Play Nice The 'all things Carlton' mega-thread

[watchdog1987]

Cripps needs to run and run fast.

Get out of this culture. Do what Gibbs should have done 5 years ago.

Dont waste your career at a club where you will be known as nothing more than a good player in a crap team. If he left soon he could form a legacy at a club and have a great career.

 

[PetterdHoisted]

Sorry to derail the thread, but surely that nickname is a pisstake?

Big footy is a broad church but dissent on this point is quieting as the seasons go by..but that's not for this thread.

 

[Monkey King]

So doesn’t that go against your entire point? I’ve explained what I meant and how context was important. And you’ve said “I don’t care what you say you meant. I’m right about it”

Well sorry to hold you accountable to your own words. The audacity of me!

The fact is (and even in court SOS denying it wouldn’t be “evidence”) that both sides have about the same amount of evidence. You believe SOS, which is fine, as I’ve said, countless times, but that doesn’t mean that the other argument is some fairy tale with no reasoning around it

You’re wrong. In a courtroom, a person’s testimony about their own actions would indeed be evidence. The onus would be on whoever was saying otherwise to provide evidence of such.

I’ve already said that I don’t believe one way or the other. What do I know?

 

[SickQwon]

Cripps needs to run and run fast.

Get out of this culture. Do what Gibbs should have done 5 years ago.

Dont waste your career at a club where you will be known as nothing more than a good player in a crap team. If he left soon he could form a legacy at a club and have a great career.

Nope. Leading Carlton out of this mess is significantly more respectable than moving to a club for a cheap flag.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Cripps needs to run and run fast.

Get out of this culture. Do what Gibbs should have done 5 years ago.

Dont waste your career at a club where you will be known as nothing more than a good player in a crap team. If he left soon he could form a legacy at a club and have a great career.

At the rate he’s going Cripps is going to go down as one of the best Carlton players ever. Legacy is not going to be a problem for Patrick.

 

[Monkey King]

Mate, I am friends with 3 Carlton premiership players. Their sons (5-8 yrs of age), no longer go for Carlton.

I have 2 mates who have owned restaurants in Carlton for years who don’t take their kids to Carlton games because they want to change teams and they are hoping that the blues improve enough to start taking them again. Life long Carlton families and supporters who are devastated.

This is a real issue for the blues. Not sure if you have young kids down as Auskick, but I’m shocked how few Carlton jumpers are out there.

This is a real issue no doubt. I’ve seen it first hand myself and it’s heartbreaking tbh. There’s only one thing that’s going to arrest it and that’s winning football. Another 15 years of this and we’re going to be at risk of having lost an untold portion of this generation from becoming supporters.

 

[citizen-erased]

I look at Cripps, who is still young but won't be when they're competitive again, and wonder is there a mutually beneficial hard decision to make

Carlton need a handful of B graders.
They will hold the #1 pick this year, and possibly a strong PP (2 perhaps?), and will likely do so next year.

Do you trade your genuine A grader gun for 2 or 3 players who won't be anywhere near as good, but will give you what's necessary to at least get the train out of the station.

I don't know what would come up on the table, but if a club had the chance of landing Cripps IF they stumped up what Carlton need there could be some good players on offer.

 

[watchdog1987]

At the rate he’s going Cripps is going to go down as one of the best Carlton players ever. Legacy is not going to be a problem for Patrick.

Id rather a premiership than that tag.

 

[Kreuuuzeurns]

Id rather a premiership than that tag.

I’m sure Deledio was thinking the same thing.

Cripps probably has 8-10 years yet. No reason why he can’t do that with Carlton.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Thing about Carlton that perplexes me. What is their game style or brand of footy?

They're not defensive. Not attacking. Not a pressure side. Not contested. Not really uncontested either. Not fast. Not really a clearance team.

Brisbane have the attacking flair and midfield power. Gold Coast have their stoppage game and tackling pressure up. They need to find a brand and stick with it. Look lost at the moment.

This is spot on. The players are confused. There's something at play here that hasn't been disclosed. A communication breakdown perhaps, or interference.

 

[Macpotata]

Ridiculous. Getting smashed almost every week is beyond a joke. They had a good run in 2009-11 and found their way back into the 8 in 2013 { ninethmond } but have just trickled off yet again. I loved the days of SOS, Sticks, Ratts, Diesel, Brown, Christou, Kouta, Bradley, Mckay, Hanna etc but they are long gone. From what was once the best club in the AFL to the worst is a disgrace.

The Supporters can't see this shit every week. But Melbourne went through this for a long, long time.

 

[SickQwon]

Ridiculous. Getting smashed almost every week is beyond a joke. They had a good run in 2009-11 and found their way back into the 8 in 2013 { ninethmond } but have just trickled off yet again. I loved the days of SOS, Sticks, Ratts, Diesel, Brown, Christou, Kouta, Bradley, Ratten, Hanna etc but they are long gone. From what was once the best club in the AFL to the worst is a disgrace.

The Supporters can't see this shit every week. But Melbourne went through this for a long, long time.

Rome wasn’t built in a day.

 

[La Dispute]

Do opposition supporters actually watch us play? There's always some opportunistic trolling after a loss but I can't see any real analysis or insight. It's the same tired cliches trotted out after every game.

We were clearly outgunned in the first half, then broke-even in the second and showed some good signs. We're ridiculously inconsistent because we're playing a heap of young players in amongst some genuine battlers and only a few A-graders. Our senior players (including guys like Wright and Casboult who never had a huge ceiling to begin with) are declining... The effort is there, we're just not cohesive.

It's messy, but it's just not something that's immediately fixable.

 

[chunkylover53]

I look at Cripps, who is still young but won't be when they're competitive again, and wonder is there a mutually beneficial hard decision to make

Carlton need a handful of B graders.
They will hold the #1 pick this year, and possibly a strong PP (2 perhaps?), and will likely do so next year.

Do you trade your genuine A grader gun for 2 or 3 players who won't be anywhere near as good, but will give you what's necessary to at least get the train out of the station.

I don't know what would come up on the table, but if a club had the chance of landing Cripps IF they stumped up what Carlton need there could be some good players on offer.

Jesus, how far down the youth path do we need to go to be trading out our best player 23 yr olds for 18 yr olds? That's what you do when you are bored in FIFA Career Mode.

 

[SickQwon]

Jesus, how far down the youth path do we need to go to be trading out our best player 23 yr olds for 18 yr olds? That's what you do when you are bored in FIFA Career Mode.

3 years ago it was “trade out any currency you’ve got for youth.”
Carlton just finished doing that and now people are suggesting to do it again?

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I look at Cripps, who is still young but won't be when they're competitive again, and wonder is there a mutually beneficial hard decision to make

Carlton need a handful of B graders.
They will hold the #1 pick this year, and possibly a strong PP (2 perhaps?), and will likely do so next year.

Do you trade your genuine A grader gun for 2 or 3 players who won't be anywhere near as good, but will give you what's necessary to at least get the train out of the station.

I don't know what would come up on the table, but if a club had the chance of landing Cripps IF they stumped up what Carlton need there could be some good players on offer.

We will be competitive when Cripps has years left in him. Those 21 year olds will be 23-24 with 80 games behind them and we will come on strong. We will also start looking better to free agents.

You can't see it now but I'm confident it will happen.

 

[Frank Grimes]

Anyway, AFL can not afford for clubs to be rubbish for a long period of time. Particularly a club like Carlton who just don’t have the member support any longer.

Richmond were rubbish for 30 years and the AFL didn't seem too concerned for us being rubbish for a long period of time back then. Carlton have only been rubbish for 18 years.

While Carltons membership could be better, it is not disastrous. Despite only 1 win this year they have broke their membership record, also seeing that 20% of their membership jumped on board after the season started indicates on field results isn't affecting their memberships. Carltons membership is still better than Melbourne, Bulldogs, Kangaroos and Saints.

 

[Worm4]

Cripps needs to run and run fast.

Get out of this culture. Do what Gibbs should have done 5 years ago.

Dont waste your career at a club where you will be known as nothing more than a good player in a crap team. If he left soon he could form a legacy at a club and have a great career.

What a phucked up statement. Going gets tough and you call for him to move clubs? Dont be a knob jockey all your life....

 

[citizen-erased]

Jesus, how far down the youth path do we need to go to be trading out our best player 23 yr olds for 18 yr olds? That's what you do when you are bored in FIFA Career Mode.

?
I didn't mention 18yo. I said fill the gaps, which at the moment is solid B grade/mid-aged players.

We will be competitive when Cripps has years left in him. Those 21 year olds will be 23-24 with 80 games behind them and we will come on strong. We will also start looking better to free agents.

You can't see it now but I'm confident it will happen.

Confidence is fine from a supporter group, but from the people in charge i wonder if the idea has even been explored.
Its no certainty to work. But its similar to what Melbourne did.

The Melbourne rebuild cost them 2 of their best.
Scully & Frawley netted them Brayshaw and Hogan (Plus Dawes and Barry).
They gave up Billings for Salem, Tyson and Hunt.

Now Carlton don't need picks so much as they need players
You would think a club mad for giving up Pick 1 & Cripps, but if you could bring in 5-6 200+ gamers of the quality of Brayshaw, Hogan, Salem, Hunt and Tyson...

You get them, you target a couple of older, experienced hands (Vince/Lewis types), then you find the best 22 players you want (Melksham, Hibberd, Lever), and less is left on the shoulders of kids to succeed. Those kids then have to fight it out at VFL level.

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Confidence is fine from a supporter group, but from the people in charge i wonder if the idea has even been explored.
Its no certainty to work. But its similar to what Melbourne did.

The Melbourne rebuild cost them 2 of their best.
Scully & Frawley netted them Brayshaw and Hogan (Plus Dawes and Barry).
They gave up Billings for Salem, Tyson and Hunt.

Now Carlton don't need picks so much as they need players
You would think a club mad for giving up Pick 1 & Cripps, but if you could bring in 5-6 200+ gamers of the quality of Brayshaw, Hogan, Salem, Hunt and Tyson...

You get them, you target a couple of older, experienced hands (Vince/Lewis types), then you find the best 22 players you want (Melksham, Hibberd, Lever), and less is left on the shoulders of kids to succeed. Those kids then have to fight it out at VFL level.

We have already traded out a bunch of experienced players. You don't trade your best player at only 23 for older players. #1 pick possibly but not Cripps. We're dead in the water if we do that. Again, we are rebuilding for success, not to be competitive in the short term.

Scully and Frawley wanted to leave. The Dees didn't have a choice in the matter.

 

[citizen-erased]

We have already traded out a bunch of experienced players. You don't trade your best player at only 23 for older players. #1 pick possibly but not Cripps. We're dead in the water if we do that. Again, we are rebuilding for success, not to be competitive in the short term.

Scully and Frawley wanted to leave. The Dees didn't have a choice in the matter.

Agree they didn't, but they made the most of it.

Tougher call. And i don't think a club has ever done it.
I think you'd be fine if you lost Cripps but added the quantity of depth you need, particularly in the middle.
Say you lost Cripps, but the return was 3x 23-25yo mids who would get you another ~200 games of AFL football, the tide turns faster in my mind.
You could do it with Pick 1, but i think you'll find less is given in return.

If it was a decision between Cripps and Curnow, i'd say you keep Curnow first.
Cripps is better now, but Curnow is a harder type of talent to find.

A hypothetical as its highly unlikely to occur unless Cripps asks to be traded.

 

[PP34]

Why are Carlton supporters acting like a priority pick is a good thing?

There are serious problems at your club if the AFL are even considering handing Silvagni a priority pick.

Very sad state of affairs.

I haven’t met a Carlton fan who enjoys being in the position we’re in.

But if we’re in this position we might as well be content to take a pick. Plus I feel we’re owed one after getting sweet **** all for Jarryd Waite while Richmond got compensation for that hack Ty Vickery.

 

[95bluemember]

I feel it wouldn't matter who we trade/draft in at the end of the year, Bolts game plan sux not scoring over 100 points in every game he has coach bar one or two.
As Paul Roos has said we are not being taught the correct way to defend - that's the real reason we are not improving.
Bolton has lost the playing group, the kids look genuinely lost at times.....

 

[demontim27]

Well sorry to hold you accountable to your own words. The audacity of me!



You’re wrong. In a courtroom, a person’s testimony about their own actions would indeed be evidence. The onus would be on whoever was saying otherwise to provide evidence of such.

I’ve already said that I don’t believe one way or the other. What do I know?

See. There you go. You go against your own points. You don’t believe what I say I mean

It would be evidence but not indisputable proof. It wouldn’t hold anymore weight if this were actually a court case than any other of the (circumstantial) stuff others are throwing around.

Yes, but you’re also only arguing against one viewpoint. I understand in your world, because you’ve said you don’t believe either, that we must believe that as fact. But your actions of arguing against anyone who doesn’t believe SOS suggest your words may be false.

Surely you must have a view on the issue? Or is it common for you to spend pages arguing an issue that you hold no views on?

 

[Worm4]

At the rate he’s going Cripps is going to go down as one of the best Carlton players ever. Legacy is not going to be a problem for Patrick.

How about today for example. Cripps gets COWARD PUNCHED in the first minute, gets up eventually and still manages a lazy 30 and a couple of goals. He is a gun