyke is an idiot. As for not knowing what Pykes instructions were, none of us know, just like we don't know about any of his instructions to the other players or any other coaches instructions. But guess what? Plenty of players have played shit and it's not because we didn't know what the coaches instructions were. That's an idiotic position you've taken.

I didn't say I knew what his role was like you did, I said I saw him cooling rioli, as did a few other posters. This is evidence that points to your statement that he was a pure wingman being full of shit. That's all it is.

So you have access to the down the ground replay that shows what every player is doing? you're full of shit.

 

[Elite Crow]

I didn't say I knew what his role was like you did, I said I saw him cooling rioli, as did a few other posters. This is evidence that points to your statement that he was a pure wingman being full of shit. That's all it is.

So you have access to the down the ground replay that shows what every player is doing? you're full of shit.

Have you ever thought a player played shit? Because you mustn't have because you don't know the coaches instructions or have access to the down the ground replay.

Surely you can see how idiotic your position is.

 

[Pdub]

Have you ever thought a player played shit? Because you mustn't have because you don't know the coaches instructions or have access to the down the ground replay.

Surely you can see how idiotic your position is.

I'm not saying you need down the ground replay to see a player having a bad game. But you do to make your claims that he was never anywhere near Rioli. Especially when people on this board said that they saw him cooling him at points in the game. You're the one making the statements, I've only pointed out things you didn't see, that point to you not seeing the whole picture.

You're argument boils down to "nuh-uh" "nope" "nuh-uh" "i hate mackay" "i watched a replay" "nope" now that's idiotic.

 

[Elite Crow]

I'm not saying you need down the ground replay to see a player having a bad game. But you do to make your claims that he was never anywhere near Rioli. Especially when people on this board said that they saw him cooling him at points in the game. You're the one making the statements, I've only pointed out things you didn't see, that point to you not seeing the whole picture.

You're argument boils down to "nuh-uh" "nope" "nuh-uh" "i hate mackay" "i watched a replay" "nope" now that's idiotic.

How many that said they saw Mackay cooling Rioli were at the game?

Those same people who said they saw Mackay cooling Rioli only watched it on TV, same as me. I watched the replay once and watched the second and third quarters again. If he was cooling Rioli as you and others claimed I would like to know when this actually happened and for how long.

No my argument boils down to our wingman having 4 possessions to half time and doing nothing until 3 mins to go of the third qtr. Like I said, he ran around a lot with no gain. Did I imagine him running doing nothing?

So have you ever criticised a player or thought they played poorly without knowing the coaches instructions?

 

[1970crow]

People are underrating Gibbs to alleviate some of their disappointment that the deal fell through

That's obviously just a flat out fabrication. The people 'underating' Gibbs are the same that didn't want to pay 2 firsts in the first place. If anything, the overaters have now deluded themselves into believing he was worth 2 firsts, when their original view was likely to want him for a 1st and 2nd. I think every week our midfield doesn't get embarrassed Gibbs ability goes up a notch.

Here it is in a nutshell, I feel like I'm talking to that Kruezering bloke, the club made the right decision, let it go, he wasn't worth what was being asked.

 

[Scorpus]

That's obviously just a flat out fabrication. The people 'underating' Gibbs are the same that didn't want to pay 2 firsts in the first place. If anything, the overaters have now deluded themselves into believing he was worth 2 firsts, when their original view was likely to want him for a 1st and 2nd. I think every week our midfield doesn't get embarrassed Gibbs ability goes up a notch.

No. Some people are suggesting in this thread that Gibbs wouldn't be our second best mid. That's clearly not true.

 

[huludicidal]

How many that said they saw Mackay cooling Rioli were at the game?

Those same people who said they saw Mackay cooling Rioli only watched it on TV, same as me. I watched the replay once and watched the second and third quarters again. If he was cooling Rioli as you and others claimed I would like to know when this actually happened and for how long.

No my argument boils down to our wingman having 4 possessions to half time and doing nothing until 3 mins to go of the third qtr. Like I said, he ran around a lot with no gain. Did I imagine him running doing nothing?

So have you ever criticised a player or thought they played poorly without knowing the coaches instructions?

I was at the game. Mackay was garbage until the last few mins of the 3rd qtr, and I'm not quite sure how anyone can argue with this. He also didn't play on Rioli for anything resembling a significant amount of time.

 

[Pdub]

How many that said they saw Mackay cooling Rioli were at the game?

Those same people who said they saw Mackay cooling Rioli only watched it on TV, same as me. I watched the replay once and watched the second and third quarters again. If he was cooling Rioli as you and others claimed I would like to know when this actually happened and for how long.

No my argument boils down to our wingman having 4 possessions to half time and doing nothing until 3 mins to go of the third qtr. Like I said, he ran around a lot with no gain. Did I imagine him running doing nothing?

So have you ever criticised a player or thought they played poorly without knowing the coaches instructions?

There are times when the coaches instructions are obvious, the evidence points to it not being obvious in Mackay's case.

Would you not think doing what the coach says to do an important part of weighing up how a player went?
If the player was told to do something entirely different to what you thought they were trying to do would that not make your assessment wrong?


I'm not responding anymore, this has nothing to do with Gibbs.

 

[1970crow]

I think it's more a case of people justifying why we didn't overspend to get him. That would have made me much more disappointed.

I don't even think it's that. There's been no justification from that side at all. Prior to trade week almost nobody wanted to pay 2 firsts. The only revisionism is from the get him at all costs crowd who are now conveniently ignoring the asking price.

 

[1970crow]

No. Some people are suggesting in this thread that Gibbs wouldn't be our second best mid. That's clearly not true.

24 touches per game from a full time mid doesn't put him ahead of Matty Crouch's role or Brad Crouch when up and running. Or any other decent mid playing full time midfield minutes. Goes 60% by foot, he's not exactly clinical. And some of you are suggesting he's miles ahead of 3rd, it's just rubbish. He just keeps getting better every week, it's astounding.

 

[TexForPM]

I have had a theory for a while now and it's looking plausible so probably worth discussion. Have we ALL been overrating the importance of the Midfield ??? assuming we keep McGovern and Lever...I rate our attack and defence as one of the best in the league. Bearing in mind the salary cap prevents anyone from having A grade guns in all 18 positions on the ground....surely your better off being able to score a goal...or prevent a goal...than have an extra few centre clearances that have ZERO impact on the score board if your forwards and backs are spuds. Obviously you need some quality in the middle...which we have. But we also have a VERY inexperienced midfield, Crouch, Milera, Hampton, Atkins, Cameron....yet we still looked comfortable against quality midfields of GWS and Hawthorne. We lost the best midfield player in the comp and a Brownlow medalist in Dangerflog ...but did'nt drop down the ladder at all? ....Brad Couch ...considered by many to be our second best midfielder behind Sloan is nowhere to be seen...are we getting smashed as a result? ....nope! ...where is all the doom and gloom we were all predicting in the off season? ....in the day and age I would suggest all teams have deficiencies ....but 9 out of 10 games are won or lost across half back and half forward...this is where the modern game is won or lost. NOT in the midfield. Crows half back - Smith, Talia, Laird. Crows half forwards - Lynch, Walker, McGovern. This is where we win each week...this is modern football. We don't need to spend our money on mids...we have all the mids we need to break even in the middle...the smart money is spent in defence and up forward. Sign McGovern and Lever....and the 3rd premiership is not far away. Excessive spending in the midfield is a sure way to be competitive...but will always leave you a key defender or forward short....and cost more games than any perceived gap in the midfield.

Agree.
Everyone is putting a lot of reliance on midfield to be a GF contender.
Yet, collingwood with the best midfield has horrid forward 50 and back 50 quality. They constantly turn it over and they get scored against heavily.
Ok I realise Buckley may just be a spud but everyone saying the midfield is the be all and end all may not be what everyone thinks.

We likely get Gibbs this year hope we don't give up what they want.
But if it's Gibbs over one of those big name FAs then see ya Carlton. Should have done the deal.

 

[Elite Crow]

There are times when the coaches instructions are obvious, the evidence points to it not being obvious in Mackay's case.

Would you not think doing what the coach says to do an important part of weighing up how a player went?
If the player was told to do something entirely different to what you thought they were trying to do would that not make your assessment wrong?


I'm not responding anymore, this has nothing to do with Gibbs.

Good but you are the only one who thinks the coaches instructions weren't obvious. You made it up to defend Mackay, it is another one of your Janus theories.

 

[Vhaluus]

Even if I concede Gibbs was worth a first and a second last year (though I dont actually agree with this) he has lost probably 1/4 of his remaining playing time at a high level.

So if it was a first and second last year, lop off 1/4 of his value and this year it must be a second and a third.

 

[mistylake]

Paragraphs are your friend.

Watch out, LCB has big friends.

 

[Pdub]

Mods you can clean up the off topic stuff, I apologise for arguing with a lump of fired clay.

 

[mistylake]

Who's fault is it he came here unfit?

Wasn't he carrying an injury?

 

[marty36]

Wasn't he carrying an injury?

Mental disorder he was addicted to donuts


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[1970crow]

I was at the game. Mackay was garbage until the last few mins of the 3rd qtr, and I'm not quite sure how anyone can argue with this. He also didn't play on Rioli for anything resembling a significant amount of time.

I saw him by Rioli's side as a couple of midfield stoppages sorted themselves out. I was interested enough in this to watch it unfold and see Rioli then run free and Dmac not go with him. He's either shit at it or Rioli was just the nearest match up at that stoppage.

 

[Pdub]

Robbo reckons GC and Geelong would have already worked out the GAJ trade, I wonder if the AFC and Carlton have too and that's why Carlton have now publicly accepted he will ask to leave again at the end of the year.

It would make sense from Carlton's point of view, because from Gibbs' point of view the better he plays this year, the harder it would be for him to get home, so he loses some motivation to give 110%. So if Carlton were able to say to Gibbs "we've agreed to a price with the AFC regardless of how you perform this year", it would put him in the best mindset to play the best football he can play in 2016. The AFC also doesn't want him having a blinder of a year and skyrocketing his price so it would make sense for them to lock in a price as early as possible.

 

[marty36]

I don't even think it's that. There's been no justification from that side at all. Prior to trade week almost nobody wanted to pay 2 firsts. The only revisionism is from the get him at all costs crowd who are now conveniently ignoring the asking price.

Anyone that believes he is worth 2 firsts in general terms is insane, my concern is our premiership window is ticking and we need an edge in the mid to take advantage of it, so yes paying overs for a quality player that actually wants to come to Adelaide may be worth the risk

 

[Bicks]

Robbo reckons GC and Geelong would have already worked out the GAJ trade, I wonder if the AFC and Carlton have too and that's why Carlton have now publicly accepted he will ask to leave again at the end of the year.

It would make sense from Carlton's point of view, because from Gibbs' point of view the better he plays this year, the harder it would be for him to get home, so he loses some motivation to give 110%. So if Carlton were able to say to Gibbs "we've agreed to a price with the AFC regardless of how you perform this year", it would put him in the best mindset to play the best football he can play in 2016. The AFC also doesn't want him having a blinder of a year and skyrocketing his price so it would make sense for them to lock in a price as early as possible.

Nah, don't go as hard as Carlton did then all of sudden go into retreat mode and make it easy to get him next time around, he'll have devalued no doubt but it will take a 1st pick or a 2nd and a borderline best 22 player to loosen him away still IMO

 

[Shaz2012]

Nah, don't go as hard as Carlton did then all of sudden go into retreat mode and make it easy to get him next time around, he'll have devalued no doubt but it will take a 1st pick or a 2nd and a borderline best 22 player to loosen him away still IMO

How about we trade them Gibbs for Menzel?