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2018 Rolling All Australian Team

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Sweet Jesus said:
That's a weird question.

It should be anchored in reality, thereby reflecting the way teams actually line up in a given year.

Very few teams field two ruckmen in 2018. So why would there be two ruckmen in the AA side?

I'm not sure what you mean by "the limitations of team management". There's no inherent obstacle preventing teams playing two ruckmen. But most choose not to. So picking two AA ruckmen would be unrepresentative of AFL this year.
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Yes there is. There's not enough talented ruckmen in the league for teams to play 18 ruckmen. Richmond don't have another ruckmen besides Nankervis who is even remotely AFL level. I mean there's barely enough KPFs for everyone to have two proper KPFs, what makes you think there's enough for two ruckmen to be common?
 
Richo83 said:
Yes there is. There's not enough talented ruckmen in the league for teams to play 18 ruckmen
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Sorry what? Why would a team play 18 ruckmen?

Richo83 said:
Richmond don't have another ruckmen besides Nankervis who is even remotely AFL level.
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That is not an inherent obstacle. That is something that affects Richmond – and it's by choice. They could pick Soldo every week if they wanted to. But they choose not to.

Richo83 said:
I mean there's barely enough KPFs for everyone to have two proper KPFs, what makes you think there's enough for two ruckmen to be common?
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I'd suggest there are at least two ruckmen on most lists. But most teams just choose not to pick both.

Ultimately, the game has become more demanding in terms of big men needing to cover the ground, so clubs have made decisions about team balance.
 
Richo83 said:
It can be done. West Coast rucked with a combination of Seaby and Cox in one of their grand final years. I think Gawn's clone would be a fairly handy forward and would stretch defences. And whilst I know a lot of people disagree, this AA team doesn't have to be a team which can naturally win games or be the best designed team for a season. It's supposed to acknowledge all the different types of players in the league, especially the best ones. Given we've got a few gun ruckmen who have emerged, why not acknowledge them, especially as the banning of the third up rule has made gun ruckmen more relevant? The team called: "the team most realistic/most likely to win the most games" is, in my opinion, different to what the AA teams have generally been anyway.
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2006 was a lifetime ago in AFL terms.

Seaby played 26% of game time, Steven Armstrong 53. Neither were injured, this was just the tactics of the day. No one is going into the 2018 GF intending to play any player 1/4 of the game.

Richo83 said:
Sure, but I wouldn't rule it out on principle which is what I feel sweet jesus is doing with their "that's not how teams play" talk. I don't have a problem with the second best ruck getting the fourth interchange spot if they are deemed to be one of the best who don't naturally fit into a position in the starting 18. To me, that's what the interchange bench on this team should be anyway.
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Sweet Jesus gonna Sweet Jesus. I didn't rule it out either, so I'm not sure what I'm responding to here. Petrie made it a few years back. What team ever picks a spare key forward on the bench?
 
Sweet Jesus said:
That is not an inherent obstacle. That is something that affects Richmond – and it's by choice. They could pick Soldo every week if they wanted to. But they choose not to.

I'd suggest there are at least two ruckmen on most lists. But most teams just choose not to pick both.
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That's my point, teams have ruckmen but don't have two gun ruckmen. The AA selectors can select anyone they want, so why would they be limited by the selection criteria of every team's selection panel, who can only select players from their respective lists?

Sweet Jesus said:
Ultimately, the game has become more demanding in terms of big men needing to cover the ground, so clubs have made decisions about team balance.
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I'm aware, I'm also aware that, for instance, Grundy averages 22 touches per game and can easily be considered another midfielder.
 

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Scotland said:
Sweet Jesus gonna Sweet Jesus. I didn't rule it out either, so I'm not sure what I'm responding to here. Petrie made it a few years back. What team ever picks a spare key forward on the bench?
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Which is why we have to admit that the selectors kinda just follow the rules until they find someone who they need to shoehorn into the team in which the rules are abandoned. Kinda makes the whole debate about rules redundant.
 
Sweet Jesus said:
Sorry what? Why would a team play 18 ruckmen?

That is not an inherent obstacle. That is something that affects Richmond – and it's by choice. They could pick Soldo every week if they wanted to. But they choose not to.

I'd suggest there are at least two ruckmen on most lists. But most teams just choose not to pick both.

Ultimately, the game has become more demanding in terms of big men needing to cover the ground, so clubs have made decisions about team balance.
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IIRC Adam Goodes player ruck sometimes. 22 Adam Goodes clones would win the Premiership in a stomp (and subsequently attempt to solve the middle east).

Extrapolating this out, is it so unreasonable to think a hyperathletic type group of ruckmen could form a decent team? Imagine 22 nicnats!
 
The All Australian team is a compromise between a national team and a best 22. They select as far as practical, the best 22 players in the league, as they perceive them to be, and try to shoe horn them into a fake team. Having to make a team forces them to make compromises. If the best 22 players do not include a ruckman, they pick the best ruckman, and force one of the 22 out. Every time they bring in a player on the basis of filling a position who isn't best 22, a player who deserves to be considered best 22 is forced out.

They usually only select 1 ruckman, because the comp rarely has 2 that are best 22 players in the comp, and they are not going to force out 2 players just to name 2 rucks.

It is the reason the team often has to many key forwards, they are unwilling to drop to many best 22 players, and if they have a forward line with 4 CHFs, they just squeeze them in. It doesn't matter the forward line is unbalanced, as they are not actually playing anyone. It is actually absurd if you think about it that a player considered one of the best 6 forwards in the comp could miss out on selection for `team balance` on a team that never plays. Ditto, midfielders. usually has midfielders everywhere, because they figure highly in best player lists, so got to squeeze them in, cannot leave them out for a rebounding defender who might be better in that position, but who isn't a best 22 player.

It isnt a real team, it is a quasi best 22 disguised as a team, normal selection rules do not apply.
 
If their was an actual international team that was very good for an Australian team to play against, I guarantee the national team would look nothing like the all Australian team, because then you do have to consider, who shuts down their play makers? Who provides pressure in the forward line, is the balance of inside grunt and outside run right?
 
scott_the_man said:
Ben Brown vs Andrews this weekend. The current AA full forward vs fullback. Will be interesting to see who wins that battle.
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You can be sure there will be two defenders on Brown.
 

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Sweet Jesus said:
Do you read what you write before you post?

"That's my point! Victory!"

You can barely string a sentence together.

You are a staggering idiot.
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For a poster who hates it when people go for the ad hominem, you went for one pretty quick. Let me explain clearer, teams don't pick two ruckmen because not many team have two good ruckmen. It has nothing to do with some idea that playing two ruckmen is a godawful idea that would never be considered.

However, given the AA panel can select from 18 teams, it's ridiculous to think that the AA team should look like a standard side in the competition, given they're operating with vastly different resources. Why shouldn't the AA panel just select what it thinks is the best team? If it can find a second ruck who plays like a midfielder, a la Grundy, and he's one of the best players in the league, why shouldn't he be picked? Because most teams' second best ruckman is not AFL standard and is often some skinny kid playing seconds?
 
Juddernaut08 said:
IIRC Adam Goodes player ruck sometimes. 22 Adam Goodes clones would win the Premiership in a stomp (and subsequently attempt to solve the middle east).

Extrapolating this out, is it so unreasonable to think a hyperathletic type group of ruckmen could form a decent team? Imagine 22 nicnats!
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You would need 44 nicnats as 22 would out for a week because of some new rule the afl just invented like totally just then
 

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Yeah totally agree they can pick two rucks. Like posters have said, it's a team as much about recognising brilliant individual seasons as it is about loosely resembling a playing side.

Also helps that Gawn and Grundy at this stage have both had years that would be AA lock any other year and compare very favourably to past AA ruck years. They've both been phenomenal.

Add that to the fact that it hasn't really been a standout year for mids (Dusty, Danger, JPK, Sloane and those kinda players that were AA in seasons past having slightly down years for various reasons) and I see no reason why a spot on the interchange can't go to a ruck.
 
The Gov said:
Yeah totally agree they can pick two rucks. Like posters have said, it's a team as much about recognising brilliant individual seasons as it is about loosely resembling a playing side.

Also helps that Gawn and Grundy at this stage have both had years that would be AA lock any other year and compare very favourably to past AA ruck years. They've both been phenomenal.

Add that to the fact that it hasn't really been a standout year for mids (Dusty, Danger, JPK, Sloane and those kinda players that were AA in seasons past having slightly down years for various reasons) and I see no reason why a spot on the interchange can't go to a ruck.
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Not to mention the fact that a team with two rucks is currently the measuring stick in the league.
 
Wacko23Jacko said:
Not to mention the fact that a team with two rucks is currently the measuring stick in the league.
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Well that's very kind of you, but Preuss isn't playing that regularly.
 
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