VFL competition is a mess

[Bunk Moreland]

Once the AFL clubs leave I think the remaining VFL clubs could just go back to local leagues.

From there a Melbourne-wide league could develop IF the clubs wanted it. Won't happen if they don't.

It would have to include promotion and relegation as if it doesn't it'll just go the way of any other league which doesn't have it, and die as the clubs weaken. You have to be able to regenerate as times change and population shifts. P&R is the only natural way to make that happen.

If it is to happen then

Merge the EDFL and NFL to create a true Northern league.

Then you have Northern, Eastern, Southern and Western Leagues.

VFL Division 1
VFL Division 2 North West
VFL Division 2 South East

Bottom 2 from VFL D1 are relegated
Premiers of VFL D2 are both promoted

Bottom 2 of both VFL D2 are relegated to the local leagues.

Premiers of 4 local leagues are promoted to VFL D2.

That way it's always regenerated with strong, growing clubs at the top level. And every other level retains a local feel - VFL D2 is just slightly wider - North with West and South with East.

Forget regional clubs. It's never worked as they haven't had the support that country leagues have. Frankston could of course join as they're basically a Southern suburb of Melbourne anyway... in fact I reckon other Peninsula / Nepean clubs would be keen to join the Southern league too.

 

[Obi fella]

Once the AFL clubs leave I think the remaining VFL clubs could just go back to local leagues.

From there a Melbourne-wide league could develop IF the clubs wanted it. Won't happen if they don't.

It would have to include promotion and relegation as if it doesn't it'll just go the way of any other league which doesn't have it, and die as the clubs weaken. You have to be able to regenerate as times change and population shifts. P&R is the only natural way to make that happen.

If it is to happen then

Merge the EDFL and NFL to create a true Northern league.

Then you have Northern, Eastern, Southern and Western Leagues.

VFL Division 1
VFL Division 2 North West
VFL Division 2 South East

Bottom 2 from VFL D1 are relegated
Premiers of VFL D2 are both promoted

Bottom 2 of both VFL D2 are relegated to the local leagues.

Premiers of 4 local leagues are promoted to VFL D2.

That way it's always regenerated with strong, growing clubs at the top level. And every other level retains a local feel - VFL D2 is just slightly wider - North with West and South with East.

Forget regional clubs. It's never worked as they haven't had the support that country leagues have. Frankston could of course join as they're basically a Southern suburb of Melbourne anyway... in fact I reckon other Peninsula / Nepean clubs would be keen to join the Southern league too.

Best idea I've read.

 

[hamohawk1]

Once the AFL clubs leave I think the remaining VFL clubs could just go back to local leagues.

From there a Melbourne-wide league could develop IF the clubs wanted it. Won't happen if they don't.

It would have to include promotion and relegation as if it doesn't it'll just go the way of any other league which doesn't have it, and die as the clubs weaken. You have to be able to regenerate as times change and population shifts. P&R is the only natural way to make that happen.

If it is to happen then

Merge the EDFL and NFL to create a true Northern league.

Then you have Northern, Eastern, Southern and Western Leagues.

VFL Division 1
VFL Division 2 North West
VFL Division 2 South East

Bottom 2 from VFL D1 are relegated
Premiers of VFL D2 are both promoted

Bottom 2 of both VFL D2 are relegated to the local leagues.

Premiers of 4 local leagues are promoted to VFL D2.

That way it's always regenerated with strong, growing clubs at the top level. And every other level retains a local feel - VFL D2 is just slightly wider - North with West and South with East.

Forget regional clubs. It's never worked as they haven't had the support that country leagues have. Frankston could of course join as they're basically a Southern suburb of Melbourne anyway... in fact I reckon other Peninsula / Nepean clubs would be keen to join the Southern league too.

Love it, honestly the idea of the NFL and EDFL merging may be contentious but makes so much sense.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Love it, honestly the idea of the NFL and EDFL merging may be contentious but makes so much sense.

Just needs to be done properly - clubs put in correct leagues and where they want to play, north or west.

 

[numchuks]

Once the AFL clubs leave I think the remaining VFL clubs could just go back to local leagues.

From there a Melbourne-wide league could develop IF the clubs wanted it. Won't happen if they don't.

It would have to include promotion and relegation as if it doesn't it'll just go the way of any other league which doesn't have it, and die as the clubs weaken. You have to be able to regenerate as times change and population shifts. P&R is the only natural way to make that happen.

If it is to happen then

Merge the EDFL and NFL to create a true Northern league.

Then you have Northern, Eastern, Southern and Western Leagues.

VFL Division 1
VFL Division 2 North West
VFL Division 2 South East

Bottom 2 from VFL D1 are relegated
Premiers of VFL D2 are both promoted

Bottom 2 of both VFL D2 are relegated to the local leagues.

Premiers of 4 local leagues are promoted to VFL D2.

That way it's always regenerated with strong, growing clubs at the top level. And every other level retains a local feel - VFL D2 is just slightly wider - North with West and South with East.

Forget regional clubs. It's never worked as they haven't had the support that country leagues have. Frankston could of course join as they're basically a Southern suburb of Melbourne anyway... in fact I reckon other Peninsula / Nepean clubs would be keen to join the Southern league too.

What if both clubs that are relegated from D1 are from the North Western group or from the South West Group ?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

What if both clubs that are relegated from D1 are from the North Western group or from the South West Group ?

Then 2 are relegated from D2... and so on and so forth.

If you're looking at relegation, it's already often out of your hands and decided by what other clubs do. This is the same, just with clubs in the next division up.

 

[hamohawk1]

Confirmed no development league next year it seems.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Would the VAFA have any desire to include current VFL teams in their operations, i understand the history but times have changed.

How would it benefit the VAFA and its member clubs?? The competiton as a collective is extremely healthy and unless the teams were willing to do what FItzroy did when they first chose to joint then i doubt the VAFA would have an interest in this..

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

Confirmed no development league next year it seems.

Its a good thing for local clubs.. Nothing worse than having blokes miss important games so they can play VFL 2s. The standard is worse than EFL/EDFL or VAFA A grade so does not benefit the players development at all. This will also stop a lot of the mercenaries demanding excessive cash to play local footy because there should be a heap more kids going back to there local clubs to play with mates.

 

[Suntory Boss Coffee]

Its a good thing for local clubs.. Nothing worse than having blokes miss important games so they can play VFL 2s. The standard is worse than EFL/EDFL or VAFA A grade so does not benefit the players development at all. This will also stop a lot of the mercenaries demanding excessive cash to play local footy because there should be a heap more kids going back to there local clubs to play with mates.

But would it give players an extra chance at Senior footy? Hard to go Local footy straight to AFL
Also hard to get a gig in Senior VFL as well. Just feel like this is a shot in the face to all the late developers out there.

 

[ItsAllAboutMe]

But would it give players an extra chance at Senior footy? Hard to go Local footy straight to AFL
Also hard to get a gig in Senior VFL as well. Just feel like this is a shot in the face to all the late developers out there.

Has any player ever been drafted out of the dev league without playing senior VFL... would be very surprised. Last year Ryan Abbott was drafted from Grovedale in GFL, 2014 Pat McKenna from Gisborne in Bendigo League. Ambrose at Essendon from Old Xavs, Zac Willaims at GWS from Neerandra in Riverina league.. It doesnt happen much but it does happen.

I imagine the VFL clubs will still have an extended list that would train at least 1 night a week with the VFL teams, so should be able to slot into the senior team quite easily after playing local level and as I mentioned the standard at the top metro, Country and VAFA comps is far superior to that of the development league.

 

[Roylion]

How would it benefit the VAFA and its member clubs?? The competiton as a collective is extremely healthy and unless the teams were willing to do what FItzroy did when they first chose to joint then i doubt the VAFA would have an interest in this..

Fitzroy was a special case.

As soon as the Club came out of administration in 1998 the Fitzroy directors resolved to continue the club. The Club started once again taking ordinary membership subscriptions again with the aim of re-establishing a football team on the field.

From 1997 to 2008 the Fitzroy Football Club accumulated assets such as the establishing of a Shop for merchandise, trademarking available logos such as the FFC logo, which the AFL had never trademarked and other revenue streams.

In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the 'Fitzroy' Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company. By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club then replaced the Fitzroy Reds in D-Grade VAFA. Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in 1996, remained as chairman of the Club in the VAFA. Therefore the club that exists in the VAFA today is the same club that was formed in 1883 and competed for a hundred years in the VFL/AFL.

I just couldn't see it working if the likes of Port Melbourne, Williamstown and Coburg for example, did the same. If those want to remain at the top of Victorian football, they really need to do what eight VFA clubs did in 1896, withdraw from the existing competition and start their own competition from scratch with between 10-12 clubs. And leave it that way for a number of years to build / continue traditions / rivalries.

Ideally a revamped VFA with twelve clubs could look like this:

- Box Hill Mustangs
- Coburg Lions
- Fitzroy Reds / Maroons
- Frankston Dolphins
- Port Melbourne Boroughs
- Preston Bullants / Blues
- Sandringham Zebras
- Springvale Scorpions
- University Blacks
- Werribee Tigers
- Williamstown Seagulls

A ten club VFA might dispense with Box Hill (Hawthorn reserves) and perhaps Frankston.

 

[fumbler]

Fitzroy was a special case.

As soon as the Club came out of administration in 1998 the Fitzroy directors resolved to continue the club. The Club started once again taking ordinary membership subscriptions again with the aim of re-establishing a football team on the field.

From 1997 to 2008 the Fitzroy Football Club accumulated assets such as the establishing of a Shop for merchandise, trademarking available logos such as the FFC logo, which the AFL had never trademarked and other revenue streams.

In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the 'Fitzroy' Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company. By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club then replaced the Fitzroy Reds in D-Grade VAFA. Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in 1996, remained as chairman of the Club in the VAFA. Therefore the club that exists in the VAFA today is the same club that was formed in 1883 and competed for a hundred years in the VFL/AFL.

I just couldn't see it working if the likes of Port Melbourne, Williamstown and Coburg for example, did the same. If those want to remain at the top of Victorian football, they really need to do what eight VFA clubs did in 1896, withdraw from the existing competition and start their own competition from scratch with between 10-12 clubs. And leave it that way for a number of years to build / continue traditions / rivalries.

Ideally a revamped VFA with twelve clubs could look like this:

- Box Hill Mustangs
- Coburg Lions
- Fitzroy Reds / Maroons
- Frankston Dolphins
- Port Melbourne Boroughs
- Preston Bullants / Blues
- Sandringham Zebras
- Springvale Scorpions
- University Blacks
- Werribee Tigers
- Williamstown Seagulls

A ten club VFA might dispense with Box Hill (Hawthorn reserves) and perhaps Frankston.

Can you tell me about the Coburg Fitzroy Lions, was it just so Coburg could get more people to it's games or was it a fair dinkum merge?

Also has the club thought about going with Fitzroy Red Lions?

 

[Bunk Moreland]

Fitzroy was a special case.

As soon as the Club came out of administration in 1998 the Fitzroy directors resolved to continue the club. The Club started once again taking ordinary membership subscriptions again with the aim of re-establishing a football team on the field.

From 1997 to 2008 the Fitzroy Football Club accumulated assets such as the establishing of a Shop for merchandise, trademarking available logos such as the FFC logo, which the AFL had never trademarked and other revenue streams.

In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the 'Fitzroy' Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company. By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club then replaced the Fitzroy Reds in D-Grade VAFA. Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in 1996, remained as chairman of the Club in the VAFA. Therefore the club that exists in the VAFA today is the same club that was formed in 1883 and competed for a hundred years in the VFL/AFL.

I just couldn't see it working if the likes of Port Melbourne, Williamstown and Coburg for example, did the same. If those want to remain at the top of Victorian football, they really need to do what eight VFA clubs did in 1896, withdraw from the existing competition and start their own competition from scratch with between 10-12 clubs. And leave it that way for a number of years to build / continue traditions / rivalries.

Ideally a revamped VFA with twelve clubs could look like this:

- Box Hill Mustangs
- Coburg Lions
- Fitzroy Reds / Maroons
- Frankston Dolphins
- Port Melbourne Boroughs
- Preston Bullants / Blues
- Sandringham Zebras
- Springvale Scorpions
- University Blacks
- Werribee Tigers
- Williamstown Seagulls

A ten club VFA might dispense with Box Hill (Hawthorn reserves) and perhaps Frankston.

Highly doubt any club would shift straight from the ammos to the VFA. It's a huge jump financially.

Frankston would join - they've got a bit of groundswell down there now and would at least give it a crack.

The Scorps are an interesting one. Tipping they'd remain at Casey... Springvale is long gone.

 

[Roylion]

Can you tell me about the Coburg Fitzroy Lions, was it just so Coburg could get more people to it's games or was it a fair dinkum merge?

In 1999, Fitzroy now boosted by a small revenue stream from memberships and the newly established 'Fitzroy Shop', (which still trades and has been loaning out Fitzroy memorabilia for the Jack Irish series on the ABC) became the naming rights sponsor of the Coburg Lions in the VFL. For two years, in 1999-2000, the Coburg-Fitzroy Lions competed in the VFL wearing a Fitzroy jumper for away games. It was done to hopefully get disenfranchised / disgruntled Fitzroy people to come to Coburg games.

Also has the club thought about going with Fitzroy Red Lions?

Not to my knowledge.

 

[pazza]

Confirmed no development league next year it seems.

Was a failed experiment.

Because not every VFL team was involved, it made no sense.

 

[fumbler]

In 1999, Fitzroy now boosted by a small revenue stream from memberships and the newly established 'Fitzroy Shop', (which still trades and has been loaning out Fitzroy memorabilia for the Jack Irish series on the ABC) became the naming rights sponsor of the Coburg Lions in the VFL. For two years, in 1999-2000, the Coburg-Fitzroy Lions competed in the VFL wearing a Fitzroy jumper for away games. It was done to hopefully get disenfranchised / disgruntled Fitzroy people to come to Coburg games.



Not to my knowledge.

Thankyou.
It would be interesting to seeif adding the colour red to the name interferes with the merged identity?

 

[Roogal]

Once the AFL clubs leave I think the remaining VFL clubs could just go back to local leagues.

From there a Melbourne-wide league could develop IF the clubs wanted it. Won't happen if they don't.

It would have to include promotion and relegation as if it doesn't it'll just go the way of any other league which doesn't have it, and die as the clubs weaken. You have to be able to regenerate as times change and population shifts. P&R is the only natural way to make that happen.

If it is to happen then

Merge the EDFL and NFL to create a true Northern league.

Then you have Northern, Eastern, Southern and Western Leagues.

VFL Division 1
VFL Division 2 North West
VFL Division 2 South East

Bottom 2 from VFL D1 are relegated
Premiers of VFL D2 are both promoted

Bottom 2 of both VFL D2 are relegated to the local leagues.

Premiers of 4 local leagues are promoted to VFL D2.

That way it's always regenerated with strong, growing clubs at the top level. And every other level retains a local feel - VFL D2 is just slightly wider - North with West and South with East.

Forget regional clubs. It's never worked as they haven't had the support that country leagues have. Frankston could of course join as they're basically a Southern suburb of Melbourne anyway... in fact I reckon other Peninsula / Nepean clubs would be keen to join the Southern league too.

I suspect that the thing that is killing the VFL is the slow highjacking of the competition by the AFL. AFL should have its own separate Reserves competition again and leave the VFL to build a two-tiered competition as you have suggested. Open it to all leagues across the State to field one representative team from each League. The VFL can then have a relegation type system to ensure that at least the twelve best Leagues are represented and providing a potential feed of the very best of the state to the AFL.

I don't agree that regional Leagues are inferior as you have suggested, but I do believe that under my idea that you would likely see a balance of 75% metropolitan teams and 25% regional teams represented across the competition.

 

[fumbler]

I suspect that the thing that is killing the VFL is the slow highjacking of the competition by the AFL. AFL should have its own separate Reserves competition again and leave the VFL to build a two-tiered competition as you have suggested. Open it to all leagues across the State to field one representative team from each League. The VFL can then have a relegation type system to ensure that at least the twelve best Leagues are represented and providing a potential feed of the very best of the state to the AFL.

I don't agree that regional Leagues are inferior as you have suggested, but I do believe that under my idea that you would likely see a balance of 75% metropolitan teams and 25% regional teams represented across the competition.

I see the main reason is why the AFL have not returned to a reserves set up is the money, to have all 18 clubs in reserves would cost an absolute fortune. Also if theydid not ask the clubs outside victoria then there would be a massive s**t fight.
It would be ideal for the AFL Victoria to re-establish the VFA with clubs who have no affiliation to any AFL club and then the AFL could establish the Metropolitan League as the reserves but it's more a fantasy as the AFL would rather just pretend that everything is ok.

 

[Walshawk]

Fitzroy was a special case.

As soon as the Club came out of administration in 1998 the Fitzroy directors resolved to continue the club. The Club started once again taking ordinary membership subscriptions again with the aim of re-establishing a football team on the field.

From 1997 to 2008 the Fitzroy Football Club accumulated assets such as the establishing of a Shop for merchandise, trademarking available logos such as the FFC logo, which the AFL had never trademarked and other revenue streams.

In December 2008, at the instigation of the then Reds president Craig Little, the University Reds Football Club (known as the 'Fitzroy' Reds from 1997) transferred all its assets to the Fitzroy Football Club Ltd. The University (Fitzroy) Reds terminated its membership of the VAFA and was wound up as a incorporated company. By special dispensation from the VAFA, the Fitzroy Football Club then replaced the Fitzroy Reds in D-Grade VAFA. Dyson Hore-Lacy, chairman of Fitzroy in 1996, remained as chairman of the Club in the VAFA. Therefore the club that exists in the VAFA today is the same club that was formed in 1883 and competed for a hundred years in the VFL/AFL.

I just couldn't see it working if the likes of Port Melbourne, Williamstown and Coburg for example, did the same. If those want to remain at the top of Victorian football, they really need to do what eight VFA clubs did in 1896, withdraw from the existing competition and start their own competition from scratch with between 10-12 clubs. And leave it that way for a number of years to build / continue traditions / rivalries.

Ideally a revamped VFA with twelve clubs could look like this:

- Box Hill Mustangs
- Coburg Lions
- Fitzroy Reds / Maroons
- Frankston Dolphins
- Port Melbourne Boroughs
- Preston Bullants / Blues
- Sandringham Zebras
- Springvale Scorpions
- University Blacks
- Werribee Tigers
- Williamstown Seagulls

A ten club VFA might dispense with Box Hill (Hawthorn reserves) and perhaps Frankston.

Clubs like Box Hill and Casey are gone if they split with their AFL partner. As an example, Box Hill would have no supporters (I don't think there is a single Mustang fan left), no committee, off field or on field staff. It is 99.99% run and funded by Hawthorn. Preston at least is affiliated with a junior club, but would probably also fold.

 

[Walshawk]

Confirmed no development league next year it seems.

That makes many of the VFL sides now just teams rather than clubs.
Those that have junior affiliations such as Willi are a club, using Box Hill as an example, having 10 blokes training at City oval to fill out the Box Hill/Hawthorn reserves team, does not make it a club.
There is no coming back for Box Hill but Sandy need to get out now otherwise there will be nothing left for them.
When the VFL/VFL folds in 5 - 10 years, we will look back on this move as the final nail in the coffin.

 

[Walshawk]

I predict next year we will have a 16 team comp.
Northern Blues
Collingwood reserves
Essendon reserves
Footscray
Geelong
Box Hill Hawks
Casey Demons
Richmond reserves
North reserves
St Kilda reserves
Port Melbourne
Williamstown
Coburg
Werribee
Frankston
Sandringham

Nth Ballarat to withdraw.

If they don't readmit Frankston, it is a clear sign that the VFL is gone within five years to be replaced by an AFL reserves comp. Then again, they along with Coburb and Nth Ballarat if they remain, will fill the bottom three for eternity anyway.

 

[Walshawk]

Once the AFL clubs leave I think the remaining VFL clubs could just go back to local leagues.

From there a Melbourne-wide league could develop IF the clubs wanted it. Won't happen if they don't.

It would have to include promotion and relegation as if it doesn't it'll just go the way of any other league which doesn't have it, and die as the clubs weaken. You have to be able to regenerate as times change and population shifts. P&R is the only natural way to make that happen.

If it is to happen then

Merge the EDFL and NFL to create a true Northern league.

Then you have Northern, Eastern, Southern and Western Leagues.

VFL Division 1
VFL Division 2 North West
VFL Division 2 South East

Bottom 2 from VFL D1 are relegated
Premiers of VFL D2 are both promoted

Bottom 2 of both VFL D2 are relegated to the local leagues.

Premiers of 4 local leagues are promoted to VFL D2.

That way it's always regenerated with strong, growing clubs at the top level. And every other level retains a local feel - VFL D2 is just slightly wider - North with West and South with East.

Forget regional clubs. It's never worked as they haven't had the support that country leagues have. Frankston could of course join as they're basically a Southern suburb of Melbourne anyway... in fact I reckon other Peninsula / Nepean clubs would be keen to join the Southern league too.

Some interesting ideas. Any VFL club that wants to exist in ten years time needs to be planning and implementing now. They will need - a committee (not just AFL club reps), some sponsors independant of the AFL partner, a junior affilliation and some members that are not just supporters of their AFL partner. Local clubs usually have seniors, reserves, U19s and the good ones also have juniors from U8s to U17s. I think Willi is the only VFL club that has this. You need dozens and dozens of volunteers. I would suggest that this is impossible for Casey and Box Hill, difficult for Sandy, Coburg, Preston Frankston and even Port. Not sure about Werribee.

 

[Orange Agent]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-25/zebras-ponder-end-to-vfl-alignment-with-st-kilda

I thought STK were already having their own side play from Moorabbin.

Cant see the non-aligned clubs forming a breakaway league succeding, nobody would play in it, they would just go to EFL, NFL or A sect Ammo's. Looks not far off now Carlton and Melb get thier own sides and join the northern AFL clubs for a eastern AFL reserves comp. This has been a hatchet job but sadly its all too familiar with what AFL Vic have been doing for years with local level leagues around Victoria.

 

[Bunk Moreland]

http://www.afl.com.au/news/2017-07-25/zebras-ponder-end-to-vfl-alignment-with-st-kilda

I thought STK were already having their own side play from Moorabbin.

Cant see the non-aligned clubs forming a breakaway league succeding, nobody would play in it, they would just go to EFL, NFL or A sect Ammo's. Looks not far off now Carlton and Melb get thier own sides and join the northern AFL clubs for a eastern AFL reserves comp. This has been a hatchet job but sadly its all too familiar with what AFL Vic have been doing for years with local level leagues around Victoria.

St Kilda planned their own reserves side before apparently realising they couldn't afford it and deciding to re-sign with Sandy.

Part of the deal is Sandy playing a few home games at Moorabbin in St Kilda jumpers. Urgh.

I think they'd be best going back to local leagues, reconnecting with communities as genuine local clubs, build U19s sides with some links to local junior clubs.

East - Box Hill
Essendon - Coburg
North - Preston
West - Port, Werribee, Willy
South - Sandy

Casey and Frankston could go Southern or MPNFL

From there they can push a case for an elite local footy league in Melbourne above the current leagues.