Coaching Staff Eye on our Coaching (Ratten, Lade, Batchelor, Slater sign on)

[VDS66]

I think this is the crux of our issues. That gaping hole in our list which was never going to be solved in just a couple of years, and why our re-build was never going to be a straight line improvement each year. Whilst in many ways we have been re-building for 5 years, we were still going backwards in certain aspects during the re-build. So, as we started to move up from the bottom a couple of years ago, that void of mature players kept getting bigger and bigger.

The quickest fix is probably just getting another 20-22 rounds per season into the developing players, and hopefully get a free agent or two. We add 464 games of experience this year, and probably lose noone out of our best 22 off our list. I wish there was a different way to do it, but I think this is the only option at this point in time.

I think that's a fair call. Might have to bite the bullet and make some hard decisions on players.

However the problems are two fold...

Firstly it means forgetting finals this year.

Secondly we have quite a few players going the 50+ game mark so it might be too early to make the call.

Whilst we need mids, go hard at Lynch and trade out Bruce and even Paddy.

Same with McGovern. Be prepared to trade out a B grader for an A grader... Such as Roberton or someone else.

 

[Saint Watto]

I hope Finnis and Summers are furious with Richo and his crew and put a big rocket up the lot of them, make them realise what these occasions mean and representing the club means.

No marquee game in our future sadly, we'll struggle on without. Shot ourselves in the foot there, just like leaving Waverley, just like with Tasmania, just like with Seaford, etc. Another lesson we learned too late.

When walking down the steps at Etihad as fast as I could to get away....I kept thinking...."what the F*** have we just done".....blown a golden opportunity...,future big game wise and dollar wise.....that we so desperately needed.

I was angry and furious.

My head was spinning like a top.....how could we stuff it up so badly.

The implications could be HUGE.

I imagine Prez...Finnis....the corporate,membership and marketing teams would have been pissed to the max.

austinnn.....we had to leave Waverley.....the AFL wanted it shut and sold...problem is the Hawks chose the right venue to go to.......we didn't.....our Prez/board at the time were seduced by what it turned out to be,vastly inflated/incorrect projections on what we would receive in going to the Dome.

Tassie...we can thank GT for that one......HUGE mistake.

Seaford...well.....of course in hindsight....another big mistake.

Onward we March !!!!!

 

[austinnn]

we had to leave Waverley.....the AFL wanted it shut and sold...problem is the Hawks chose the right venue to go to.......we didn't.....our Prez/board at the time were seduced by what it turned out to be,vastly inflated/incorrect projections on what we would receive in going to the Dome.

To clarify, that's exactly what I meant. I know we didn't have a choice about leaving Waverley, but we were so dumb to be pressured into moving to the Docklands instead of demanding the MCG. I'm not sure what Etihad is like now, but it was a poorly built stadium (orientation, turf problems, etc) with no soul and the shitty deal that came with it is widely known. We should have guessed, most fans were suspicious of the new stadium right from the word go, but the club's movers and shakers were naive and it cost us big time.

The only advantage we had moving there is the slight home ground knowledge of being used to those conditions, but being used to playing indoors bit us on the arse anyway many times that we played in real conditions elsewhere.

 

[Palantine]

Interesting reading this thread. Not surprisingly opinions are dived on this. A couple of insights from me:

1. I have a good mate I studied with that has worked as a sports psychologist consultant for a variety of clubs and sports from the US college system, English FA and Premier league clubs and is very familiar with the AFL environment. In his role he has one-on-one consultations with managers/coaches.

He’s pretty unequivocal in his opinion that Aussie Rules as a sport is a long way behind the rest of the world tactics-wise, mainly due to isolation, but also due to an old-school mentality on who can coach (he sees the US system as the most advanced on this with many top-line coaches never having played but have superior tactical minds and teaching skills).

It’s one thing going and visiting other codes, seeing how it is done and getting their IP but another thing totally being able to adapt it to Aussie Rules and then teach it to players. Hawthorn, because of Clarkson, has all of the above and they are cleaning up because of it.

It’s not just him though, you can get a Clarkson disciple (Bevo and Hardwick both come from the Clarkson school) to deliver the goods.

2. Sports tactics are like a virus, they constantly mutate and evolve. In sports played around the world, you simply get more people trying to evolve gameplans etc. It’s globalization in a nutshell. In Aussie Rules? We have the main league, then some state leagues and that’s it! No wonder blokes like Clarkson that look to other sports are gaining a competitive advantage over their peers.

I’m a sports junkie and watch Soccer, Ice Hockey and NFL religiously. There are so many tactics from these global sports that you can take if you are willing to learn. When I see our players not be able to get through the most basic flood like Brad Scott’s on the weekend, it’s very alarming and, yes, that is a coaching issue. The players got flustered, lacked composure and creativity to work their way through the most basic of tactics, one we have seen since Rocket Eade started it all those years ago. That they can be tripped up by such a basic tactic says it all. Do you remember when we tried to flood the Hawks a few years back when we were re-building? Didn’t go to well did it, to the tune of 140 points.

When an inferior team tries to flood, we need to win that game every time and the coaches should teach the players exactly how to do it.

I find it interesting that there are a few posters that put our current predicament more at the feet of the players than the coaches. Well, if that’s true, then we are well and truly ******. We are in for many more years of pain, Melbourne style. I actually think we have the players but that they are losing faith with the coaching staff and their methods.

They have not being given the tools to take on and beat other teams. They are being taught to “work hard” for sure but they now know that it isn’t enough in a professional sports environment to “work hard.” Such old school tactics, especially when pitched at millennials, are dying out across sports pretty quickly. Pressure needs to be applied intelligently, not in a haphazard manner like it is being done for us now. Millennials will buy in, like Richmond did, if they see a method to the madness.

But with Richo it is all pressure and no structure (like Luke Dunstan pointed out).

If this list gets the right teacher and tactician for this group (and they are out there for sure) I have no doubt everything will turn quickly. If they stay as they are, welcome to our new reality: we will be the new Melbourne. It’s a critical time in our club’s history.

I've always been naughtly impressed with Richo's 'work hard' and 'real pressure' because it's stuff we should be doing, and all other clubs are, automatically. Other than this we play-on quickly. What, are we still using faxes down at the club too?

 

[#gosaintas]

Who has said that? He is playing back pocket so he can’t organise the midfield or forward line.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He is a poor captain. The worst in the afl.Incapable of influencing a game. Doesn't even seem capable of organising the backline. Not even best 22.

 

[lewdogs]

He is a poor captain. The worst in the afl.Incapable of influencing a game. Doesn't even seem capable of organising the backline. Not even best 22.

You'd have to be blind to think Geary isn't best 22.

 

[#gosaintas]

You'd have to be blind to think Geary isn't best 22.

Would not make another AFL side

 

[BrutThough]

Would not make another AFL side

he would easily make many sides.

 

[George]

Being a professional Footballer doesn't make moving lockers less distracting, they don't move lockers every week.

I think it could be a factor, but a very minor one at that. There is a lot more at play, i.e. kicking effienciency

I'm not giving them any excuses for that performance.

And we moved before the Brisbane game, and won that game, so I don't see how it could be a reason for last weekend.

 

[Saintbloke]

I don't think any other clubs would be in a hurry to recruit any of our players after the Friday match.

 

[Saint Watto]

We should have guessed, most fans were suspicious of the new stadium right from the word go, but the club's movers and shakers were naive and it cost us big time.

Spot on there austinnn......the place was a nightmare in the early days.....we choose the wrong venue and now have to make the most of it.

Etihad is much much better than it was years ago....inside they gave it a big makeover for the start of the 2016 season....more bars...food outlets and TV's everywhere.

But how I wish we choose the "G" at the time.

The only plus is on a Sat or Fri night in mid winter here.....it's good to be inside rather than freezing yr butt off at the G.

In the days when we were flying....we did have an imposing home ground advantage there......aarrrhhh...the memories.

 

[Saint Watto]

While I was watching training last night and when Henry Playfair was working with the majority of the group.....I couldn't help but wonder this.....

Imagine sitting down with him for a coffee for about half an hour.....and what gets said stays between the 2 of us.

It would be absolutely fascinating to hear what he had to say about the Saints after coming from a successful club like Sydney.

Hearing his insights on our culture....the calibre of people we have across all areas of the club........our systems/development systems..........our game plan if he could actually find it.

I also yesterday thought what if a past Flag coach from say the last 20 years came in for 2 weeks and observed all levels of the club.........what would his thoughts be.

Right...back to the real world.

 

[VDS66]

While I was watching training last night and when Henry Playfair was working with the majority of the group.....I couldn't help but wonder this.....

Imagine sitting down with him for a coffee for about half an hour.....and what gets said stays between the 2 of us.

It would be absolutely fascinating to hear what he had to say about the Saints after coming from a successful club like Sydney.

Hearing his insights on our culture....the calibre of people we have across all areas of the club........our systems/development systems..........our game plan if he could actually find it.

I also yesterday thought what if a past Flag coach from say the last 20 years came in for 2 weeks and observed all levels of the club.........what would his thoughts be.

Right...back to the real world.

I can assure you that Lyon had a bit to say when he moved across.

My understanding is that Playfair has had a say on our structures and we are trying to implement them. So it's not as if he's come in as a yes man.

 

[Saint Watto]

I can assure you that Lyon had a bit to say when he moved across.

My understanding is that Playfair has had a say on our structures and we are trying to implement them. So it's not as if he's come in as a yes man.

VDS66.......very interesting what you say re RTB when he first came across.....I can only imagine.

I was fortunate earlier in the year(mentioned this in a post a few months back) to hear Henry Playfair talking about systems and what he did in Sydney etc etc.

I thought this guy ain't no mug and certainly knew what he was about...was very impressive.

 

[VDS66]

VDS66.......very interesting what you say re RTB when he first came across.....I can only imagine.

I was fortunate earlier in the year(mentioned this in a post a few months back) to hear Henry Playfair talking about systems and what he did in Sydney etc etc.

I thought this guy ain't no mug and certainly knew what he was about...was very impressive.

He is probably cut from the same cloth as Longmire, whom I wanted when we got Lyon.

 

[bird_man]

Spot on there austinnn......the place was a nightmare in the early days.....we choose the wrong venue and now have to make the most of it.

Etihad is much much better than it was years ago....inside they gave it a big makeover for the start of the 2016 season....more bars...food outlets and TV's everywhere.

But how I wish we choose the "G" at the time.

The only plus is on a Sat or Fri night in mid winter here.....it's good to be inside rather than freezing yr butt off at the G.

In the days when we were flying....we did have an imposing home ground advantage there......aarrrhhh...the memories.

Our crowds of 25,000 would look ridiculous at the G

 

[George]

Our crowds of 25,000 would look ridiculous at the G

Last 10 games at MCG

69,104
53,115
35,255
37,797
50,903
22,945
45,197
47,188
32,924
52,184

 

[Saint Watto]

Our crowds of 25,000 would look ridiculous at the G

Fair call bird_man...........I've always wondered if we'd get more at the G.

Very few I know like going to Etihad but they go as it's our home ground...like it or lump it.

I think the G has changed over the years with seating but several years ago....a good chunk was unreserved on the ground level....you could rock up......pay yr GA and grab a seat.

Last year for the Melb game.....the person who bought our tics said there was very little GA seats on the ground level....we did get reserved seats for $50......that was a pricy day with a crap result...lol.

The problem that has always been at Etihad is you sit up with the Gods(if you want a seat) if you have a membership but no reserved seat or a GA tic.

 

[Saint Watto]

Last 10 games at MCG

George...you've answered my question.

Very interesting numbers.

 

[George]

George...you've answered my question.

Very interesting numbers.

And before anyone says it's against big Vic clubs.

In those 10 games we've played the likes of Carlton and Melbourne, along with games that were during our really down years of 2014 and 2015.

 

[bird_man]

Last 10 games at MCG

69,104
53,115
35,255
37,797
50,903
22,945
45,197
47,188
32,924
52,184

Who did we play in each of those games please George?

 

[Marching]

Stravo is that just this year or longer?

Surely there are players running around for the Saints that have leadership qualities or a past in leadership experience?

From my playing experience teams who are confident and have a solid belief are more likely to communicate. When I was coaching I always believed that a game should have been like a running commentary as supporting your team mates by voice was as important as there actions.

The talk is something that is engendered and encouraged at training. It lifts individuals, gives them self belief and a real team ethos. Hence all the training drills mirror what you expect during games. So to hear a team is silent during games raises major alarm bells. What is being driven on the training track?

It was concerning after the team lost the senior players that there would be a leadership vacuum. Perhaps its about the transition between Roo and his strong leadership style and the current lists lack of confidence?

We are looking for answers but in reality all that has been recently raised leads back to the one role - coaching.

Been to 2 trainings over the last couple of weeks and that was a big insight for me. Very very quiet on the track.

 

[George]

Who did we play in each of those games please George?

I'd have to go back to list them all in the correct spots, but it was Carlton, Collingwood, Melbourne, Hawthorn, Richmond. I saw the post that you deleted - Essendon wasn't there.

 

[bird_man]

I'd have to go back to list them all in the correct spots, but it was Carlton, Collingwood, Melbourne, Hawthorn, Richmond. I saw the post that you deleted - Essendon wasn't there.

Fair enough, at a guess you would think the big crowds would have been Richmond, Collingwood and Hawthorn.

I can’t imagine what the crowds would look like if we played the Dogs or North or any of the interstate clubs.

 

[George]

Fair enough, at a guess you would think the big crowds would have been Richmond, Collingwood and Hawthorn.

I can’t imagine what the crowds would look like if we played the Dogs or North or any of the interstate clubs.

Ones that stood out were Rooey's last game vs Richmond, then our 66 celebration against Collingwood...the others I'd have to look again.

It's all about wins and losses. In 2009 & 2010 we averaged 40,000 per game whilst still playing majority of our games at Etihad.

I think that'd be probably the same for most clubs.