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Is this a joke?
Return to Zones on the agenda...
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Zones are open to underhanded deals, I dont like it. I can see powerful clubs getting big prospects to move into their zone a couple of years before draft age in order to have them in their catchment area.
says a hawthorn supporter lol. ofcourse you believe its a myth.
exactly.
Viceregal
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“We’re going to be in discussions around what zones make sense for us ... intuitively that area in the Diamond Valley is the heart and soul, but we’ve got a big partnership down in the Latrobe Valley now where we are doing a lot of work with the State government and local government; and we’d love to do a little bit more around talent development there, but it’s not our zone"
Could be ...
Your advocacy of the NRL system is a little too focused on the competitive outcomes of the NRL competition itself and not on all the other factors that are relevant to the consideration of a zone-based academy system. It also does not consider the differences between the sports themselves and the different ambitions and footprints in non-traditional areas.
Rugby League is a far simpler game than Australian football. The critical play maker positions are very limited in each team - you only have one number 9 and a 7 and a 6. If you are a talented half back or hooker and someone is ahead of you, it is almost certain that another club will offer you a superior contract and opportunity.
In the AFL it has proven very hard to rebuild a team once the arse has fallen out and this is several years after free agency has come in. This is more likely related to the nature of the game itself and the priorities of the players than the system.
I'm not sure of the NRL's junior elite pathways system. I know they got rid of the U20s recently. What zone based academies is create the incentive for clubs to invest in elite development rather than outbidding each-other for prospective talent.
People seem to be missing this objectives. How do we get the best talented juniors to end being great AFL players at the lowest cost. You don't achieve this with a free for all
The salary cap is also open to underhanded deals....far easier and more nefarious in fact.
Powerful clubs inducing players (presumably who have already spent a few years in another clubs academy) to move zones would presumably not be allowed and policed. And the payoff would be that they'd merely get last bidders rights perhaps with a discount.
Obviously you would also need to know who was playing under a scholarship and who had enrolled as a full paying year 7. Very hard to disentangle what part having a well resourced football program had to play and what part having a well resourced scouting and scholarship program
So they got rid of priority picks because it was unbalanced and you want to bring in a rule that means only 6 teams a year get a first rounder?
That is nuts. Hypothetical: Your team is coming 7th last going into the last round split by percentage with 6th last. What do you think is going to happen in that situation?
It is no longer the difference between pick 6 instead of 7 it becomes the difference between picks 6, 12, 18 or 19, 25, 31 - ridiculous. It HEAVILY promotes tanking and creates a massive disparity between teams who could literally be separated by an umpiring decision or 1 kick on goal over the course of a whole season.
It adds to the debate that private schools throw more money at their programmes and if they get more success
Out of SA the recent draftees off my head are burton Heywood Francis Fogarty All 1st rounders and All from private schools
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Sure. It certainly adds to the argument that there is inefficient duplication or resources. If the schools want to pour money into elite development than it might best to just have club based academies complementing that rather than the AFL paying millions on the TAC cup
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Competitive outcome is literally the entire point of the salary cap...
Actually Sharenberg was also a private school lad
Problem with private schools they pay the $$ and are very controlling also not allowing players to play for local leagues and such well that’s here in SA
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While it would hugely disadvantage many teams for different reasons, I like the idea of it as a model for building better connectedness to zones and junior footy. Would be great to have pockets of states with team loyalty. Create more associations with clubs etc and might actually get more people interested in local footy.
But agree that this is more of a pipe dream or romantic notion that would be hard to achieve and have detrimental side effects in the short to medium term to some clubs.
But agree that this is more of a pipe dream or romantic notion that would be hard to achieve and have detrimental side effects in the short to medium term to some clubs.
As I said in 2015:
Please don't bring in zones. They'll never be fair and will consign a side with a bad zone to the foot of the ladder with little hope. Most likely it will be some club with a poor zone or a team without the money to properly run its own academy. It will make the competition lop sided and as much as I think that Richmond would benefit from the zones idea because Richmond is not to bad off field right now, and because Richmond and the surrounding areas are fairly well built, I just don't like the idea of a side succeeding because of how an AFL administrator drew the lines. The AFL, bought to you by Sykes and Picot.
I stand by my original comment. Zones are dumb and they undermine the draft which is a critically important way of achieving equality. I also like the theatrics of the draft, but also the fact that drafting is a skill, unlike zones, which doesn't seem to involve much skill at all. We already have a compromised draft with father-sons, academies and the like, now we're going to implement zones? No, just, no.
Please don't bring in zones. They'll never be fair and will consign a side with a bad zone to the foot of the ladder with little hope. Most likely it will be some club with a poor zone or a team without the money to properly run its own academy. It will make the competition lop sided and as much as I think that Richmond would benefit from the zones idea because Richmond is not to bad off field right now, and because Richmond and the surrounding areas are fairly well built, I just don't like the idea of a side succeeding because of how an AFL administrator drew the lines. The AFL, bought to you by Sykes and Picot.
I stand by my original comment. Zones are dumb and they undermine the draft which is a critically important way of achieving equality. I also like the theatrics of the draft, but also the fact that drafting is a skill, unlike zones, which doesn't seem to involve much skill at all. We already have a compromised draft with father-sons, academies and the like, now we're going to implement zones? No, just, no.
smasha
It's Time!
Richmond will adapt then what will everyone say?
How can zones be such a bad thing for the individual players obviously a WA boy getting stay in WA with family and friends at 18 years of age can only be seen as a positive for the lad
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Is the AFL about equality, or ensuring Jimmy Perthian gets to play for his beloved eagles? I don't care about 18 year olds getting to the team they want, they join a league which works with a draft system to ensure every team can win a premiership, so they have to play along and go to the club they're drafted to. If they don't want that, go do something else.
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With or without zones I've been a fan of this idea for a while now. Would make player trades so much easier and reduce the need for free agency.
So the current handicap system they have is good with f/s to worry about playing where your dad played it’s about equality for all clubs isn’t it
Or northern state academy for say GWS who already seem strong
At least keeping a kid say in WA shows some compassion
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Can't happen soon enough.
All this double handling of junior development and development falling to old state leagues with nothing to gain is a relic of an ad hoc league that came about without any thought going into the practicalities of future development of the game.
Development has to catch up with the realities of the competition. A national reserves comp (with curtain raisers) and junior/academy squads that can be drawn on to act as top ups in the national reserves are logical steps.
All this double handling of junior development and development falling to old state leagues with nothing to gain is a relic of an ad hoc league that came about without any thought going into the practicalities of future development of the game.
Development has to catch up with the realities of the competition. A national reserves comp (with curtain raisers) and junior/academy squads that can be drawn on to act as top ups in the national reserves are logical steps.
You can still have academy based zones and an equal system. As Marty has pointed out, we already have northern academies, NG academies, father-sons etc. The article suggests it would just be an extension of this - i.e. you would only get a player from your academy by matching the highest bid (less whatever discount)
The key is, however you set it up, you could use a discount system...as an example...
So under this approach, the WA clubs would be able to match the bid of any player they wanted but they would not get a discount on account of having the strongest zone
The NSW and QLD clubs would get the biggest discounts on account of having predominantly non-traditional zones.
The Vic and SA clubs would get discounts in between based on a lower population share but in traditional states
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Agree totally with this. I think if you went to a full academy system then the draft would be ridiculous but even now it is very clunky in the way it attempts to accommodate academies and free agency compensations.
A points based auction system is the way to go. Under the current arrangements you would need to work out the order players are auctioned off so to speak....I suspect you would need some system of nomination (perhaps under current draft order for simplicity) because you couldn't have a situation where kids names are being read out and no one bidding anything
If all players are pre-nominated as they would be under an academy system than the auction would work perfectly. Free agency would be compensated according to a formula. Players would be traded for points. All bidding would be done in points.
I do wonder what the AFL are thinking heading down the "live trading" route and whether it is just a case being a little too liberally taking on NFL innovations regardless of their fit here. Players are never going to agree to live trading and you surely can't do it with 18 year old kids so it will only ever be for draft picks. It works in the US because the rookies have just emerged from a pseudo professional college environment and are mostly 21 / 22 and the EBA environment allows players to be moved without their permission
An auction system where everyone is already invested in the best players because they have been in their academies could actually make great television in a way that the draft has never done
So apparently over 20 players (over a quarter) of draft picks in this years draft are likely to be subjected to priority matching bids because of academy membership (either NGA, father son or northern)
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-pool-drained-by-academies-20180502-p4zcxn.html
Obviously the slant in this article misses the obvious - the academies are clearly providing superior development than the existing development programs
Likewise, where there is much handwringing about Sydney about to snare the third top 3 worthy draft pick at a discount in just 4 years, the real lesson is, the Swans academy is clearly responsible for a quarter of the "top 3 worthies" over four years coming from Sydney and the Hunter. The year before last Heeney and Mills shared the rising star and coach's best young player awards between them
Surely the implication of all this is that these academies are the way forward for all elite pathway development?
https://www.theage.com.au/sport/afl/afl-draft-pool-drained-by-academies-20180502-p4zcxn.html
Obviously the slant in this article misses the obvious - the academies are clearly providing superior development than the existing development programs
Likewise, where there is much handwringing about Sydney about to snare the third top 3 worthy draft pick at a discount in just 4 years, the real lesson is, the Swans academy is clearly responsible for a quarter of the "top 3 worthies" over four years coming from Sydney and the Hunter. The year before last Heeney and Mills shared the rising star and coach's best young player awards between them
Surely the implication of all this is that these academies are the way forward for all elite pathway development?
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