Strategy Trade and List management (Add your rumour to the simmering stew that is the post season. Edition.)

[TedDougChris]

Been saying this for a few weeks now that we need a good old clean out. Good to see others are starting to realise it too.

Get as many top 50 picks in this draft as we can.

So who goes (or are you suggesting goes) that has some value, doesn't make us any younger and we don't miss too badly.... ?

 

[Wizard17]

Agree, but don't see how. West and Khamis look like they'll hoover up the points, our best bet is to get a first round pick before the West bid so at least we have three top 50 prospects.

We have picks from next years draft too. At this stage none of our f/s from next year are in the West territory in terms of picks needed. Most are rookies at best. Also we get a discount on West from memory (20%?) so a pick in the 20's should cover him and our 3rd covers Khamis.

Also we can trade players out for draft picks or upgrades.

 

[TedDougChris]

We have picks from next years draft too. At this stage none of our f/s from next year are in the West territory in terms of picks needed. Most are rookies at best. Also we get a discount on West from memory (20%?) so a pick in the 20's should cover him and our 3rd covers Khamis.

Also we can trade players out for draft picks or upgrades.

Ok, so we trade next years picks for this years to fill the gap. Hadn't looked at that option, little concerned about robbing Peter to pay Paul, but innovative....

 

[Golden_6]

I'd be looking at getting rid of:
Campbell
Roberts
Collins
Lynch
Morris (retire)
Mullenger-McHugh
R Smith
Honeychurch
C Smith
Dickson
Picken (stay if he's not retiring).

Some of those are harsh calls but we need to be more ruthless. Highly unlikely we turn over 11 but easily 7-8 of those should be moved on.

Draft West & Khamis, 3 new rookies from a deep draft, and 2-3 new mature additions.

 

[Wizard17]

So who goes (or are you suggesting goes) that has some value, doesn't make us any younger and we don't miss too badly.... ?

Most of the players that I'm thinking about at this stage can't even get on the park or don't have much value. Need to use our draft picks that we do have wisely and try and get as much as we can for the players that are traded out.

 

[Wizard17]

I'd be looking at getting rid of:
Campbell
Roberts
Collins
Lynch
Morris (retire)
Mullenger-McHugh
R Smith
Honeychurch
C Smith
Dickson
Picken (stay if he's not retiring).

Some of those are harsh calls but we need to be more ruthless. Highly unlikely we turn over 11 but easily 7-8 of those should be moved on.

Draft West & Khamis, 3 new rookies from a deep draft, and 2-3 new mature additions.

Pretty sure we got rid of 10 last year and if the top end of this draft says anything we'll try and get as many as we can from this draft. Maybe a mature mid or forward but the rest should be taking advantage of this draft pool.

Ok, so we trade next years picks for this years to fill the gap. Hadn't looked at that option, little concerned about robbing Peter to pay Paul, but innovative....

Strong draft this year. With the way we are right now it would be best for us to take advantage of it even with our academy players and father son.

 

[TedDougChris]

Most of the players that I'm thinking about at this stage can't even get on the park or don't have much value. Need to use our draft picks that we do have wisely and try and get as much as we can for the players that are traded out.

My concern is that doesn't get us quality picks. Delisting 10 won't get us quality picks. So you would need to trade to start getting picks back - but who ??

 

[VitalDread]

Been saying this for a few weeks now that we need a good old clean out. Good to see others are starting to realise it too.

Get as many top 50 picks in this draft as we can.

Next Gen Academy helps getting somewhat free talent as well. Couple of mature players in the WAFL, SNAFL would be solid pick ups late in draft to fill the gap (20-23 year olds)

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Most of the players that I'm thinking about at this stage can't even get on the park or don't have much value. Need to use our draft picks that we do have wisely and try and get as much as we can for the players that are traded out.

You've said it yourself, most of the players various posters are listing have little to no trade value. Can we really afford to cut too deeply, and make our list younger? Guys like Roughead and Dickson (depending on his injury profile) are needed for experience/balance, given that they are at least on a par with any young draftee for 2019. If we lose Morris and Picken, and trade/delist Campbell and Roberts, our age profile will be even more out of whack, and we would need to trade in or acquire free agents who are mid-20s at least to provide short-fall. The last few weeks, Wood and Suckling have been our most experienced players, and while I believe the endeavour is there, we're a long way short in the on-field leadership/experience stakes.

 

[Golden_6]

My concern is that doesn't get us quality picks. Delisting 10 won't get us quality picks. So you would need to trade to start getting picks back - but who ??

Anyone worth quality picks on our list I wouldn't be trading. The best hope is that our first pick is before West is bid on. Walking away from the draft with a top 10 talent, West and Khamis is more than fine. There should be plenty of quality talent available later in the draft.

 

[Braybrook Son]

Been thinking about Richards moving to a wing longer term. Midfield desperately needs some speed and class.

Yes Fronk, I think this is exactly what we need mate. You hit it on the head.

 

[TedDougChris]

I'd be looking at getting rid of:
Campbell
Roberts
Collins
Lynch
Morris (retire)
Mullenger-McHugh
R Smith
Honeychurch
C Smith
Dickson
Picken (stay if he's not retiring).

Everyone has their favourites, so keep that in mind....

BTC - agreed
Roberts - agreed
Collins - keep, one year - which ever way needed
Lynch - agreed, although I like what he has.
Morris - up to him
MMcH - haven't seen enough, but seems (on list balance) to be covered elsewhere
R Smith - agreed
C Smith - agreed
Honeychurch - by the looks, we will see enough to get a decision one way or the other. I would move on.
Dickson - agreed
Picken - think medical will force his decision
Webb - trade (as much as we haven't helped, I can't see him turning it around).

Personally, I wouldn't get rid of Morris, Roberts, Collins at the same time. Leaves us with Adams (made of biscuits), Young, Trengove and Naughton. Or we draft another young KPD - which isn't ideal... From a development or picks perspective....

That's 10 out by my count...

 

[Wizard17]

Next Gen Academy helps getting somewhat free talent as well. Couple of mature players in the WAFL, SNAFL would be solid pick ups late in draft to fill the gap (20-23 year olds)

Maybe Schoilthe (sp?) if he has another dominant season in the WAFL.

The early pick we currently have in the draft could be handy if we get a more ready bodied mid like Bytel or Hately too.

I like some of the small forwards available in the TAC Cup too Brayden Ham (Geelong Falcons), Jed Hill (GWV) and Jai Nanscawen (Dandenong) that might be around later in the draft if we are lucky. Generally these sort of players can come on very quickly.

You've said it yourself, most of the players various posters are listing have little to no trade value. Can we really afford to cut too deeply, and make our list younger? Guys like Roughead and Dickson (depending on his injury profile) are needed for experience/balance, given that they are at least on a par with any young draftee for 2019. If we lose Morris and Picken, and trade/delist Campbell and Roberts, our age profile will be even more out of whack, and we would need to trade in or acquire free agents who are mid-20s at least to provide short-fall. The last few weeks, Wood and Suckling have been our most experienced players, and while I believe the endeavour is there, we're a long way short in the on-field leadership/experience stakes.

Wouldn't be getting rid of Roughead or Roberts. Dickson might stay on just because of our lack of a replacement for him.

And when did I say that we don't go for mature players or free agency? having 5 or so picks for juniors in this national draft should be good enough. 1-3 as rookies (if the rookie list isn't abolished) and 2-4 mature players through the draft or free agency.

 

[Golden_6]

Personally, I wouldn't get rid of Morris, Roberts, Collins at the same time. Leaves us with Adams (made of biscuits), Young, Trengove and Naughton. Or we draft another young KPD - which isn't ideal... From a development or picks perspective....

Normally I'd agreed but Roberts has to go. I still think he was handy depth that could play a role on any given week, but his papers are surely stamped considering Bevo would prefer to play a 4th gamer as a lone KPD than play Roberts. He's under contract so I guess some time will need to want him as depth. Maybe a Collingwood or a Melbourne.

 

[Braybrook Son]

I'd be looking at getting rid of:
Campbell
Roberts
Collins
Lynch
Morris (retire)
Mullenger-McHugh
R Smith
Honeychurch
C Smith
Dickson
Picken (stay if he's not retiring).

Some of those are harsh calls but we need to be more ruthless. Highly unlikely we turn over 11 but easily 7-8 of those should be moved on.

Draft West & Khamis, 3 new rookies from a deep draft, and 2-3 new mature additions.

Add Dahlhaus and Roughead. We need to add value, we’re not getting much value from the list you mention, but I would move them all on too!

 

[Del165892]

Any interest in brad sheppard? Very good half back. Was a high draft pick who i think could realise his full potential under bevo

 

[TedDougChris]

Normally I'd agreed but Roberts has to go. I still think he was handy depth that could play a role on any given week, but his papers are surely stamped considering Bevo would prefer to play a 4th gamer as a lone KPD than play Roberts. He's under contract so I guess some time will need to want him as depth. Maybe a Collingwood or a Melbourne.

Then we need to keep Morris and/or Collins in my view....

 

[ivan rassmussen]

Maybe Schoilthe (sp?) if he has another dominant season in the WAFL.

The early pick we currently have in the draft could be handy if we get a more ready bodied mid like Bytel or Hately too.

I like some of the small forwards available in the TAC Cup too Brayden Ham (Geelong Falcons), Jed Hill (GWV) and Jai Nanscawen (Dandenong) that might be around later in the draft if we are lucky. Generally these sort of players can come on very quickly.


Wouldn't be getting rid of Roughead or Roberts. Dickson might stay on just because of our lack of a replacement for him.

And when did I say that we don't go for mature players or free agency? having 5 or so picks for juniors in this national draft should be good enough. 1-3 as rookies (if the rookie list isn't abolished) and 2-4 mature players through the draft or free agency.

Wasn't saying either way what your age targets would be, just wondering how you would fill up to 10 spots on the list. I agree we need to turn over the list, but with such a young list profile, can we afford to cut that deep? Free agents can be sounded out before delistings to cover ourselves, not as much guarantee with drafting older players though - and would drafted mature agers be any better than those we would be letting go? Just curious what you think, as there are many scenarios to be played out, and our list management team would want to be sure we covered them to maintain integrity of our list.

 

[bobby2]

Any interest in brad sheppard? Very good half back. Was a high draft pick who i think could realise his full potential under bevo

I don't think he'd improve our team much, so I'd only be interested if he came cheaply. He isn't substantially better than any of JJ, Wood, Williams, Suckling, Crozier, an in-form Biggs, or a year-older Richards, and we really only need 4 or 5 of those guys in the team each week.

Crozier was held back by Lyon's negativity and being played forward, so it made sense that Bevo might be able to get more out of him. I don't think Bevo would do much for Sheppard that Simpson hasn't, given West Coast already play aggressively attacking footy out of the backline.

 

[Mofra]

Then we need to keep Morris and/or Collins in my view....

Naughton, Cordy, Adams, Young and Trengove are surely enough cover.

Sounds like we keep Collins anyway and I'd want Morris around the place next year simply as a mentor/guide even if we have to heavily manage him through a 8-10 game season. Fletch, sadly, is expendable and well behind the others simply due to pace and size.

 

[Wizard17]

Wasn't saying either way what your age targets would be, just wondering how you would fill up to 10 spots on the list. I agree we need to turn over the list, but with such a young list profile, can we afford to cut that deep? Free agents can be sounded out before delistings to cover ourselves, not as much guarantee with drafting older players though - and would drafted mature agers be any better than those we would be letting go? Just curious what you think, as there are many scenarios to be played out, and our list management team would want to be sure we covered them to maintain integrity of our list.

Most clubs cut around that many players each year or pretty close to it, teams outside the 8 tend to cut a little deeper which is what we are right now. With the quality in this years draft I see most clubs opening quite a few list spots.

 

[maddog37]

Any interest in brad sheppard? Very good half back. Was a high draft pick who i think could realise his full potential under bevo

Yep. How do we get him tho?

 

[LittleG]

Fringe / older player likely values in trade assets:
Campbell - negligible
Roberts - 4th round pick upgrade
Collins - 3rd round pick upgrade BUT I would keep him for another year.
Lynch - negligible
Morris (retire) - retired
Mullenger-McHugh - negligible
R Smith - negligible
Honeychurch - 4th round pick upgrade
C Smith - maybe a late 3rd rounder
Dickson - negligible
Picken (stay if he's not retiring) - negligible but should be retained.
Webb - 4th round upgrade

So, all those players out and we might get a 3rd rounder and upgrade a fourth rounder a few positions.


I am sure a clean out is necessary but we need to stomach the fact the players we are going to get are going to be highly speculative and unlikely to be as good as those we are letting go.

We really need to bring in big name players from other clubs. Overpay in salary if required, just get it done. Free Agents only but let's be a renovator rather than a rebuilder.

 

[TedDougChris]

Naughton, Cordy, Adams, Young and Trengove are surely enough cover.

Sounds like we keep Collins anyway and I'd want Morris around the place next year simply as a mentor/guide even if we have to heavily manage him through a 8-10 game season. Fletch, sadly, is expendable and well behind the others simply due to pace and size.

Forgot Cordy in my list before (curse of doing things quickly and not checking), which does make things better. Adams is made of biscuits though...

Agree with you, I think half a season of Morris teaching is worth more than a late pick is likely to add..

If we use this approach, Fletcher is on very shaky ground....

 

[TedDougChris]

Fringe / older player likely values in trade assets:
Campbell - negligible
Roberts - 4th round pick upgrade
Collins - 3rd round pick upgrade BUT I would keep him for another year.
Lynch - negligible
Morris (retire) - retired
Mullenger-McHugh - negligible
R Smith - negligible
Honeychurch - 4th round pick upgrade
C Smith - maybe a late 3rd rounder
Dickson - negligible
Picken (stay if he's not retiring) - negligible but should be retained.
Webb - 4th round upgrade

So, all those players out and we might get a 3rd rounder and upgrade a fourth rounder a few positions.


I am sure a clean out is necessary but we need to stomach the fact the players we are going to get are going to be highly speculative and unlikely to be as good as those we are letting go.

We really need to bring in big name players from other clubs. Overpay in salary if required, just get it done. Free Agents only but let's be a renovator rather than a rebuilder.

If we get rid of many, can we chase someone like Gaff ???