Bluemour Discussion Thread VI (cont. in Part VII)

[PoultryinMotion]

That's delusional thinking.

GWS will not let go of Kennedy and Smith for a 2nd rounder next year just because we agree to take Griffen off their books.

Read back a bit BF for some context - Wasn't my "delusional thinking".... But I like it!

 

[Blue_Fusion]

We will likely need an extra second round pick to pay for a potential father son. Plus next year's rumored strongly to be a much better draft then this year. If anything next year we will look to trade into that draft (trading our 2019 first rounder out for an extra 2018 pick), not trade out of it.

I'm really not sure you get the concept of a rebuild Jimmae.

We are 2 years into a 66 game rebuild. We need to spend this year, and next year, assembling as much talent in an under the 23 year old mark as possible.

Gibbs will not play in a Carlton premiership. Neither will Murphy and neither will Simpson.

In the list management thread im seeing idiots argue that we should trade in Jack Watts and a bunch of other players aged 26 and over in order to try to pinch in early flag. They also argue we should retain Gibbs.

I shake my head. I truly do.

It's either the result of impatience or lack of common sense.

I had to explain why bringing in Rockliff would only be a good idea IF we get rid of Gibbs. Having both will work against us more than it will for us. We don't have the core young midfield group yet. Having Daisy, Gibbs, Murphy, Rockliff and Palmer 'teaching' players like Kerridge, Graham, Boekhorst and Smedts will serve us little to no purpose in 5 years time because those 4 youngsters will likely be gone anyway along with those older blokes.

Meanwhile, all it will do is help boost us up the ladder a few spots for the next 3 years. Meaning we'll maybe get something like pick #10, pick #12 and pick #13. After that, no more Murphy, Rocky and Gibbs. They'll either be retired or past their best and then we likely drop down the ladder again.

If we're smart, we trade Gibbs for pick #10 this year. Then we can still go after Rocky so we're not noncompetitive and then we likely end up with pick #4, pick #7 and pick #13. Notice the trajectory in regards to where we finish 3 years matches that of the previous scenario. Of course, it's only my opinion and guess but I think it's a reasonable guess. Then once Murph and Rocky finish up, we'll have 3 top 10 picks and most of which would have developed their game and be ready replacements with a pick #13 playing his first season.

The previous scenario has us with only 1 top 10 pick and a pick #12 and #13 post Murphy, Rocky and Gibbs.

I know which hand I'd rather play...

 

[The Bighouse]

5 year deal to a bloke with crook knees?

Hahaha come on. Thats not even remotely believable.

Re-birth of the PSD if to save ourselves a draft pick...5yrs would have to be matched by others below us and they're all north.

 

[djw1952]

Baraga


Because he obviously has off field issues. Do we really want a player with questionable character being payed huge money around our young kids?

That is up to the club, but I was mainly pointing out that some people on here are not giving him credit for what he has already shown talent wise. From talent point of view would be a good get imo.........but the club would know if his character is dodgy or not so wait and see.......it is only a "rumour" of course..........like most stuff on here......naturally.

 

[Funk]

Saints board have offered 7+8 for ferrisb and Soapy plus thy as a salary dump.

Always thought thylacine60 was way overpaid....

 

[Blue_Fusion]

Read back a bit BF for some context - Wasn't my "delusional thinking".

Doesn't matter if it's your way of thinking or someone else's. It just doesn't make much sense at all.

If they're smart, they know we want Kennedy and he is worth a 2nd rounder. We don't have this year's but we do still have our 2018 2nd. So, why would they throw Smith in along with Griffen?

They can shop Smith around and extract another mid-late 2nd rounder for him.

If they both nominate us then they will be holding us to ransom to see what we get for Gibbs and ask for that again like they planned on doing last year. There's no way they'll let both of them go for pick #23, they'd have to be incredibly dumb.

 

[djw1952]

And Chocco Phillips said that Motlop is very likely to end up at Port.

They can't have too much space.

I have heard that Motlop is going to norf and that the cats will push some $$$ their way as well.....but? Just wondering who is Chocco Phillips or do you mean Williams as in Mark......

 

[passmark]

I have heard that Motlop is going to norf and that the cats will push some $$$ their way as well.....but? Just wondering who is Chocco Phillips or do you mean Williams as in Mark......

Woops.

Mark Williams. No idea why said Phillips.

 

[Bronze]

Interested to see the "dump" being offered by GWS.

 

[thylacine60]

Always thought thylacine60 was way overpaid....

you can stfu, ken wood..........

 

[djw1952]

WE ARE TAKING PICK 3 TO THE DRAFT!

Better pray SOS can get another early pick for GWS somehow then...........

 

[ParapMarkets]

I have heard that Motlop is going to norf and that the cats will push some $$$ their way as well.....but? Just wondering who is Chocco Phillips or do you mean Williams as in Mark......

Motlop is out of contract and a free agent, Geelong wouldn't push any $$$ North's way. On the contrary, they will be hoping North pay as much as possible to increase the compo.

 

[blue healer]

Well..............that depends on who you draft with pick 10!
Dangerfield was drafted at pick 10. I think I'd prefer him than Gibbs for 2 years.


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app

Lucas was drafted only one pick down.

 

[JustaBattler]

It takes much more than that. You need to develop your players and have a winning game plan. The players need to buy in, and see success so they can aim for it. They need 50- 100 games playing with each other as well.

I'm confident the club is doing all of these things.

We are two years into a three year total list rebuilding. You can't go from blowing nearly every single draft pick we had in the 2007 to 2014 drafts, while losing half a dozen quality players for next in nothing over that same period of time (Eddie Betts, Sam Jacobs, Shaun Grigg, Mitch Robinson, Jeff Garlett, Jarrod Waite), having a rock show of a coach and recruiting team.... and undo all of that in just two years.

Quite literally the worst thing we could do right now would be to rush the rebuild. We will be stuck in a another decade of mediocrity if we do so.

We need to be methodical and patient this time.

1. You develop your players and your game plan by having a core group pf players capable of developing the young ones and executing a game plan. Right now we have no midfield - this needs to be addressed because Fisher/SPS/Cuningham/Polson/Pickett need time to develop bigger bodies and 4 quarter football ability - having witches hats and hacks like Graham/Kerridge pretend to play as on ballers does not help these kids make the most of their game time - it makes the kids expect to see turnovers and over time destroys any flair they have as they try and preserve themselves. So Gibbs is important in the context of no midfield depth whatsoever.

2. Yes the worst thing Carlton could do is follow the Melbourne model and trade out any experienced player of quality for a draft picks - madness - and yet you are advocating exactly that.

3. The lack of midfield needs to be addressed both by developing talent we have and also by supporting them.

So again if Gibbs can net two decent mids fine - if not it makes no sense to trade him - and I am not the greatest fan of Gibbs.

The rebuild will take longer if it is done right - the climb up the ladder I am sorry to say to those who love high draft picks 0 is just a couple of mids away. Bolton is not a losing type coach he likes to win - the draftees we do have and traded young players we have picked up - want to win - they arent in it for some kind of oh well we are in a rebuild so we can relax. It wont take much more than what we already have to challenge for finals next year - book mark it.

 

[The Flying Doormat]

We will trade early in trading period..

Damn. Not much entertainment value then. Fail.

 

[djw1952]

This.

It just doesn't make any sense at all.

We have Jones, weitering, marchbank and plowman as best 22 and even that is already arguably one too many. Who does Tomlinson replace?

Then macreadie as the up and comer.

Then we still have Rowe, Alex Silvangni and white on the list for next year.

Would play up forward. He gets played up back by them because they lack defenders but have many forwards, but when he arrived at GWS I think he was thought of as a utility who they could play wherever they needed him........more of a playmaker I would think than a stay at home defender.

 

[katmanblue]

We will likely need an extra second round pick to pay for a potential father son. Plus next year's rumored strongly to be a much better draft then this year. If anything next year we will look to trade into that draft (trading our 2019 first rounder out for an extra 2018 pick), not trade out of it.

I'm really not sure you get the concept of a rebuild Jimmae.

We are 2 years into a 66 game rebuild. We need to spend this year, and next year, assembling as much talent in an under the 23 year old mark as possible.

Gibbs will not play in a Carlton premiership. Neither will Murphy and neither will Simpson.

In the list management thread im seeing idiots argue that we should trade in Jack Watts and a bunch of other players aged 26 and over in order to try to pinch in early flag. They also argue we should retain Gibbs.

I shake my head. I truly do.

Amen.

On SM-N920I using BigFooty.com mobile app

 

[ParapMarkets]

It takes much more than that. You need to develop your players and have a winning game plan. The players need to buy in, and see success so they can aim for it. They need 50- 100 games playing with each other as well.

I'm confident the club is doing all of these things.

We are two years into a three year total list rebuilding. You can't go from blowing nearly every single draft pick we had in the 2007 to 2014 drafts, while losing half a dozen quality players for next in nothing over that same period of time (Eddie Betts, Sam Jacobs, Shaun Grigg, Mitch Robinson, Jeff Garlett, Jarrod Waite), having a rock show of a coach and recruiting team.... and undo all of that in just two years.

Quite literally the worst thing we could do right now would be to rush the rebuild. We will be stuck in a another decade of mediocrity if we do so.

We need to be methodical and patient this time.

We'll see what SOS does, I think if we are happy with Rocky's shoulder and we get him then we will likely trade Gibbs if we get the right offer.

Last year you were declaring our non-trade of Gibbs the worst thing possible for Carlton, you were absolutely gagging for a trade. But the fact is, his form this year (along with Krooz etc.) has enabled us to blood more youngsters than otherwise possible. Keeping Gibbs has actually fast tracked our rebuild, far more valuable than the pick 17 we were offered (Gallucci).

I understand the "don't rush the rebuild" philosophy but I don't think you value quality players enough, nor how hard it is to recruit them, you are bamboozled by draft picks without looking at how regularly those picks turn into failures. Personally, I'll back in SOS in whatever he decides. Yes, we need to do things right and can't rush the rebuild but there is also the need to create a winning culture so a balance is required.

 

[djw1952]

Motlop is out of contract and a free agent, Geelong wouldn't push any $$$ North's way. On the contrary, they will be hoping North pay as much as possible to increase the compo.

You are correct but maybe nobody is that keen.........just saying what I have heard that`s all...........

 

[Navy_Blue91]

Generally speaking, any sensible club in the AFL would only offer 5+ year deals to A-graders (Kelly, Franklin, Martin, B.Brown etc.)

Devon Smith is currently B-C grader who is injury prone, the list management department should be sacked if they recruit him on a 5 year deal. Josh Francou is a nim-wit.

 

[Malifice]

We'll see what SOS does, I think if we are happy with Rocky's shoulder and we get him then we will likely trade Gibbs if we get the right offer.

Last year you were declaring our non-trade of Gibbs the worst thing possible for Carlton, you were absolutely gagging for a trade. But the fact is, his form this year (along with Krooz etc.) has enabled us to blood more youngsters than otherwise possible. Keeping Gibbs has actually fast tracked our rebuild, far more valuable than the pick 17 we were offered (Gallucci).

I understand the "don't rush the rebuild" philosophy but I don't think you value quality players enough, nor how hard it is to recruit them, you are bamboozled by draft picks without looking at how regularly those picks turn into failures. Personally, I'll back in SOS in whatever he decides. Yes, we need to do things right and can't rush the rebuild but there is also the need to create a winning culture so a balance is required.

I agree with everything you said here, and I concede I was wrong about Gibbs last year. My fear was that we were essentially holding a player with personal issues to the club against his will. To his absolute credit and professionalism he played a fantastic year for us.

That said I still think we should trade him if we get a suitable offer.

Unlike last year it appears we will be able to obtain a free agent that can cover his role. In addition, unlike last year we are already one pick short (no second round pick). We also seem to have at least one and maybe two players from GWS that we will again need to trade for. I am extremely reluctant to part with any future draft picks in next years reportedly strong draft.

Trading Gibbs this year enables us to bring in Kennedy (Emma Quayle whom I rate very highly, rated him at number 5 in that draft) and either an extra second round draft pick or Smith, keep our pick 3, and not have to give up anything in next year's super draft.

It's a no-brainer for mine.

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Gimme something loud.

 

[Tommy Alvin]

Gimme something loud.

I think I can help.

But I may have made a little slip. I typed in Lohud instead of loud and got this:

 

[MitchRobinson12]

FB: Plowman, Jones, Byrne/Simpson
HB: Marchbank, Weitering, Docherty

R: Kruezer, Rockliff, Gibbs
C: Murphy, Cripps, Petrevski-Seton

HF: Smith, Curnow, Fisher
FF: Silvagni, McKay/Casboult, Pickett

Curnow, Williamson, Kennedy, Cuningham/Kerridge/pick 3.

I would like this 22 moving forward.

13-14 promising youth and some nice old heads makes a good balance for competitiveness and development.

 

[Chasing 17]

Serious question. This time last year the 2017 draft was to be a super draft, yet here we are and it's an average draft... but next year, boy-o-boy, super draft!

Am I remembering this right? Always seems to be a super draft around the corner.