List Mgmt. Trade & F/A - 2018/2019 - Part 2!

[legendstatus]

Dead serious, he's a gun lock down defender. Get over it.

Gun defender, now really serious?


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[Scodog10]

From my perspective on older types Harbrow and Westhoff are two that interest me. I don’t really get the interest in Thompson because he’s a Langdon/ Shaz type that does his best work when allowed to free wheel a bit. Also Knightmare stick to the draft

Dunn was hurt round 17?

Being a huge man would make the timing for a come back even longer.

Dont think we will see him next year unfortunately.

It was Rd 15, but let’s go by dates so June 30. Without setback the turnaround for players is down to 9 months with outliers on either side in Natanui and Goldsack. Using dates 9 months is March 30, but it largely depends on adherence to rehab and when they return to full training. I’m confident he’ll be back by mid year at the latest.

 

[Thefly38]

From my perspective on older types Harbrow and Westhoff are two that interest me. I don’t really get the interest in Thompson because he’s a Langdon/ Shaz type that does his best work when allowed to free wheel a bit. Also Knightmare stick to the draft

Solid post both those guys improve our side instantly imo . Westhoff can pinch hit ruck as well leaving cox forward as that monster target that we can work off maybe a Jack Lonie excels under him. Harbrow seems very level headed and brings both drive and experience to the backline.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Someone also posted Aish could be converted to HB? I'd also look at Phillips.

Wonder if we can get that Quaynor kid?

 

[sr36]

From my perspective on older types Harbrow and Westhoff are two that interest me. .

Definitely agree on Westhoff. He's a pretty unique player, although I can't see him leaving Port. Harbrow's a nice player, but nothing special. I'd prefer to see us go to the draft.

 

[nahnah]

Jake Lloyd would be a good fit, Harbrow would be ok but he’s nearing the end and it’s showing a bit.
Can’t see Westhoff leaving Port

 

[Bored_Pie]

Gun defender, now really serious?


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No it seems you struggle with common English.

Gun lock down defender.

 

[Bored_Pie]

Harbrow would be a nice get considering Murray won't be playing next year.

Quaynor round 1.

 

[soreplums]

From my perspective on older types Harbrow and Westhoff are two that interest me. I don’t really get the interest in Thompson because he’s a Langdon/ Shaz type that does his best work when allowed to free wheel a bit. Also Knightmare stick to the draft



It was Rd 15, but let’s go by dates so June 30. Without setback the turnaround for players is down to 9 months with outliers on either side in Natanui and Goldsack. Using dates 9 months is March 30, but it largely depends on adherence to rehab and when they return to full training. I’m confident he’ll be back by mid year at the latest.

I was about to post that we should consider Westhoff. Could be handy once the forward line and around the ground. Offers flexibility and Port need to reboot.

 

[Bored_Pie]

We went after Harbrow last year.

 

[Thefly38]

We went after Harbrow last year.

He’s actually the one that seems settled at the suns if that’s possible.

 

[Scodog10]

Solid post both those guys improve our side instantly imo . Westhoff can pinch hit ruck as well leaving cox forward as that monster target that we can work off maybe a Jack Lonie excels under him. Harbrow seems very level headed and brings both drive and experience to the backline.

Not so keen on Lonie myself and had a back and forward with Apex about him a few weeks back so can you sell him to me? How does he improve us ahead of what we already have? Personally I like Harbrow because he makes shit happen and Westhoff is just a damn good footballer (his numbers are every bit as impressive as JDG’s this year, IMO). I just don’t see it as much with Lonie especially if we retain Elliott.

 

[Thefly38]

Not so keen on Lonie myself and had a back and forward with Apex about him a few weeks back so can you sell him to me? How does he improve us ahead of what we already have? Personally I like Harbrow because he makes shit happen and Westhoff is just a damn good footballer (his numbers are every bit as impressive as JDG’s this year, IMO). I just don’t see it as much with Lonie especially if we retain Elliott.

I don’t see the need for Lonie, should of qualified that it’s just that we were linked to him by some so was attempting to draw a reason why and how he may fit.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Someone also posted Aish could be converted to HB? I'd also look at Phillips.

im not sure if i want Phillips deep in defence on a man for long periods of time, which will happen abit when played down back.

Im a Phillips fan but he’s definitely most useful pumping out K’s out on the wing, he’s also a goalkicker so that part of his game will disappear.

 

[Quicky]

From my perspective on older types Harbrow and Westhoff are two that interest me. I don’t really get the interest in Thompson because he’s a Langdon/ Shaz type that does his best work when allowed to free wheel a bit. Also Knightmare stick to the draft



It was Rd 15, but let’s go by dates so June 30. Without setback the turnaround for players is down to 9 months with outliers on either side in Natanui and Goldsack. Using dates 9 months is March 30, but it largely depends on adherence to rehab and when they return to full training. I’m confident he’ll be back by mid year at the latest.

I was thinking the same about Westhoff last night. He's the only Port player firing a shot. Wines sits there remonstrating with umps about frees he thinks he deserves. While Westhoff just gets on with it. He should be their captain. I'd be very open to getting him if we can because he is such a well rounded player. He covers the ground, tackles, presents again and again and can take a good forward mark. And he can play ruck. He'd be an excellent get.

I like Harbrow also. It'd be good to get a Cairns player on the list again. We havent had one since Yagmoor. But he can seriously play too. I do reckon we probably back in Quaynor and Appleby. But Harbrow could be a good mentor to both.

 

[nahnah]

Not so keen on Lonie myself and had a back and forward with Apex about him a few weeks back so can you sell him to me? How does he improve us ahead of what we already have? Personally I like Harbrow because he makes shit happen and Westhoff is just a damn good footballer (his numbers are every bit as impressive as JDG’s this year, IMO). I just don’t see it as much with Lonie especially if we retain Elliott.

Lonie is very average, I don’t see it either

 

[Shaneprice97]

Who says no first?

Collingwood get: Pick 1

GWS get: Darcy Moore, Jamie Elliott, Tom Langdon and Carlton 2019 second round pick.

Carlton get: Dylan Shiel, Will Setterfield.
*Alex Fasolo (as free agent).

*GWS it's a trade that completes their best 22 three automatic additions in their positions of greatest need. Moore would be an ideal ruck solution, allowing him to play arguably what would be his best position, while also having the flexibility to play KPP to a high standard. Elliott helps a weak front half lacking a quality small and he can be a 35+ goal, 100+ mark a year forward per 20 games if he can get healthy. Langdon adds quality to an ageing backline that also lacks quality. They also take the pick to further their flexibility of assets and they're all young enough to allow for an extended premiership run. Losing Shiel and Setterfield would barely dint their midfield with all the quality already there and developing and able to take up greater midfield responsibility + they have Thomas Green developing (something like Patrick Cripps and a genuine number one pick change for 2019) - he looks like the best prospect to come through any of the Academies yet, already looking like the best player in the NEAFL as an underager.

*Carlton get a significant midfield upgrade with Shiel and Setterfield ideal compliments for Cripps and Matthew Kennedy who can come good. Their front half also gets an upgrade with Fasolo who slots straight into their best 22 and can be a 30 goal a year forward. A trade that makes Carlton more competitive more quickly and gives them more good players inside their best 22 which has been other than their midfield their other major issue.

*Collingwood get Lukosius. And don't have a lot to cry about with Moore, Elliott and Fasolo playing a combined 8 senior games this year and while Langdon has been terrific he is replaceable. Even if Sam Murray who would be my replacement gets done with the ASADA business, I'd be looking to swing James Aish to half-back anyway where I feel he would look most at home with his intercept marking - with strong hands overhead and impressive ability to read the ball in flight his greatest strengths.

--
Pretty easy from there for Collingwood then to snag the likes of Jarryd Roughead for a late pick and Scott Thompson among other cheap veterans who along with mature agers and players through the draft can pretty easily with correct talent ID fill out the rest of the list and see things improve.

This deal would do to much harm than good. I think youre looking at players to much as items and don’t realise the frustration it would cause the playing group if they were all shifted off for one player, when we are this close to contending. These guys are best 22 players(bar fas) who also seem to be very popular amongst the playing group, i’d rather not give them the tap on the shoulder unless they truely wanted to leave

Theres way to much obsession for pick one every year. Plus i’d rather not put all that on the line for an interstate player.

But like every year, i bet Collingwood don’t even get mentioned in pick one talks. Its just not a realistic chance of happening.

 

[nahnah]

Who says no first?

Collingwood get: Pick 1

GWS get: Darcy Moore, Jamie Elliott, Tom Langdon and Carlton 2019 second round pick.

Carlton get: Dylan Shiel, Will Setterfield.
*Alex Fasolo (as free agent).

*GWS it's a trade that completes their best 22 three automatic additions in their positions of greatest need. Moore would be an ideal ruck solution, allowing him to play arguably what would be his best position, while also having the flexibility to play KPP to a high standard. Elliott helps a weak front half lacking a quality small and he can be a 35+ goal, 100+ mark a year forward per 20 games if he can get healthy. Langdon adds quality to an ageing backline that also lacks quality. They also take the pick to further their flexibility of assets and they're all young enough to allow for an extended premiership run. Losing Shiel and Setterfield would barely dint their midfield with all the quality already there and developing and able to take up greater midfield responsibility + they have Thomas Green developing (something like Patrick Cripps and a genuine number one pick change for 2019) - he looks like the best prospect to come through any of the Academies yet, already looking like the best player in the NEAFL as an underager.

*Carlton get a significant midfield upgrade with Shiel and Setterfield ideal compliments for Cripps and Matthew Kennedy who can come good. Their front half also gets an upgrade with Fasolo who slots straight into their best 22 and can be a 30 goal a year forward. A trade that makes Carlton more competitive more quickly and gives them more good players inside their best 22 which has been other than their midfield their other major issue.

*Collingwood get Lukosius. And don't have a lot to cry about with Moore, Elliott and Fasolo playing a combined 8 senior games this year and while Langdon has been terrific he is replaceable. Even if Sam Murray who would be my replacement gets done with the ASADA business, I'd be looking to swing James Aish to half-back anyway where I feel he would look most at home with his intercept marking - with strong hands overhead and impressive ability to read the ball in flight his greatest strengths.

--
Pretty easy from there for Collingwood then to snag the likes of Jarryd Roughead for a late pick and Scott Thompson among other cheap veterans who along with mature agers and players through the draft can pretty easily with correct talent ID fill out the rest of the list and see things improve.

One of the rare 3 way trades where every team says no.

Reasons:
Pies: Are in a premiership window, how does Lukoscious help that while getting rid of 3 best 22 players in Langdon Elliott and Moore.

Carlton: trading out high picks is the last thing they should be doing, no more short cuts for them surely.

GWS: just a flat out no from them

 

[Knightmare]

From my perspective on older types Harbrow and Westhoff are two that interest me. I don’t really get the interest in Thompson because he’s a Langdon/ Shaz type that does his best work when allowed to free wheel a bit. Also Knightmare stick to the draft



It was Rd 15, but let’s go by dates so June 30. Without setback the turnaround for players is down to 9 months with outliers on either side in Natanui and Goldsack. Using dates 9 months is March 30, but it largely depends on adherence to rehab and when they return to full training. I’m confident he’ll be back by mid year at the latest.

Westhoff is one to absolutely get if you could. He's still a top-tier key forward. Losing Moore wouldn't feel so bad at least for the next couple of years if Westhoff was added.

Thompson doesn't overlap with Langdon/Shaz. He's a genuine key defender. He intercepts like they do, but he also wins his 1v1s and can beat genuine key forward. There is no reason if you want to contend and need a key defender not to get Thompson unless you trade for May with a more medium - longer term focus instead.

Harbrow. Sure. He can still play. If a Langdon was moved, or with Murray potentially out with the ASADA business, he can add to the back half.

 

[Obese Arachnid]

Who are the best rebounding defenders on the comp that are gettable? Jake Lloyd would be amazing.

This is one of his typical plays.

 

[Knightmare]

In a thread where 90% of the posters overrate their own, you've gone strongly in the other direction, Knight!

If either of Moore or Elliott stay fit, then you'd be looking at a top ten pick for either, individually. Will they stay fit? No idea. But at the current point in time, they carry the least currency they ever have in their careers. You couldn't sell lower than right now. It's bad business.

Add in Tom Langdon, who has been immense for us in the back half of this year, and we're down three best 22 players (best 15 players really, all with potential to be best 10).

All for a guy who, while looking amazing, isn't a shoe in to be elite. Bizarrely enough, you've gotta go all the way back to Roughead in 2003 to find a top 3 KPP who actually turned out good. Since then, we've had Tom Boyd, McCartin, Weitering, Schache, Plowman, Patton, Day, Watts, Kreuzer, Gumbleton, Hansen. All top 3 picks. All with big wraps. All incredibly underwhelming.

I get that Lukosius is meant to be a next level talent... but to be honest, I see a lot of young Jack Watts in how he plays. I'm just not sure selling three good-to-very-good-to-potentially-elite players for an unproven talent is good business.

Moore and Elliott are the two I view as overrated within our own walls. Fan favourites, but lack the durability to practically live up to the standard they're held to.

I bring them and Langdon up from the perspective that they're uncontracted and all are relatively replaceable other than perhaps Moore, though other established KPPs can be added cheap this offseason through trade and free agency.

I'm not seeing Watts in Lukosius. His endurance and kicking is on another level. He has the practical value on match day of two footballers with the amount of ground he covers and the damage he does.

Jarryd Roughead was picked in 2004.

Weitering I feel will come good. He could still become the best key defender in the game.

The problem with KPPs taken inside the top 3 is normally the team that get them are terrible and lack the capacity to develop them. Of those players you mention, only Patton plays for a team that is inside the top 8 now, and he has torn his ACL x3 times.

If you're drafting KPPs early, to maximise their chances to develop, you want them going to a good team. If good teams trade for those top picks to get KPPs, I hypothesise a completely different outcome.

What if Watts was drafted by Geelong, Hawthorn, Sydney or Collingwood? Would his development have worked out any different? I feel we'd be talking about Watts with a lot more respect for his career achievements had one of those clubs traded up to him in 2008.

Similarly with Lukosius at Collingwood, or an Adelaide or West Coast. Put him on a team that can develop players (winning teams with enough veterans) and his career outcomes can be maximised and he has the scope to become an all-timer.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Im usually all against recruiting blokes well into there 30’s, however Westhoff is an interesting one. He’s rangey and i think we could get 3 seasons/60 games out of him.

Since he debuted hes had one season of 13 games, one season of 16 games and one season of 19 games, every other year 20-25 games. He might be like Waite and play well into his 30’s.

 

[Knightmare]

One of the rare 3 way trades where every team says no.

Reasons:
Pies: Are in a premiership window, how does Lukoscious help that while getting rid of 3 best 22 players in Langdon Elliott and Moore.

Carlton: trading out high picks is the last thing they should be doing, no more short cuts for them surely.

GWS: just a flat out no from them

Do Langdon, Elliott and Moore have much baring on Collingwood contending for a premiership? Are they replaceable? Can Elliott and Moore get healthy enough to help during a finals series?

I tend to think all three are replaceable either with players internally or externally who can be added simply.

Carlton historically have proven other than the successful choices of Cripps and Curnow in more recent times that they're consistently poor performers through the draft. Setterfield is still very young and Shiel likewise is only half way through his career. They're also poor at developing talent. If they're looking to take Walsh through the draft at 1, I'd argue they're better off trading with Walsh not even the best in the draft let alone the best midfielder.

With GWS, if Elliott and Moore can get healthy, that trade would fill a lot of holes and could even drive them to instant premiership favouritism, adding quality in their three greatest positions of weakness - ruck, general defence and small forward. While Shiel and Setterfield are massive losses through the midfield, they have a lot of quality through there where they can simply just be next man up. They've still go Kelly/Coniglio/Ward/Whitfield/Scully/Hopper. Hopper would like greater midfield chances. While Perryman can play back, he would also. Shipley can break through there also. Then they've got probably the best midfielder coming into the academy system ever in the 2019 draft. So it's really just a redistribution of players where they have a positional surplus for players who fill those spots where they have the greatest positional needs to complete their best 22.

 

[Shaneprice97]

Moore and Elliott are the two I view as overrated within our own walls. Fan favourites, but lack the durability to practically live up to the standard they're held to.

Dylan Grimes looked completely cooked at one stage, worse than Moore. Now hes strung some games together and is probably considered the best 1 on 1 defender in the league.

I think we can get much more reward for him if we just hang onto him and try get him healthy rather than ship him off, same applies for Elliott.

Im more than happy to roll the dice on them considering their currency isnt that high right now.

 

[Knightmare]

This deal would do to much harm than good. I think youre looking at players to much as items and don’t realise the frustration it would cause the playing group if they were all shifted off for one player, when we are this close to contending. These guys are best 22 players(bar fas) who also seem to be very popular amongst the playing group, i’d rather not give them the tap on the shoulder unless they truely wanted to leave

Theres way to much obsession for pick one every year. Plus i’d rather not put all that on the line for an interstate player.

But like every year, i bet Collingwood don’t even get mentioned in pick one talks. Its just not a realistic chance of happening.

I tend to think you're right that Collingwood won't be involved in the talks.

And knowing how good Lukosius is and how ideal he would be as a list fit it's frustrating.

I tend to agree pick one and picks in general are overrated. Lukosius is the one time I'm going the other direction and saying everyone is underrating him.

He's a guy where if I could start a team from scratch. I'm taking Lukosius.

As for premiership window. I don't look at Collingwood's premiership window as being open as much as it's simply an even competition 1-12 and anyone's ball game this year and next year. Collingwood haven't been beating top 8 sides, so I'm not seeing premiership this year.

I'd be looking at adding underrated veteran talent though to give Collingwood a chance to contend. Scott Thompson, Justin Westhoff, Jarryd Roughead. Target those cheap guys as free agents or through the trade period where they fill the clubs positional needs so then you can go into the draft and pick the best players there. Sam Collins late draft if there.

Players who can't prove they can get healthy? Moore/Elliott? They're no use on the injured list - so if the offer is right. I'm more than happy particularly with those two to move them both - and for Lukosius is one of those such times for mine.