Autopsy Swans vs Eagles

[Wolftone]

Lloyd getting 29 possessions would not bother an opposition coach at all

He is a solid player and thats harsh, but his kicking stinks

He averages 89% disposal efficiency. He is our bast player by far this year. I have not seen one post from you that is positive about Lloyd. I think you just have a bee in your bonnet about him. A blinkered view so to speak. This guy will give 100% then 100% more. He is one of our top 5 players. Take him out of the side and we'd be a 5 goal worse side.

 

[The King!]

He averages 89% disposal efficiency. He is our bast player by far this year. I have not seen one post from you that is positive about Lloyd. I think you just have a bee in your bonnet about him. A blinkered view so to speak. This guy will give 100% then 100% more. He is one of our top 5 players. Take him out of the side and we'd be a 5 goal worse side.

Lol what i continually have said he is a good player even in that post I said he was solid

You can read the stat sheet if you like but DE is a rubbish stat lets be honest, id rather watch the game

He is mr consistent i agree but if he is a top 5 player in a team it is not winning much

 

[db swannie]

Whats next week pencilled as?

I'm hoping for a 10 goal loss.

 

[YorshireSwan]

Cunningham leading our tackle count says it all for me. We used to pride ourselves on our defensive pressure and thirst for the contest, we've only won the tackle count once this year against port. This is a massive concern.

 

[Wolftone]

I thought Smith tried against Lecras but the whole defence looks like deer in the headlights with how often the ball is coming down compared to last season.

Hayward terrific, Marsh is becoming a reliable defender (is that bad) you can just see it out there the whole team is second guessing themselves.

Not sure how we can win a game struggling to kick over 9-10 goals??

Smithy was so far behind LeCras that other players had to chase him. Aliir, Marsh, Lloydy & Newman at different times had to pick up the slack. Smithy was crap.

 

[Number37]

Geez Hayward looked class last night.

Not true, our list is cooked.
We have not any good youngsters.
Priority pick please AFL.

 

[Wolftone]

Love a structure that forces Lloyd to wait for 10 seconds after a mark on 50 because he has to wait for some fwds to run past him.

Yep that's not good. A coach who falls for the three card trick every time. FLOOD, FLOOD, FLOOD. But how the **** do you get it out with every player in the opposition forward 50. Dumb coaching!

 

[J_Moore]

One player I am worried about is Hewett. That first half of the 2nd round in particular he looked on the verge of making a big jump in class/contribution, but I feel like the last two rounds he's gone backwards a bit.

 

[Johnboi]

At one stage in the final quarter, Sam Reid took a mark on the wing and went to play on but couldn't. I'm certain he mouthed something about needing movement up forward. If my memory is right, he then turned it over as he had no forward options.

As for kizza, I will be shocked if horse drops or "rests" him next week. He seems immune to it, even though he has been underperforming for ages now.

 

[Tuco]

As a generalisation we position for either short disposals (20m kicks, 5m handpasses) - or for long kicks. But we really struggle to accurately hit up targets with midrange disposals.

In fact we rarely see players doing it unless it's a rote scenario like a standard switch.

This could be an inexperience thing, but I see Parker, Hanners, Lloyd and Grundy doing it so I'd say it's a training and skills issue.

What does this mean?

It means we bunch together and receive possession under pressure a LOT.

It means the opposition can bypass our zone because so many players are pushing off their man to help if there's a turnover.

It also means we spread by handpass chains and running rather than accurate kicking with the attendant relieving mark which would otherwise let us stop and reassess.

But most of all it means when we do try on a mid-range kick (like turning the ball back to the corridor from the wing, or trying to spot up a leading optiob) we rarely kick to advantage and it's often turnover city. Execution is not up to scratch.

I'd really like us to fix this problem. It's no fun watching the boys bust a gut to get it forward then watch the opposition move it right back to our defensive 50 with 3 accurate kicks.

Forwards aren't really encouraged to stand in position because they basically have little chance off seeing a pass. They need to push up and find their own footy.

 

[bedford]

Goodbye for now, unwatching this thread. Can't say anymore.

 

[RUNVS]

Just checked and there are only 2 Swans players who played yesterday who did not have a clanger, and those two players were Foote and Newman.

6 clangers - Sinclair, Parker, Jones
4 clangers - Aliir, Kennedy, Hewett, Lloyd, Smith, Grundy
3 clangers - Jack, Hayward, Florent, Papley
2 clangers - Mills, Franklin
1 clanger - Fox, Marsh, Reid, Cunningham, Hannebery

 

[Heeney2Franklin]

Goodbye for now, unwatching this thread. Can't say anymore.

Howcome?

 

[cinderella man]

Yep even when we won the flag our skills were pretty ordinary

Its only gotten worse as a collective

Not picking on Grundy tonight, well yeah guess I am but how standing alone can you continually miss 10-15 metre short passes to a target in defence

Like as you say kids in the park hit those

I played at A Grade Suburban Level until I was 38 and **** me blokes playing in the twos would hit targets the majority of our players can't hit and in a lot of cases its our supposed upper end players that are the main culprits. It is like a footballer that is not quick. You are either born with speed or you aren't but if your not you can try and improve, diet, fitness, running technique with running coach whatever the **** it takes and you may never be Carl Lewis but with the right application you can improve even a ilttle bit. Take Josh Kennedy for example and this is not a knock on him because without him **** knows where we would be but do the coaches ever pick up in reviews that every time he kicks to a leading target he kicks the ******* ball a foot off the ground with what can only be described as a worm burning scud missile that hits the intended targets ******* toenails ? Do they see it ? Do they talk to him and talk about his technique ? Do they make him go out with the skills coach and simulate those kicks and match scenarios ? Are we as a club coaching these players to improve their biggest weaknesses with the professionalism that the club is revered for ? The evidence says to me No because there has been zero ******* improvement for a long time now in that area and i actually believe it is getting to the stage where it has deteriorated to the extent it is costing us games we should be winning comfortably not to mention the big picture of opportunity to win
premierships.

Btw Kennedy has merely been used as an example here not a scapegoat because blokes like Hanneberry & Parker kick the football far worse the majority of the time and they should not be mentioned in the same paragraph as for what Kennedy brings to this side.

 

[Jack2Jack]

I don't think Horse needs to go, 3 GF's has probably earned him at least through the start of a mini-rebuild, but we probably need an assistant from a club with a very different game style to offer some new perspective.
The game-plan needs some evolution, clearly, we're always out of position....we desperately need some actual structure in our set ups......and he doesn't pull the trigger and make moves if we're just hanging in, even though it's clear we're only moments away from a dam wall burst.

We need to be more proactive, and create headaches for opposition coaches, not reactive to every trick and new tactic they try.

When we're in trouble it's always, Reid to defence/wing, Buddy to wing, those aren't match winning tactics, in fact moving them away from dangerous positions and targeting outnumbered smalls up front doesn't nothing but play into the oppositions hands. I don't understand why we choose to handy cap ourselves all the time trying to save games that are slipping away?
The effort has been there, but it would be better to be losing playing the right style of footy that will evolve into a match winning style as the kids develop.

Won't all happen over night, but for the love of god at least address the kick ins over the week....same tactic every single time, always to an outnumbered contest as well and usually to the oppositions advantage for an easy mark.

 

[The King!]

Even the best coach has a shelf life at the one club imo, wether horse is there or not is a separate topic

But he should be closer to the end than the start

 

[Membling]

Even the best coach has a shelf life at the one club imo, wether horse is there or not is a separate topic

But he should be closer to the end than the start

If he doesnt use this "down" period to shake things up, then questions need to be raised.

 

[cinderella man]

I don't think Horse needs to go, 3 GF's has probably earned him at least through the start of a mini-rebuild, but we probably need an assistant from a club with a very different game style to offer some new perspective.
The game-plan needs some evolution, clearly, we're always out of position....we desperately need some actual structure in our set ups......and he doesn't pull the trigger and make moves if we're just hanging in, even though it's clear we're only moments away from a dam wall burst.

We need to be more proactive, and create headaches for opposition coaches, not reactive to every trick and new tactic they try.

When we're in trouble it's always, Reid to defence/wing, Buddy to wing, those aren't match winning tactics, in fact moving them away from dangerous positions and targeting outnumbered smalls up front doesn't nothing but play into the oppositions hands. I don't understand why we choose to handy cap ourselves all the time trying to save games that are slipping away?
The effort has been there, but it would be better to be losing playing the right style of footy that will evolve into a match winning style as the kids develop.

Won't all happen over night, but for the love of god at least address the kick ins over the week....same tactic every single time, always to an outnumbered contest as well and usually to the oppositions advantage for an easy mark.

Neither do I but he needs to stop talking shit like " We need to be better " in the media and pull his ******* finger out and coach them to be better not ******* talk about it. It's his ******* job. Coaching is teaching & developing and that means improving weakness. If the list is not capable of improvement if the coaching is trying to do that then it still falls back on them because they ******* compiled it.

 

[Punts]

Imo it's time for dew , playfair the port fella to go

 

[Old Kenny]

I noticed at one stage we had a mark on the wing/half forward. The camera angle had us looking toward our forward line. Not one player was leading into space or leading up through the "web" to drag player out to create space in behind them. It's unrewarded running to help your mate and its stuff that's easy to do. And that's why I think our troubles are more above the shoulders than players injured or out of form. I'm also wondering if horse's relationship with the players is not that great.

 

[ashep]

At one stage in the final quarter, Sam Reid took a mark on the wing and went to play on but couldn't. I'm certain he mouthed something about needing movement up forward. If my memory is right, he then turned it over as he had no forward options.

As for kizza, I will be shocked if horse drops or "rests" him next week. He seems immune to it, even though he has been underperforming for ages now.

Haha "move" whilst rolling his wrist over is a vintage Reid move. Like seriously, he does it all the time.

Buddy was screaming for the ball open in the centre but Sam brushed him.

Certainly not discounting your broader point, don't get me wrong

 

[Tedeski]

Jack looks cooked like McVeigh

I think you may be right Bedders but I fear that even with them looking cooked, they stay in our best 22 because we are down so many experienced players. What is happening here with our team is that there are players getting a game because of our predicament. Depth needs to be built & we are now doing that with the newbies.
Once our senior players become available again in the back half of the season, I believe the two players that must hold their spots are Fox & Hayward.
All other new players then need to perform at their best for 6 consevutive weeks. This was done with Dan Hanneberry in his first season before he was even considered for a senior game. They need to be knocking down the door in the lower level. Ollie Florent shows glimpses but the kid needs to go back & dominate that lower comp.

McVeigh, if fit, can still organise & execute basic skills down back, perhaps the line where we are breaking down with young Mills out of form with his kicking. At Hawthorn, it is Birchall & without his disposal coming off half back, they looked shocking last week.
One level headed player makes all the difference. It settles the group & keeps it organised. An on ground coach in other words.
Hawks had Mitchell, Lewis & Hodge but now they don't & they are a mess.

Swans had Rampe down back so now that we don't Grundy & Smith are not coping. So I'm thinking/hoping that Macca back there can help a little to at least organise things again.

That we only lost by 26 says heaps about our ticker so I know we haven't given up in a game. That in itself leaves me confident we will turn things around.

 

[caesar88]

For all the: play the kids stuff. Barbone or two, the kids have been pretty shit for 80% of each match. Hewett, Fox, Florent, Foote, Aliir & Papley hardly lighting the world on fire, and still contributing much less than the maligned senior players (who have been pretty shit)

But that's the thing. You expect kids to make mistakes, fade in and out of games, have minimal impact etc. I'm fine with that. What i'm not fine with are senior guys playing ridiculously below their standard. The kids can all improve and i'm betting they will but I can't see how Grundy, Jack, Smith etc are just going to miraculously rediscover their form. Hurts to say it but the way for them is the NEAFL. You can't excuse 4 crap games in a row from a senior player, but you can excuse 4 crap games from a kid

 

[Tedeski]

Just turned on the TV and the replay was on. Turned it off after 5 seconds after Jones failed a basic 20m kick. Our skills are so poor, often not even afl quality.
Let's be honest, when Hannebery, Parker, Jack are all up and about, Rohan, Heeney and Papley are fit, we play well but our gameplay is fundamentally broken and stupid. It's hack forward at all costs- No looking for an outside option, no hit up 10-15m lead - just gain distance.

The players' ability (bar kicking skills) and hardwork mask over our deficiencies.
How long are we going to persevere with this 12 man midfield? Anyone can see it only makes it harder to get it out of defence, when no one has any space to make any movement. When buddy gets the ball in the centre square and reid is next to him, something is wrong. If this is a player's problem, how hard is it to direct 2-3 forwards to stay in the forwardline at all costs?
Just an absolute waste. It's frustrating because we've seen it for years. The freo final in 2013, the early games in 2014, most of 2015, now.... when we dont have our stars on the park or in form, our gameplan gets exposed badly. Even the amateurs in the commentary box picked up on our issues nonchalantly
Cant really fault out player's development over the past few years but Horse is questionable on gameday

Injuries and niggles aside, i want to see one/1/un/ichi/(i) game where we play with a genuine forwardline, retain possession and create space

If any of our players lack the basic skill of hitting a target 75% of the time, irrespective of how many times they touch the ball, then when the time comes for contract renewal, they have no right to demand more than 400k & I'd say good luck to you if you can get it elsewhere. Now Zac Jones last night, for all his good hard work of winning the ball & then breaking the lines, the turnovers killed us. He was not alone. Real good hard work all undone with a poor final disposal. It's a merry go round now with how players want to move clubs for more money. Should Zac want to move on tor more money than he is actually worth, I don't think we would have any choice other than to let him go. Tom Mitchell style.

 

[RUNVS]

Just checked and we are 17th in effective disposal percentage. We are ahead of Carlton but behind Brisbane. Also need to remember Carlton just played a game in the wet last week which probably hurt their effective disposals.