List Mgmt. Trade & F.A. 2017 (if a scenario sounds wrong - read on before posting)

[Anzacday]

To avoid heart palpitations and repetitive posts I changed the thread title.
Hopefully it works.

 

[Quicky]

I like it!

Possible alternate plan (I like yours better, as I like the idea of going to the draft, but for the sake of conversation)...
Greenwood + 36 for 18 from Bris
6 + 18 for Lever
or 6 + Broomhead for Lever, go to draft with 18.

I'm comparing with the Beams trade. He was 5 + 25 + Crisp. Lever surely is not worth as much in a trade as Beams. So he would be worth 6 + 18 or 6 + good young player. Thoughts?

Personally i'd stay away from Lever for the reasons that have been identified in this thread. Although that 18 would also guarantee us Saad which might appeal to some. I think that's a bit overs though. I reckon we'll get an early 3rd rounder from Freo for Ramsay and I wonder if that will be enough for Saad. That's my hope but perhaps too optimistic.

 

[whiskeytown]

Don't say I approve of it but potentially...

Collingwood gives pick 6 + 36

Gets Lions picks 12 + 18

Collingwood gives 12+18 to crows

Gets: Lever + steak knives pick or player

Adelaide gives 12 + 18 for Gibbs + steak knives

Blues give pick 12 to GWS for Smith, Kennedy and Griffen

GWS get back in the 1st round and salary cap relief

The above is just a hypothetical, but if Lever is to leave Crows and Gibbs to leave Carlton you sense it will be a complex trade involving third and even fourth parties

 

[Pie 4 Life]

I'd trade #6 for Lever, but the Crows can GAGF if they think he's worth a potential top 10 pick next year.

#12 + #18 -> Adelaide
Lever + Saad -> Pies
#6 -> Brisbane
Crows R2 variety -> GC

If they want our two R1 picks. I'd want their two back to be upgrades for them rather than flat out. Lever is better than 6 this year but not better than say 6-10 next year.

 

[Mongo Ming]

Lever would be a great get. People might have forgotten the physics of age and size. He's 21. As has been said umpteen times on here. Which of the current crop of KPD started out as one-on-one defenders at that age?

He's being critiqued for being an intercept marker but the reality is as he grows he'll add close checking to his already impressive repertoire. I'd also add that being marked as a spare is not a stain on his abilities but rather a plus.

He's also a great character and former captain. Someone with brains in the backline won't hurt. See Nick Maxwell but with better skills.

Alex Rance - 194cm 95kg
Jake Lever - 194cm 86kg

Get some cheeseburgers into the kid (looks like he has the rack to put the weight on) and sky is the limit. Rance used to get pushed off opponents when he was younger.

Reading the play, intercept marking and creating from the backline are all arguably harder skills to teach than playing 1v1 on a gorilla.

Still not sold at the price and we have other greater needs but “he’s only a third tall” is selling him a bit short as he has the upside (potentially) to be a Rance type KPD weapon once he bulks up.

I don’t see him ending up the same type of defender as a Howe or Schaz.

Dat price tho..

 

[Kirby]

I think people ought to bear in mind that these leaks of offers by Collingwood are likely emanating from Adelaide or his management to shake things up and get a better offer from Melbourne.

Lever wants to go to the Dees.

 

[Gone Critical]

There is no evidence that Lever will ever develop in to a top line key defender. He has been found wanting in the role this year when played there, and unlike Rance, who everyone seems to think he’ll become, he doesn’t have sufficient closing speed to allow his man space to maintin his intercept game playing as a key defender either. He is fools gold. Scharenberg on the other hand is growing rapidly in the same role Lever currently plays. That’s not opinion, the numbers fully support it.

Which is why it’s idiocy to be suggesting trading him now. His value is currently as low as it’s going to get unless he does his knee again (touch wood). Why on earth anyone would think it’s a good idea to trade a former pick 6 that the club has stuck by through injuries, who is just getting a good run at it and beginning to show why he was taken where he was in his draft year, for a guy who plays the same role he does to a slightly better standard is beyond me. Lever is literally a slightly taller version of Scharenberg, and you’re suggesting we give away Berg and pick 6 for him. It makes me want to vomit.

I have never worked out why posters don't like their opinion being described as an opinion. Thats what most of these discussions are based on our different opinions. If the numbers support your opinion great, doesn't change what you have expressed here being your opinion.

At the end of the day you can describe my opinion as idiocy, fools gold and making you want to vomit but it's still my opinion.

I just see evidence in Lever's game that he will become a great tall defender and the key to whatever backline he plays in. His intercept ability, his defensive positioning, his ability to kill contests, read play and see attacking options up the field is way above his experience level for mine. You don't share that opinion and it doesn't seem we are likely to influence each others much.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

I have never worked out why posters don't like their opinion being described as an opinion. Thats what most of these discussions are based on our different opinions. If the numbers support your opinion great, doesn't change what you have expressed here being your opinion.

At the end of the day you can describe my opinion as idiocy, fools gold and making you want to vomit but it's still my opinion.

I just see evidence in Lever's game that he will become a great tall defender and the key to whatever backline he plays in. His intercept ability, his defensive positioning, his ability to kill contests, read play and see attacking options up the field is way above his experience level for mine. You don't share that opinion and it doesn't seem we are likely to influence each others much.

... and he is very smart, the little things he does are just brilliant

 

[SpongePie]

Don't say I approve of it but potentially...

Collingwood gives pick 6 + 36

Gets Lions picks 12 + 18

Collingwood gives 12+18 to crows

Gets: Lever + steak knives pick or player

Adelaide gives 12 + 18 for Gibbs + steak knives

Blues give pick 12 to GWS for Smith, Kennedy and Griffen

GWS get back in the 1st round and salary cap relief

The above is just a hypothetical, but if Lever is to leave Crows and Gibbs to leave Carlton you sense it will be a complex trade involving third and even fourth parties

Has a 5 way trade every been executed in the history of the trade period?

 

[SpongePie]

I'd trade #6 for Lever, but the Crows can GAGF if they think he's worth a potential top 10 pick next year.

#12 + #18 -> Adelaide
Lever + Saad -> Pies
#6 -> Brisbane
Crows R2 variety -> GC

If they want our two R1 picks. I'd want their two back to be upgrades for them rather than flat out. Lever is better than 6 this year but not better than say 6-10 next year.

I dont mind this setup!

 

[Gone Critical]

My issue with it all is that the reported price is 850K on a 4-5 year contract. That's simply too much for a full back. I reckon only Rance and Talia are worth that much in the whole comp, and Lever is there yet.

If his contract price was more around 650K, then I'd be prepared to offer pick 6. He is still very young and a safer prospect than an untried kid. But he isn't worth 850K

I can see where you are coming from and I share the concern it could be too much. The only rider I would put is I dont have the feel yet for the new TPP. Is the new $850 a bit closer to the old $650 than we are thinking? There is a bit of me that wonders if Lever was on $850 in 2022 we would think we had a bit of a bargain.

 

[SpongePie]

I think people ought to bear in mind that these leaks of offers by Collingwood are likely emanating from Adelaide or his management to shake things up and get a better offer from Melbourne.

Lever wants to go to the Dees.

Possibly, probably. But, until it is done, no harm in looking at options?

 

[Old Spice]

The ones that immediately spring to mind are Andrews, Talia and Taylor.

He isn't being critiqued as an intercept defender. He's being critiqued on the basis that he has no exposed form as a KPD and whilst his physique stacks up as you correctly identified the difficulty will be in translating those natural intercept gifts into a more defensive role.

The two best are Rance and McGovern. Unfortunately he doesn't have anywhere near the pace of Rance nor the core strength of McGovern so in order to make it as a KPD he needs to be tight checking robbing him of much of his intercept brilliance, IMO.

I think we should take a lesson from the Crows who were more prepared to go with a debutant in a KPD post than Lever when Hartigan went out of the line up. They know where his value lies. It's also worth noting that Melbourne are unlikely to use him as a KPD as well.

Yes, let's compare.

At Lever's age, Harry Taylor hadn't yet played a game. Lever creams 21 year old Talia in most categories (16v8 disposals, 6.2v2.6 marks, 1.6 i50v0.6, 81%v74% disposal efficiency, 6.7v4.3 CP, 3.5v1.5 rebound 50s). You'll find that Lever shades Andrews as well. And Rance. And McGovern who,like Taylor, hadn't played yet.

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...d2=2&type=A&pid1=4027&pid2=3326&fid1=O&fid2=O

https://www.footywire.com/afl/footy...2=20&type=A&pid1=4027&pid2=4086&fid1=O&fid2=O

The fact is the guy is very well advanced for someone of his age, and that fact is undeniable. There's become a fixation which is rapidly turning into a fetish over his supposed inability to intercept when no one else at his age would possibly be compared in that way.

 

[Apex36]

Alex Rance - 194cm 95kg
Jake Lever - 194cm 86kg

Get some cheeseburgers into the kid (looks like he has the rack to put the weight on) and sky is the limit. Rance used to get pushed off opponents when he was younger.

Reading the play, intercept marking and creating from the backline are all arguably harder skills to teach than playing 1v1 on a gorilla.

Still not sold at the price and we have other greater needs but “he’s only a third tall” is selling him a bit short as he has the upside (potentially) to be a Rance type KPD weapon once he bulks up.

I don’t see him ending up the same type of defender as a Howe or Schaz.

Dat price tho..

Lever is 195cm and 93kg

 

[TradeDraft]

I think people ought to bear in mind that these leaks of offers by Collingwood are likely emanating from Adelaide or his management to shake things up and get a better offer from Melbourne.

Lever wants to go to the Dees.

Has he said this Himself or Thru his Mangement?

This seems we doing what Richmond tried to do with Treloar

 

[Old Spice]

I definitely think Greenwood should be on the table. Very hard to squeeze him into the 22 at the moment. His only role would be as a pure tagger, but I think Adams could make-shift in this role if need be.

If we could get a 2nd rounder that would be nice. Brisbane have a few by memory.

I'd only be trading Greenwood on the basis of it helping land someone like Lever, otherwise it's musical chairs and in all likelihood a trade bust we'd have to wait a few years for.

 

[piesman1985]

Didn't Elliott have 15 tackles in his second game ? Think he has potential to be a 2 way player, fasolo not so much

Elliot avg tackles for the season 2.2, Fasolo 2.0. Some of Richmond's Mosquito fleet are up around 3.5 - 4 on avg.
Agree Elliot has more potential to improve here than Fas, especially if he can get a full pre season / good run with fitness.

BTW - Cant believe we are now referring to Richmond as the yardstick....however their brand of footy and pressure delivered in September as the Doggies did the year before.

 

[Old Spice]

Alex Rance - 194cm 95kg
Jake Lever - 194cm 86kg

Get some cheeseburgers into the kid (looks like he has the rack to put the weight on) and sky is the limit. Rance used to get pushed off opponents when he was younger.

Reading the play, intercept marking and creating from the backline are all arguably harder skills to teach than playing 1v1 on a gorilla.

Still not sold at the price and we have other greater needs but “he’s only a third tall” is selling him a bit short as he has the upside (potentially) to be a Rance type KPD weapon once he bulks up.

I don’t see him ending up the same type of defender as a Howe or Schaz.

Dat price tho..

Yeah, the price might be the issue - both picks and wage. If we can retain our 2018 first round (for Lynch + 2019 first round) and use pick 6 and something to climb late into this years first round as has been suggested on here, that would be dynamite. The wage might end up being okay if it's over 5. Jettison some loose baggage this year and front load. ASA growth and CBA might mean 850 over 5 is a reasonable amount. I'd prefer the 750k mark p.a..

 

[Kirby]

Has he said this Himself or Thru his Mangement?

This seems we doing what Richmond tried to do with Treloar

Neither him or his management have said anything publicly I believe. It just seems to be a well founded rumour.

 

[magpies42]

Personally i'd stay away from Lever for the reasons that have been identified in this thread. Although that 18 would also guarantee us Saad which might appeal to some. I think that's a bit overs though. I reckon we'll get an early 3rd rounder from Freo for Ramsay and I wonder if that will be enough for Saad. That's my hope but perhaps too optimistic.

I tend to agree. Lever is not our priority. He is not a KPP

 

[TradeDraft]

Neither him or his management have said anything publicly I believe. It just seems to be a well founded rumour.

So it's just a Rumor

 

[Kirby]

So it's just a Rumor

Yes mate, but one you can confidently accept as being true.

We are interested in Lever though and have thrown up pick 6 and a player/players (last i heard anyway).

 

[pie machine]

They won't take pick 6 for Tomlinson & Smith.
That said, I have been told Tomlinson is coming - I trust the person who trusts the other person if you get my drift.

I wonder if GWS would take pick 6 for Tomlinson and there first in 2018, which would be around 15-18

 

[SpongePie]

I wonder if GWS would take pick 6 for Tomlinson and there first in 2018, which would be around 15-18

If next year is the super duper draft to end all super drafts, then that might be worth while...

 

[Old Spice]

*baby walks at 9 months old*

"how shit is his diction?"