Bluemour Discussion Thread IV

[Blueballs38]

He may have 5-7 years left, but he is out of contract at the end of 2019 and could/probably leave as a UFA, compensation would not be anywhere near what we he is worth now

Good point

 

[Blueballs38]

Extend his contract three years .... simples

 

[PoultryinMotion]

I know this wasn't the point of your post but dam I reckon SOSOS is going to be a massive steal at 53.

Neat skills, good footy iq and good hands just needs to put on muscle. Also has the competitiveness and desperation in defence we are after...he's always chasing, smothering etc

Last week showed he can kick them from 50m and snap goals from ground level.

Probsbly never be a star but a very very good footballer crucial to our forward line.

I'm still trying to work him out. He is slowish although he seems to get clear often, he loses his feet in contests but he makes a decent contest and what I once saw as being too casual I'm starting to see as composure - particularly with his hands. One things for sure, if he plays the mandatory father/son 100 games he will be considered a massive steal at 53!

 

[Juddrockz]

Good Carlton supporter is scoop.
Surely he wouldn't lead us up the garden path.

It could be wishful thinking too like the rest of us.
I hope his mail is right.

 

[viking12]

pick 3 is enough for Kelly.

 

[gandaal]

194 when he was drafted. Charlie will have probably grown a couple cms too

Curnow is a fair bit better than Kennedy at the same age too

 

[JustaBattler]

I'm still trying to work him out. He is slowish although he seems to get clear often, he loses his feet in contests but he makes a decent contest and what I once saw as being too casual I'm starting to see as composure - particularly with his hands. One things for sure, if he plays the mandatory father/son 100 games he will be considered a massive steal at 53!

He is playing a few kilos 'short' of his height so he can get moved off line fairly easily by bigger players - same as most kids do. No doubting his competitive nature at contests though.
He is a lanky runner not an explosive runner but is smarter than most kids so runs to the right places to present - does that better than any other 'forward' we have atm.
He is very composed - brain years ahead of physical development - and he will be an outstanding kick for goal.

He is playing way above his physical development and is paying for it already. with shoulders already needing heavy strapping.

 

[PoultryinMotion]

I'll take 191cm Fevola over any 200cm full forward in the history of the game. I challenge you to name ONE 200cm+ forward better than Fevola was. And if you can find that one, then go and compare him to Tony Locket who was also 191cm.

192cm isn't a third marking type just because of the height. They're usually a third marking type when they aren't as good as the 2 other targets playing in the forward line.

Unfortunately the different era thing comes into play here. In competitive games in those days FFs would kick 50% of the teams score such was the direct, open style of the game. Nowdays there is a greater spread of opportunistic goal scorers. I do note however that teams only really started dropping players enmasse into backline holes after Plugger retired!

 

[Weiterbot23]

Extend his contract for a year, make it 500k a season ..... simples .... he's worth that at least.

So pay him 1 million extra for 1 more year?

Stuff that.

I don't think he's age fits our window, but if we really want to keep him, the best way to do it would refuse to release him from his current contract, then just offer him market value after that.

Doubt he'd leave if the dollars were the same.

 

[zeeCFC]

pick 3 is enough for Kelly.

No it isn't

 

[passmark]

Just a thought on the argument that Gibbs out and Kelly in means we get a player who will last much much longer. Unfortunately it doesn't always work that way.

If you look at the careers of their fathers you'll see that Ross Gibbs played footy for Glenelg (after almost 100 games for West Perth, man he was good for us) until he was 38, and most of that was high quality footy.

Phil Kelly was shelved and dusted by 28 after staring in the WAFL early (two Sandovers) he went to Norf and had a middling career of 62 games.

 

[Robertio]

All dozen of them?

Bulldust i saw them all in the same place, there was thirteen of them.

 

[passmark]

For the time he has been on SEN this year i'd say his track record is pretty good.

Possibly, but they crossed to him regarding him having some "news" about the Kelly situation.

His scoop was words to the effect of "GWS would be getting concerned Kelly hasn't signed" not "GWS are concerned Kelly hasn't signed" , and that's because he didn't really have any info from GWS. The rest of his blurb was about shit that everyone knows. SOS's relationship with Kelly, Melb boy, Carlton reported as front runners etc etc.

Nothing scoopish in it apart from (and this is probably news worthy) SOS had met with Kelly's management again, which should have been the story, as minor and routine as that is.

 

[Arr0w]

They'd dominate in this era too. Ablett Sr was 185cm. All three would be the best forwards in the game today no doubt about it.

Betts and Gray are pushing the Coleman leaderboard ffs.

You say 195cm+ Charlie Curnow is 194cm, that extra 1cm of height matters does it? Don't be ridiculous. J.Kennedy would be topping the goal kicking this year had he not got injured and he is also 194cm.

So no mate, I didn't just look at the numbers and actually have looked into how the game is played these days, rather than being brainwashed by the media and these recruiting "experts" who get a hard-on for every player that's 200cm tall.

Charlie has come along in leaps and bounds this season and looks to be another so called freak. Let's build our midfield so we can kick it to him properly.

So now you bring up Ablett, arguable the greatest player to ever play the game to justify your opinion? Of course he would still be a force in the today's game, but as I said earlier, there will always be exceptions to the rule.

As for Betts & Gray, I am sure that they are small forwards, that again are vital for a forward line structure, that has never been disputed by me

So you are going to split hairs over a 1 CM, in regards to Charlie? And by the way, Kennedy is 196cm, http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/player-profile/josh-kennedy , coming from the club.

Let me make it very clear, I never get caught up what so called recruiting experts or what the media have to say. If that was the case, I would have simply agreed, with them and most of you here, on a guy like Brodie last year, despite all and sundry rating him as a number 1 pick or at the very least top 3.

Surely you realise that the evolution of player's heights are increasing in every position (Again, yes there will be exceptions to that rule). That WILL not change.

I really enjoy reading your posts, your knowledge of the game is strong, but in regards to this, my opinions differs.

Sure that SOS & Co will do the right thing for list

 

[passmark]

He is playing a few kilos 'short' of his height so he can get moved off line fairly easily by bigger players - same as most kids do. No doubting his competitive nature at contests though.
He is a lanky runner not an explosive runner but is smarter than most kids so runs to the right places to present - does that better than any other 'forward' we have atm.
He is very composed - brain years ahead of physical development - and he will be an outstanding kick for goal.

He is playing way above his physical development and is paying for it already. with shoulders already needing heavy strapping.

Got very thick legs for the rest of his frame. Hard to budge soon.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

So now you bring up Ablett, arguable the greatest player to ever play the game to justify your opinion? Of course he would still be a force in the today's game, but as I said earlier, there will always be exceptions to the rule.

As for Betts & Gray, I am sure that they are small forwards, that again are vital for a forward line structure, that has never been disputed by me

So you are going to split hairs over a 1 CM, in regards to Charlie? And by the way, Kennedy is 196cm, http://www.westcoasteagles.com.au/player-profile/josh-kennedy , coming from the club.

Let me make it very clear, I never get caught up what so called recruiting experts or what the media have to say. If that was the case, I would have simply agreed, with them and most of you here, on a guy like Brodie last year, despite all and sundry rating him as a number 1 pick or at the very least top 3.

Surely you realise that the evolution of player's heights are increasing in every position (Again, yes there will be exceptions to that rule). That WILL not change.

I really enjoy reading your posts, your knowledge of the game is strong, but in regards to this, my opinions differs.

Sure that SOS & Co will do the right thing for list

Nope, you are on that one mate. I'll say it one more time, Charlie is 194cm, Kennedy was when he was drafted. It doesn't make a difference +- 1cm.

We don't need a beanstalk 200cm forward. We need a gun midfield.

200cm gun forwards are a myth. You want to talk about modern footy, then they mean even less because they are quite clearly having less impact today than 10+ years ago.

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Unfortunately the different era thing comes into play here. In competitive games in those days FFs would kick 50% of the teams score such was the direct, open style of the game. Nowdays there is a greater spread of opportunistic goal scorers. I do note however that teams only really started dropping players enmasse into backline holes after Plugger retired!

Era doesn't matter. Fev and Plugger would still be the best forwards in the game today if they were playing in their prime.

 

[JustaBattler]

Got very thick legs for the rest of his frame. Hard to budge soon.

Weitering/Marchbank/SOJ/Charlie/Cuningham/SPS/Fisher/Wiliamson/Pickett/Harry/Polson - are all just kids playing more often than not against more physically developed 'hardened' players. All of them have been used to being faster/taller/bigger/stronger than other kids their age- now they are playing against developed AFL players - they are doing well to play 2 quarters of good football.

We will know how good or not they really are minimum two years from now when their bodies have started to develop genuine 'hardness' - Bolton is working on their mental game now making them learn to 'endure' as he says - it is very very hard on young kids to play at this level.

Carlton needs time doing what it has been doing. Enjoy teh brave losses plenty more to come against the better (more developed) sides.

 

[Kramer1]

I'm still trying to work him out. He is slowish although he seems to get clear often, he loses his feet in contests but he makes a decent contest and what I once saw as being too casual I'm starting to see as composure - particularly with his hands. One things for sure, if he plays the mandatory father/son 100 games he will be considered a massive steal at 53!

Like his father...looks slow but covers ground quickly. I think it's just a gait thing...sprint looks like a jog.

 

[passmark]

Era doesn't matter. Fev and Plugger would still be the best forwards in the game today if they were playing in their prime.

A committed, hard working and disciplined Fev might. Remember we ****ed him off when he should have been still in his prime.

 

[teagueyubeauty]

Imagine Fev being there in 2011...makes me very sad

 

[jackn]

Extend his contract for a year, make it 500k a season ..... simples .... he's worth that at least.

And then do the same for every other player with a front loaded contract once they reach the end and are on less than they could be? Absolutely not! Only real options are send him to Adelaide if we get compensation worthy of a gun player with 2 (or 3?) years of a contract left, or make him see out the contract.
1 pick outside the top 5 isn't good enough for Gibbs with his contact situation, either.

 

[Aphrodite]

Operation GET KELLY .......


Get it done SOS!

Kindest Regards


Aph

 

[Jabba73]

Bulldust i saw them all in the same place, there was thirteen of them.

Did you count yourself? Common mistake

 

[Arr0w]

Nope, you are on that one mate. I'll say it one more time, Charlie is 194cm, Kennedy was when he was drafted. It doesn't make a difference +- 1cm.

We don't need a beanstalk 200cm forward. We need a gun midfield.

200cm gun forwards are a myth. You want to talk about modern footy, then they mean even less because they are quite clearly having less impact today than 10+ years ago.

Okay was happy to leave it at the last post, but if you want to keep going, I will entertain the debate.

I really couldn't give a stuff about 1 cm. Was refuting your claims that 192 cm forwards are having more impact, than 195+ KPF. Of course they can be, but they are now the exception. This is not an opinion, it is fact. Just look are all the better than average KPF in the competition, they are all taller than 192 cm (Walker the only exception (Fact).

Your argument was also flawed, by suggesting Kennedy was 194, then back tracking to say "When he was drafted". What happens to your argument if Charlie grows to 196 cm?

Again you state "200cm"(Let's just call it as taller than 192) guys are having less impact than the KPF's of 10 years ago. This still tells me you are living in the past. Base it on today, in today's game, 195+ KPF are having more impact that the KPF at 190-194. This is not an opinion, it is fact, as listed below from a previous post


Top 15 goal kickers from this year. Only one in the top 15 is around 192, Walker. Versus 10 genuine KPF, the rest are small forwards. The trend of all players increasing in height will continue, with a small percentage of exceptions

Before last night's game

Lance Franklin Sydney 43
Joe Daniher Essendon 41
Jeremy Cameron GWS 41
Eddie Betts Adelaide 39
Ben Brown North Melbourne 38
Robbie Gray Port Adelaide 38
Taylor Walker Adelaide 37
Tom Hawkins Geelong 36
Jack Riewoldt Richmond 36
Tom Lynch Gold Coast 35
Joshua Kennedy West Coast 34
Orazio Fantasia Essendon 32
Jeff Garlett Melbourne 32
Charlie Dixon Port Adelaide 32
Jonathon Patton GWS 31

Hopefully these FACTS and not my opinion nor yours, are clear and we can both move on.

Now, if you want to go back to our original debate, what type of player the club needs more, midfielder or KPF, happy to do so.