Did We Write Off Hawthorn Too Soon?

[Dazzler9]

Hawks a reasonable chance to have a win in the QF. Richmond have been cruising into finals for weeks now, whereas Hawthorn have had to just keep on keeping on, grinding it out to secure a finals berth let alone top 4. I've seen this movie before.

 

[threesixpio]

Hawks a reasonable chance to have a win in the QF. Richmond have been cruising into finals for weeks now, whereas Hawthorn have had to just keep on keeping on, grinding it out to secure a finals berth let alone top 4. I've seen this movie before.

Yeah this is the only thing that makes me think we have even a millionenth of a chance

 

[threesixpio]

Hawks have definitely over-achieved. You'd have got fat, juicy odds on WC-Coll-Haw 2-3-4 at the start of the season.

Or maybe certain Bigfooty posters argued late last year that our post bye form meant nothing

Not mentioning any names...

 

[Scotland]

Ya got me... it was all me setting the pre-season betting markets and doing the ladder predictors.

Anyway, your team has performed better than expected. Your supporters, still a bunch of insufferable flogs.

Wouldn't go counting any chickens, though. In a very even season I wouldn't be surprised to see any of 2nd-4th go out in straight sets.

 

[Blackhawk42]

I had us in the 8 at the start of the season. Felt that a full season from Jager, another pre season for Burton, Sicily and Hardwick, the return to form of Bruest, Gunston, Smith and Stratton, and the arrival of Worpel (who I rated) and Jarman Impey would see us around 6th if all came to fruition.
All came true and it snagged us 4th!

People continue to write us off, but remember how we all viewed Richmond last season and early this season. A team of great role players with only a few stars at the top. Now they are recognised as the absolute best. We are pretty identical in how we are operating. A few stars, a few who were better than we thought (Gunston and Bruest in particular) and a bunch of talented kids and terrific role players. If all comes together and we play our best football this September, we only need the opposition to slip up even slightly to go all the way. Richmond are a better side and deserve favouritism, but we aren't as far behind them right now as a lot of people think.

Also, if you take the Hodge/Fagen situation out of the equation and we beat Brisbane twice this year like we should have then we finish second a game clear. They game planned against us better than any opposition did all season due to the unique factors. We have beaten or been close enough to literally every other club in the comp otherwise.

 

[threesixpio]

Ya got me... it was all me setting the pre-season betting markets and doing the ladder predictors.

Anyway, your team has performed better than expected. Your supporters, still a bunch of insufferable flogs.

Wouldn't go counting any chickens, though. In a very even season I wouldn't be surprised to see any of 2nd-4th go out in straight sets.

People whose arguments have merit = insufferable flogs?

Ok

Poor old BJK#5 wrote close to ten PHDs on the topic and you countered with 20.

He was right

Yeah but he is the flog I spose...?

 

[threesixpio]

Oops I think it was hk89

Can’t remember who your sparring partner was between those two. Similar usernames

 

[Cicatriz]

Clear straight sets exit coming for the brown and yellow's.

 

[WWSD]

Clear straight sets exit coming for the brown and yellow's.

Is this the same Hawthorn team that Geelong couldn’t beat ey? The Cats failed to beat the Hawks reserves side about three weeks ago. It’s all irrelevant anyway as Geelong will be Eliminated by Melbourne.

 

[Wesley2]

Is this the same Hawthorn team that Geelong couldn’t beat ey? The Cats failed to beat the Hawks reserves side about three weeks ago. It’s all irrelevant anyway as Geelong will be Eliminated by Melbourne.

Some people are more excited at the prospect of a Hawks straight sets exit than their own team winning a flag. Says a lot about them but whatever floats their boat.

Personally I'll be happy to see a few games added to Silk's incredible record and some finals games experience into our younger lads. Not expecting anything more.

Edit: Seeing all the anxious hand-wringing from opposition supporters will be fun for the next few weeks.

 

[Hookster]

Clear straight sets exit coming for the brown and yellow's.

Half of geelong will still squabbling over all australian when it's game time. U know, the trinity. Could even get to the human rights commission.

 

[JD888]

Your supporters, still a bunch of insufferable flogs.
.

What makes you think you can tar every Hawthorn supporter with this brush? Could not the same be said about particular supporters of every other club?

 

[Scotland]

What makes you think you can tar every Hawthorn supporter with this brush? Could not the same be said about particular supporters of every other club?

Could indeed. Tar away. All clubs have insufferable flog supporters, some (mine included, if we are using BigFooty as a metric) more than others.

 

[hk89]

Ya got me... it was all me setting the pre-season betting markets and doing the ladder predictors.

Anyway, your team has performed better than expected.

The pundits who were predicting based on hate rather than actual data performed worse than expected.

Anyone with a clue who was looking at the form line would have expected Hawthorn to play finals this year. Given the last 18 round form ladder from 2017 would have had us playing finals, and we had Frawley, Stratton, O'Meara, Ceglar, Puopolo, Cyril and Birchall expected to play a lot more games in 2018 than they did in 2017, and had a few kids who were expected to show further improvement, improving our ladder position should have been a given. A few Hawthorn hating flogs wanted to hold on to our atrocious form in the first few rounds and thought that would predict our future better than the last 18 rounds. The fact that some of those geese also help set betting markets and know how to fumble about with a ladder predictor doesn't automatically make their predictions useful.

In a nutshell , quite a few people underestimated the weight of our recent form (as in our last 18 rounds of the season), overestimated the drop off of the likes of Burgoyne, underestimated the development of our kids, and underestimated the impact of players like Frawley, Stratton, O'Meara etc to play mostly full seasons.

I expect the pundits to do a better job next year, because frankly they were underwhelming, and performed well below expectation. They are lucky Cyril retired, Birchall couldn't get on the park, and Hodge and Fagan coached Brisbane to two wins over us, otherwise we might have finished first, and they'd have even more egg on their face.

Straight sets is possible, but you know your analysis has completely missed the mark when that is your fallback position from thinking they'll struggle to make finals at all. Anyway, it is easy to get it wrong. You clearly didn't know the list very well. I made the same mistake with WC, as I thought it could very well have been their spot we were going to take in the 8, with WC struggling badly while transitioning their midfield. I completely underrated their spine. The difference is, I wasn't confident enough in my opinion (or hate WC enough) to argue the point endlessly on bigfooty.

 

[threesixpio]

The pundits who were predicting based on hate rather than actual data performed worse than expected.

Anyone with a clue who was looking at the form line would have expected Hawthorn to play finals this year. Given the last 18 round form ladder from 2017 would have had us playing finals, and we had Frawley, Stratton, O'Meara, Ceglar, Puopolo, Cyril and Birchall expected to play a lot more games in 2018 than they did in 2017, and had a few kids who were expected to show further improvement, improving our ladder position should have been a given. A few Hawthorn hating flogs wanted to hold on to our atrocious form in the first few rounds and thought that would predict our future better than the last 18 rounds. The fact that some of those geese also help set betting markets and know how to fumble about with a ladder predictor doesn't automatically make their predictions useful.

In a nutshell , quite a few people underestimated the weight of our recent form (as in our last 18 rounds of the season), overestimated the drop off of the likes of Burgoyne, underestimated the development of our kids, and underestimated the impact of players like Frawley, Stratton, O'Meara etc to mostly full seasons.

I expect the pundits to do a better job next year, because frankly they were underwhelming, and performed well below expectation. They are lucky Cyril retired, Birchall couldn't get on the park, and Hodge and Fagan coached Brisbane to two wins over us, otherwise we might have finished first, and they'd have even more egg on their face.

Straight sets is possible, but you know your analysis has completely missed the mark when that is your fallback position from thinking they'll struggle to make finals at all. Anyway, it is easy to get it wrong. You clearly didn't know the list very well. I made the same mistake with WC, as I thought it could very well have been there spot we were going to take in the 8, with WC struggling badly while transitioning their midfield. I completely underrated their spine. The difference is, I wasn't confident enough in my opinion (or hate WC enough) to argue the point endlessly on bigfooty.

You have every right to be smug mate given how much you were derided and ultimately vindicated

Sorry for confusing you with BJK#5

Both quality posters

 

[Pessimistic]

Alastair Clarkson

We were also lectured about how it’s time for him to move on

 

[Slysh]

So the people that have spent the past 18 months trying to have a dig at the Hawks have gone from comments like

'Won't play finals for the next 10 years'
'worst list in the comp'
'no young talent'

To

'Will go out of finals in straight sets'
'Top 4 is flattering to the Hawks'

I can't wait until we get back to the comments of

'Not even the best three peat of all time'

and

'that premiership is tarnished'

 

[hk89]

I can't wait until we get back to the comments of

'Not even the best three peat of all time'

and

'that premiership is tarnished'

You forgot the other classic

"they only won because they got all their good players from free agency"

 

[matey]

As a supporter could not be happier with the recent additions over the last couple years including Mitch, JOM, Burton, Dimma, Siss, Morrison, Worpel, Miles, Impey, Howe, Cegs, Brand .... that’s half a team! So many out there talk about Hawks still there due to Clarko the great coach which he is but you still need the players to do it and kudos to the recruitment/administration departments for the quick transition given the crap order of draft picks at it’s disposal.

 

[Chinacats]

Please explain what "over achieved" means.

It's right up there with the "on paper" argument.

The Hawks are 15 and 7. They have achieved what they have achieved. It is not possible to overachieve, give 110% or other such nonsense. It's an argument perpetrated by simple people.

well they’ve done better than even their coaches expectations, so you could say they have overachieved. Anyway find an argument as you wish. I did say great effort and coach . Look at my post as a positive - pretty SIMPLE to do!

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

well they’ve done better than even their coaches expectations, so you could say they have overachieved. Anyway find an argument as you wish. I did say great effort and coach . Look at my post as a positive - pretty SIMPLE to do!

To say something/somebody has overachieved is an insult. You followed up by saying that they are a middle of the road team. That alone betrays you so your backtracking is rubbish.

Ever considered that they might actually be pretty good and were underestimated? Heaven help them if they win the flag...they will be accused of pulling a "Bradbury."

 

[Chinacats]

To say something/somebody has overachieved is an insult.

Ever considered that they might actually be pretty good and were underestimated? Heaven help them if they win the flag...they will be accused of pulling a "Bradbury."

Bit of a Bradbury year this one . Anyway good luck for finals. I respect your coach a lot!

 

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Very much over achieved.

 

[The Cryptkeeper]

Bit of a Bradbury year this one . Anyway good luck for finals. I respect your coach a lot!

Forget it, you said we were a middle of the road team. Like I said, to suggest that you can overachieve is a simple person's argument.

I know of no middle of the road road team that can go 15-7. The notion is nonsense.

 

[Chinacats]

Forget it, you said we were a middle of the road team. Like I said, to suggest that you can overachieve is a simple person's argument.

I know of no middle of the road road team that can go 15-7. The notion hawks are awesome and will be premiers ! How about that?