Strategy Trade and List management (Add your rumour to the simmering stew that is the post season. Edition.)

[Yojimbo]

Then there's the forgotten man who's had a terrible 2018, Bailey Dale.

Navicular Mofra, evil word navicular, your feet are your career.

 

[0utsider]

We don't have any other 26 yo A graders with elite disposal that I know of. What other forwards who can drastically improve our forward line are get table this year?

No but we do have 18-23 year old potential A graders who have plenty of time to develop. Next season isn't the be all end all, we're trying to build a long term sustainable list here. If we bring in Gaff it will be on over a million a season and I can't see how we justify that for a slight improvement on young players.
And there are probably no good forwards available this season who fit the bill but that doesn't mean we blow our wad on something else. Again, long term planning. We can wait for the right player to come along.

He would be top 5 in our goal kicking, a quick two way running midfielder with good kicking skills and can play inside and out.

These attributes improve any side and would also improve our F50 entries and efficiency.

For the right price, he is the type of player we should be looking to bring in. I think that the price will be inflated by the likes of North and the Saints though. He’s not a get at any price player....

I'm not arguing that he wouldn't improve the side. He's a great player. But as you say the price will be heavily inflated and it's not worth paying $1m+ for a slight improvement on what we already have.

 

[dogwatch]

Navicular Mofra, evil word navicular, your feet are your career.

The ships of the footy field. Especially for the fleet of foot.

 

[Tommycash]

Then there's the forgotten man who's had a terrible 2018, Bailey Dale.

I'd rather a stop-gap with a couple of years left that gives us time to develop our own. Seems the club thinks the same way.

Such a disappointing season compared to the end of his 2017. I really thought he had stepped up. Ah well, let us see what he can do after a full pre-season.

 

[dogwatch]

Then there's the forgotten man who's had a terrible 2018, Bailey Dale.

I'd rather a stop-gap with a couple of years left that gives us time to develop our own. Seems the club thinks the same way.

Not convinced Dale will be a regular. I see him as good depth ... but he's still young enough to improve and make me think otherwise.

The club may think that way for quite pragmatic reasons. That's pretty sensible, but if we can swing it the occasional A-grade import could give us a terrific lift.

 

[LittleG]

On actual weak spots in our list. Why spend a million a year on a position where we already have an abundance of very capable players when our forward line is still a very clear weakness?
We also need the excess cap space to accomodate for the growth of our very young list. It’s common sense that players under 23 will be expecting higher and higher salaries as they mature over the next 5-10 years.

So, in 5 years we might have a cap squeeze.... 5 years! What about now?


No point saving pennies for the future when we have big dollars to spend now. We will still have space for another top liner & be able to sign up the kids, in 5 years time.


We currently are prepaying players to reach minimum cap spend. It gets to the stage where we actually have to spend more cap.... either this or next, we need to bring in someone to spend money on. Big money OR that potential cap space goes unused and is lost. Lost due to being able to save cap space for future years but only to a maximum 10%. We already have that additional space available and unused.

I agree we need a top line forward BUT none are available.

We also need a quick of foot, two way running, good kicking midfielder. That is Gaff or Kelly.

We need to get one of them, IF not both.

 

[VogonProsthetnic]

No but we do have 18-23 year old potential A graders who have plenty of time to develop. Next season isn't the be all end all, we're trying to build a long term sustainable list here. If we bring in Gaff it will be on over a million a season and I can't see how we justify that for a slight improvement on young players.
And there are probably no good forwards available this season who fit the bill but that doesn't mean we blow our wad on something else. Again, long term planning. We can wait for the right player to come along.



I'm not arguing that he wouldn't improve the side. He's a great player. But as you say the price will be heavily inflated and it's not worth paying $1m+ for a slight improvement on what we already have.

The fact that we don't have enough senior players who can lead (and play regularly unlike Wood, Picken, Redpath, Dickson and Roughead) has been our major problem. Leaving it all to Toby, Bont and McCrae all the time is ot sustainable.

I'd say he is perfect for our needs and well worth the $$$

 

[TedDougChris]

No but we do have 18-23 year old potential A graders who have plenty of time to develop. Next season isn't the be all end all, we're trying to build a long term sustainable list here. If we bring in Gaff it will be on over a million a season and I can't see how we justify that for a slight improvement on young players.
And there are probably no good forwards available this season who fit the bill but that doesn't mean we blow our wad on something else. Again, long term planning. We can wait for the right player to come along.



I'm not arguing that he wouldn't improve the side. He's a great player. But as you say the price will be heavily inflated and it's not worth paying $1m+ for a slight improvement on what we already have.

Potential is a dirty word. On this year, Gaff would be behind only Bont and Macrae. He is not a slight upgrade. But I agree on price, it has to make sense Long term....

 

[VitalDread]

Via HeraldSun

Gowers and Smith staying on the rookie list
Morris is locked in for next year
Wallis and Dalh both have offers on the table

 

[revo333]

Any media linking Gaff to us or is this just all pipe dream discussion?

 

[dogwatch]

Via HeraldSun

Gowers and Smith staying on the rookie list
Morris is locked in for next year
Wallis and Dalh both have offers on the table

Interesting. I'm surprised our (eq) leading goalkicker is still only considered worthy of a rookie place, although I realise there's not much practical difference. Do rookies have a fixed salary or can we pay him extra?

 

[VitalDread]

Interesting. I'm surprised our (eq) leading goalkicker is still only considered worthy of a rookie place, although I realise there's not much practical difference. Do rookies have a fixed salary or can we pay him extra?

You can pay them extra, kinda like how teams used to delist players and rookie pick them. Their price reminds the same

 

[VitalDread]

2018:
Mitch Wallis- Contract on Table -Bevo
Luke Dahlhaus- Contract on Table- Bevo
Tom Campbell- Will be traded (me)
Tom Liberatore- Contract on Table- reported by club and myself
Mitch Honeychurch- Delisted
Jordan Roughead- Dogs hope to offer one year deal - me
Shane Biggs- Traded
Tory Dickson- One year mini contract
Kieran Collins- Dogs may look to rookie Collins- Me
Dale Morris- Signed for next year- HS- Bevo
Lin Jong- Offer on table for 1 year plus trigger- me
Brad Lynch (R)- Promoted
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)- Kept on Rookie
Billy Gowers (R)- Kept on Rookie
Roarke Smith (R)- Kept on Rookie


Dogs will be adding West, Khamis, Lynch in the draft, Rookie selection: Collins, Cat B Selection: Dawson Chatfield

 

[VitalDread]

Reckon Bont new contract will be back loaded up to 1.5mil a year

 

[fronkalicious]

I’m not completely sold on Gowers yet.

 

[dogwatch]

I’m not completely sold on Gowers yet.

Agree. I'm happy he's going OK but I don't think his ceiling is as high as other blokes around his age ... like Greene who I compared him to the other day.

 

[Tommycash]

Interesting. I'm surprised our (eq) leading goalkicker is still only considered worthy of a rookie place, although I realise there's not much practical difference. Do rookies have a fixed salary or can we pay him extra?

I suppose the fact we can do it without affecting their wage is a good reason to do so. I know that any payments about a certain wage go into the salary cap, so this way we get two players who will play games for us with at least some wage outside the cap. It also means we don't need to cut so deeply if we don't want to. While I suppose it sucks a bit for the player (less security), if they back themselves in and are happy to do it, it seems advantageous to the club for it to happen.

 

[dogwatch]

I suppose the fact we can do it without affecting their wage is a good reason to do so. I know that any payments about a certain wage go into the salary cap, so this way we get two players who will play games for us with at least some wage outside the cap. It also means we don't need to cut so deeply if we don't want to. While I suppose it sucks a bit for the player (less security), if they back themselves in and are happy to do it, it seems advantageous to the club for it to happen.

Don't quite follow you, TC. Are you saying the rookie salary is outside the TPP (cap)?

 

[fronkalicious]

Agree. I'm happy he's going OK but I don't think his ceiling is as high as other blokes around his age ... like Greene who I compared him to the other day.

I’d take Greene ahead of gowers at this stage as well.

 

[Mofra]

I’d take Greene ahead of gowers at this stage as well.

Tough crowd.
I'm all aboard the Gowers train. Toot toot!

Swagger matters.

 

[Nath09]

2018:
Mitch Wallis- Contract on Table -Bevo
Luke Dahlhaus- Contract on Table- Bevo
Tom Campbell- Will be traded (me)
Tom Liberatore- Contract on Table- reported by club and myself
Mitch Honeychurch- Delisted
Jordan Roughead- Dogs hope to offer one year deal - me
Shane Biggs- Traded
Tory Dickson- One year mini contract
Kieran Collins- Dogs may look to rookie Collins- Me
Dale Morris- Signed for next year- HS- Bevo
Lin Jong- Offer on table for 1 year plus trigger- me
Brad Lynch (R)- Promoted
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)- Kept on Rookie
Billy Gowers (R)- Kept on Rookie
Roarke Smith (R)- Kept on Rookie


Dogs will be adding West, Khamis, Lynch in the draft, Rookie selection: Collins, Cat B Selection: Dawson Chatfield

Sorry VD, might be a silly question but what’s a mini-contract?

 

[Tommycash]

Don't quite follow you, TC. Are you saying the rookie salary is outside the TPP (cap)?

My understanding that at least a portion (I believe the minimum wage) is outside the total player payments for a club, but struggling to find anything to back it up.

There is this mention in an article by Call Twomey:

"Losing the rookie list and extending the senior list to make it one entity would require a salary cap boost, which is expected to come via the next broadcast rights deal (to start in 2017). At the moment, there are varying and complex rules relating to how much of a rookie's salary goes into the total player payments, if at all."

http://www.nmfc.com.au/news/2015-04-21/afl-rookie-list-debate

Some people on Bigfooty, who I won't claim to be verifiable also have this to say, which does agree with the potentially complicated nature of Rookie Payments and the TPP.

All payments to players ... are included in the salary cap. I think the only exception is half of any amount paid to a veteran is outside the cap, and the base rookie wage (excl AFL match payments) is also outside the cap.

Match payments to rookies who are replacing injured players are excluded as well from memory.

Oh wait! I found it in the collective bargaining agreement:

Clause 10. Total Player Payments

"In calculation of the Total Player Payments for each AFL Club, the following payments will not be taken into account:"

(iii) the Football Payments made to a Rookie temporarily promoted to the Primary List of an AFL Club to replace a Player transferred to the Long Term Injury List;
(ix) Football Payments to Rookie Players except to the extent that this Agreement provides otherwise;

And it only gets more complex from there. But yes, in a drawn out answer, some of a Rookie's wage at least is outside the cap.

 

[Palace03]

Don't understand the cap worries, we should have plenty. Last year we lost Stringer, Bob and Moyd, conservatively that should be about $1.2 million in cap space right there, while only replacing it with Trengove and Crozier $400k each roughly. Add to this the fact Boyds wage is getting smaller every year and his new deal will be lucky to be half his current one, and we have already signed up other valuable players in Mcrea, McLean and JJ. Provided its doesn't compromise Bont's new deal go and get Gaff if its at $1 million max. Take a chance to get back to the top, we did with Boyd and it won us a flag.

 

[jdz101]

2018:
Mitch Wallis- Contract on Table -Bevo
Luke Dahlhaus- Contract on Table- Bevo
Tom Campbell- Will be traded (me)
Tom Liberatore- Contract on Table- reported by club and myself
Mitch Honeychurch- Delisted
Jordan Roughead- Dogs hope to offer one year deal - me
Shane Biggs- Traded
Tory Dickson- One year mini contract
Kieran Collins- Dogs may look to rookie Collins- Me
Dale Morris- Signed for next year- HS- Bevo
Lin Jong- Offer on table for 1 year plus trigger- me
Brad Lynch (R)- Promoted
Nathan Mullenger-McHugh (R)- Kept on Rookie
Billy Gowers (R)- Kept on Rookie
Roarke Smith (R)- Kept on Rookie


Dogs will be adding West, Khamis, Lynch in the draft, Rookie selection: Collins, Cat B Selection: Dawson Chatfield

I like it when you do the thing with the typing and the words

 

[dogwatch]

Tough crowd.
I'm all aboard the Gowers train. Toot toot!

Swagger matters.

Mexican girl response is the obvious one!