Society/Culture The tax system explained in beer

[Messenger]

Casual employment is protected by minimum wage and minimum three hour shifts, so it will cost a business $60 to have someone perform one task which may or may not represent value for money.

Part of my job is workforce planning so presented with the scenario you provide my question always is “does this role generate or protect revenue?”. If the answer to both question is no, then you’d have to really make sure you can do the work with the staff on site already.

Casual workers have fairly minimal protections already and some lead a fairly precarious existence economically. I don’t see the benefit of eroding those protections.

Imagine an app where businesses could offer little jobs for any reward they wanted, hundreds of little jobs like picking up some pens from Officeworks that they will pay $5 for or proof reading an article for $30 etc.

Thousands of projects, collectively $100,000s of jobs on offer and although the employee might develop a relationship with an employer if they choose - they have the power to jump off and go to other offers whenever they like for whatever price they think is fair for their time.

You’re talking about Airtasker. And Uber, Lyft and any other version of the “gig economy”. I’d like to see stats on what tasks are being performed. Are we seeing lots of enterprising people producing lines of code for short term briefs or is it more unskilled workers doing menial tasks?

That sort of work is probably good for supplementing income, but could you generate a living wage?

And we already know Uber has been criticised for its employment practices.

That is much more of an example of a free market and it highlights the power of the employee, because they choose the jobs and they choose the pay - just like everyone else working has, the app only highlights that because those jobs that offered too low a price are left and those who offer above value are snapped up quickly.

I believe that with more jobs on offer than people to do them we won't need regulation or protective laws for employees, because the market would find out the bad work places quickly and abandon them for the better ones until they either go out of business or change their offers.

I’d question your assumptions about who ultimately has the most influence over price in that sort of market.

I’d disagree on the need for regulation and protections though. Employees should be able to expect the same level of care and protection for their wellbeing in any workplace. You generally get a better work product from people who feel they are valued and respected. Just my $0.02.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Again with this repeated statement that that those who get well rewarded in the economic system MUST have worked hard. Tis is just piffle. Hard work has little to do with being well paid.

Why is the premier league dominated by handful of clubs?

If you work hard, smart and have good people skills you will make good money. What I am noticing is that the people skills aspect seems to be the most important aspect.

Bottom line is the opportunity exist for everyone to earn a good wage in Australia it is just that some people are not as talented of hard working as others.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

And which fictional universe is this free marker operating in? It''s a non existent fairly tale. Any case even if this free market existed , market isn't determination of wages isn't about value, it's about supply and demand (in theory) of the labour, it says very little about the actual value of that labour.

It is called basic supply and demand, it is a very simple concept especially when it comes to the labour force .

Lets pretend we have 2 country towns with restaurants all looking for chefs .

Town A has 10 restaurants and 5 chefs living in the town.

Town B also has 10 restaurants but has 25 chefs living in town .

The restaurant's in town A will have to pay a much higher wage to get a chef than those in town B.

Value from an economic stand point is always determined by supply and demand, no other practical option exists.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

I know what I said. And I certainly didn’t say parents can’t employ their children.

What I’d did say is that if Daddy gave you a job, don’t lecture the rest of us on “getting ahead”.



How long did that take you to write? A Bachelors Degree in the Cultural Issues of Little Brown People!

You clever little Fella, eh!

Those comments were directed at a poster who repeatedly said all rich people were greedy b________ who constantly S__ and P___ on the rest of society.

If you can actually name 1 policy I suggested that is extreme or cruel I would like to hear it ?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

The only time we've had excessive employment demand was post WW2 when we imported labour for the big infrastructure projects.

So we should remove the "protections in place that people benefit from" to free up the labour market?

My concern is we're just deepening the chasm between the have and have nots. Personally I think that would be a problem.

The unfair dismissal law for small businesses should go, not for big or even medium just small for 2 reasons.

1.Obviously it makes it easier for a small business to employ someone especially someone who has been long term unemployed.
2.It is just not tenable in a small business to have a worker there who the owner wants to get rid off but cant, life would not be pleasant for the worker either.

Also I made a thread about this but why do you care about the gap between the rich and the poor ? sure making life better for the poor is a good thing but who cares about the gap between them and the rich as it seems like this is just jealousy .

 

[sherb]

The unfair dismissal law for small businesses should go, not for big or even medium just small for 2 reasons.

1.Obviously it makes it easier for a small business to employ someone especially someone who has been long term unemployed.
2.It is just not tenable in a small business to have a worker there who the owner wants to get rid off but cant, life would not be pleasant for the worker either.

Also I made a thread about this but why do you care about the gap between the rich and the poor ? sure making life better for the poor is a good thing but who cares about the gap between them and the rich as it seems like this is just jealousy .

Thank heavens all small business owners are fine, upstanding corporate citizens.

http://junkee.com/barry-cafe-sue-workers/156171

 

[pugsville]

It is called basic supply and demand, it is a very simple concept especially when it comes to the labour force .

Lets pretend we have 2 country towns with restaurants all looking for chefs .

Town A has 10 restaurants and 5 chefs living in the town.

Town B also has 10 restaurants but has 25 chefs living in town .

The restaurant's in town A will have to pay a much higher wage to get a chef than those in town B.

Value from an economic stand point is always determined by supply and demand, no other practical option exists.

SO you agree.? You withdraw your earlier claim that the value of the work affected wages? Rather than the supply demand of the skills?\

YOu are contradicting yourself here.

 

[pugsville]

If you work hard, smart and have good people skills you will make good money. What I am noticing is that the people skills aspect seems to be the most important aspect.

Bottom line is the opportunity exist for everyone to earn a good wage in Australia it is just that some people are not as talented of hard working as others.

So hard work is not directly related to making good money, Thank you for you admission of eror,

 

[Messenger]

Also I made a thread about this but why do you care about the gap between the rich and the poor ? sure making life better for the poor is a good thing but who cares about the gap between them and the rich as it seems like this is just jealousy .

We’re concentrating wealth in the hand of the few at the expense of the many. Why aren’t you concerned?

 

[geelong_crazy26]

Thank heavens all small business owners are fine, upstanding corporate citizens.

http://junkee.com/barry-cafe-sue-workers/156171

I don't think for 1 second they are all good people. However the reality is that a bad small business owner is going to make life very unpleasant for an employee who they want to fire for but can not for legal reasons.

It would also be equally wrong to say there are no bad workers who small businesses can not fire for legal reasons. Remember more people work for small than big business so we need them to do well and be profitable.

Remember a the lower the unemployment level is the better life is for the workers because they can not so easily be replaced, removing the unfair dismissal law means lower unemployment.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

SO you agree.? You withdraw your earlier claim that the value of the work affected wages? Rather than the supply demand of the skills?\

YOu are contradicting yourself here.

d

The 2 go hand in hand. The value of a persons work is by in large determined by the laws of supply and demand . If plenty of other people can do the exact same job than their value decreases.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

So hard work is not directly related to making good money, Thank you for you admission of eror,

Said a number of times its not just about hard work however it is a major factor. You also need to be smart and make good choices.

Nothing new here.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

We’re concentrating wealth in the hand of the few at the expense of the many. Why aren’t you concerned?

What you seem to be suggesting is that the rich are taking money from everyone else ? this idea is just wrong.

Rich people get rich by performing voluntary transactions on the free market.

We are also all connected and unless rich people hide their money under a mattress will stimulate the economy by spending, investing, taking risks and employing people.

 

[pugsville]

What you seem to be suggesting is that the rich are taking money from everyone else ? this idea is just wrong.

the money comes from somewhere the economy is all interconnected, The money is coming from society.

Rich people get rich by performing voluntary transactions on the free market.

there is no such thing as a free market,

We are also all connected and unless rich people hide their money under a mattress will stimulate the economy by spending, investing, taking risks and employing people.

but rich people spend less of their money than poor people. more lily to do so with rent taking investments which do not employ people.

 

[pugsville]

Said a number of times its not just about hard work however it is a major factor. You also need to be smart and make good choices.
.

What percentage of hard working people are rich? Birth, class, are much bigger determinates.

 

[Taylor]

You'd have a hard time arguing that many in Australia are poor unless you exclude all the rest of the planet.

Not as wealthy, absolutely.

Even then we need to draw a line somewhere to suit an argument.

There is bound to be far more not wealthy than wealthy and if birthrates are even, which isn't true globally, then the divide between will get bigger as more "less wealthy" people are born.

But on the planetary scale, we have most of the wealthy people here.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

the money comes from somewhere the economy is all interconnected, The money is coming from society.


there is no such thing as a free market,


but rich people spend less of their money than poor people. more lily to do so with rent taking investments which do not employ people.

Society is not a living breathing thing, it does not have a mind of its own with its own interest, it does no work it does it does nothing.

Society is just word that is used to describe a collective of individuals which is what we all are, individuals, living breathing individuals with minds and interests of our own.

Yes the money comes from somewhere and as I said rich people are rich because they perform a large number of voluntary transactions or sometimes a small number of highly valued transactions on the free market. Can you give examples in Australia of rich people forcing other people to perform some kind of commercial transaction ? I have never had a rich person put a gun to my head and tell me to do something.

Rich people spend a smaller % of their money than the rest, however rich people are best able to invest, take risks, develop new commodities and pay wages which is what is needed for economic growth and a better quality of life for everyone.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

What percentage of hard working people are rich? Birth, class, are much bigger determinates.

In most cases people who are hard working but don't earn much did not work hard when they were at school. If they had worked hard at school they would of entered a profession that paid well. So working hard at school is also important.

As I said its not 100% about working hard as people also need to work smart, and have good people skills.

Bottom line is that if you make good choices and that includes choosing to work hard than anyone in Australia can be rich. Talking about other people having an easier ride is just jealousy.

 

[sherb]

I don't think for 1 second they are all good people. However the reality is that a bad small business owner is going to make life very unpleasant for an employee who they want to fire for but can not for legal reasons.

It would also be equally wrong to say there are no bad workers who small businesses can not fire for legal reasons. Remember more people work for small than big business so we need them to do well and be profitable.

Remember a the lower the unemployment level is the better life is for the workers because they can not so easily be replaced, removing the unfair dismissal law means lower unemployment.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/que...g-fired-having-hours-cut-20180428-p4zc8q.html

 

[geelong_crazy26]

https://www.smh.com.au/national/que...g-fired-having-hours-cut-20180428-p4zc8q.html

Few points

1.Shine is an activist law firm and I have a very hard time believing those figures.

2.The penalty for a business not taking care of its workers can be astronomical .If we really do have a problem with workers not being safe at work than that is a law and order problem. When I keep telling you guys that we need to cut money everywhere but defence and law and order I am also talking about workplace safety laws. How about we cut back money elsewhere and give some more to Worksafe ?

3.The best thing that can happen to a person working for a business who doesn't care about their safety is get fired.

 

[Rotayjay]

Such a shame how Donald Trump's unsustainable tax cuts are placing pressure on Australia's government to cut taxes for our biggest corporations at the expense of hospitals, schools and the nation's most vulnerable people.

Find an extra $20 a week for someone who lost their job and can't make ends meet? No way Jose, 'the best form of welfare is a job!' as if the unemployed are just choosing not to walk up to the job tree and pick a job off of it. Find billions of dollars to save BHP and Commbank off their tax bills? No worries lads, will do.

This is why right-wing politics is morally abhorrent.

 

[nicky]

So why don't you ask your dad why he didn't set up a business like my dad did ?

They are jealous because their dad didnt even buy them a Mercedes-Benz.

It is like, when you arent handed a family business from your Daddy then it is reasonable to ask him wtf did he do with his life? "Serious dad, like you didnt even set me up for life with a family business, du-uh"

You are not even lucky. You deserve a free ride. I dont know what it is exactly, but i KNOW that there is something soo special about you. You are better than most and if anything, i am concerned that your father hasnt given you enough, Mercedes are perceived as s**t cars in Europe and I passionately believe you deserve much better.

 

[nicky]

We’re concentrating wealth in the hand of the few at the expense of the many. Why aren’t you concerned?

Is concern going to upgrade his Merc to a Ferrari? Otherwise what is in it for him?

Without having to contribute to his lucky monetary position in life, the wind is blowing in the beneficial direction for him to get more. Apart from being a reasonable empathetic human being with a social conscience, why should he give a fk about those less fortunate than him?

 

[nicky]

If people come from a wealthy parents than they at benefiting from good decisions someone is their family has made who has than decided to share that money with his family. If your family is not wealthy than that is not someone else's problem and you got to get up of the couch and go and do some hard work.

Fk yeah totally.

Even if the kids from the wealthy parents are really dumb, the game of life should be rigged to their advantage, giving them opportunities above MUCH smarter kids from poorer families, because, yeah just because.

 

[geelong_crazy26]

They are jealous because their dad didnt even buy them a Mercedes-Benz.

It is like, when you arent handed a family business from your Daddy then it is reasonable to ask him wtf did he do with his life? "Serious dad, like you didnt even set me up for life with a family business, du-uh"

You are not even lucky. You deserve a free ride. I dont know what it is exactly, but i KNOW that there is something soo special about you. You are better than most and if anything, i am concerned that your father hasnt given you enough, Mercedes are perceived as s**t cars in Europe and I passionately believe you deserve much better.

See this is the type of attitude I am talking about, too many people on the left are obsessed with comparing themselves to other people and than get upset when they compare themselves too someone who has more money than they do.

How much money I do or don't have has not impacted you in anyway, the money I have and will get from my dad has been accumulated by my dad performing voluntary transactions with clients in exchange for goods and services. That money has not been stolen from you so stop being jealous.